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Double hull spills!
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Double hull spills!
Bob,
I don't know why you would believe that. I am not saying that I think that they are not a good feature. As a follower of such things, I have noted that in some of the losses by grounding, the double hull will possibly prevent a tank from breaching and maybe allow a savage crew time to unload the ship before it breaks up. Please take not of the conditional phrases. In the reference article, there is no mention of plating damage (they don't say water came into the voids), so there is no certainty that the double hull was any factor here. Since there have been three recent losses where ships broke up at sea, there is no reason to expect that the situation will inprove any where but Prince William Sound. The real failure of the Exxon Valdez event was the failure of the oil shipper to fulfill their promise to stage spill control equipment in fast striking distance to the oil port. It is there now. The double hull tankers may have a shorter life due to the higher maintenance requirement. This means they will end up in the hands of less capable shipping companies sooner than the others. What I am waiting to see the impact of is the Double-Double tankers. These are double hull tankers with twin power plants and even including twin sterring engines - complete redundency. No single device failure can leave the ship without manuerving capability. Matt Colie - Licensed Marine and ex-tankerman Bob Crantz wrote: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...KER.xml&rpc=22 I thought double hulls would end all spills. |
Double hull spills!
I wonder what caused that cruise ship to sink in the Med. Any
ideas? Scotty "Matt Colie" wrote in message ... Bob, I don't know why you would believe that. I am not saying that I think that they are not a good feature. As a follower of such things, I have noted that in some of the losses by grounding, the double hull will possibly prevent a tank from breaching and maybe allow a savage crew time to unload the ship before it breaks up. Please take not of the conditional phrases. In the reference article, there is no mention of plating damage (they don't say water came into the voids), so there is no certainty that the double hull was any factor here. Since there have been three recent losses where ships broke up at sea, there is no reason to expect that the situation will inprove any where but Prince William Sound. The real failure of the Exxon Valdez event was the failure of the oil shipper to fulfill their promise to stage spill control equipment in fast striking distance to the oil port. It is there now. The double hull tankers may have a shorter life due to the higher maintenance requirement. This means they will end up in the hands of less capable shipping companies sooner than the others. What I am waiting to see the impact of is the Double-Double tankers. These are double hull tankers with twin power plants and even including twin sterring engines - complete redundency. No single device failure can leave the ship without manuerving capability. Matt Colie - Licensed Marine and ex-tankerman Bob Crantz wrote: http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...=scienceNews&s toryid=2006-02-02T191116Z_01_N02299301_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENVIRONMENT-T ANKER.xml&rpc=22 I thought double hulls would end all spills. |
Double hull spills!
"Matt Colie" wrote in message news: What I am waiting to see the impact of is the Double-Double tankers. These are double hull tankers with twin power plants and even including twin sterring engines - complete redundency. No single device failure can leave the ship without manuerving capability. Matt Colie - Licensed Marine and ex-tankerman Bob Crantz wrote: I thought double hulls would end all spills. No way that "double hulls" will guarantee no spill a la Exxon Valdez...... there's a good chance that even with a double hull, she would have breached some tanks, considering how far up into the hull the rocks went, though hopefully the cargo tank breaches will be greatly limited versus single hull vessels. One big question still remains and hopefully won't be answered..... a 1,000' container ship doing 25k slams into the side of a tanker. How far will she penetrate if she hits between webframes? BTW all ships have multiple steering motors.... it's the rudders that are generally singular. Keep in mind "otn's law" Anything designed by man, built by man, operated by man, maintained by man is subject to catastrophic failure due to any one or combination of, the above factors. otn |
Double hull spills!
"Scotty" wrote in message I wonder what caused that cruise ship to sink in the Med. Any ideas? It would be so cool if it was an American Suicide Bomber...... showing the Ragheads how it's done! CM |
Double hull spills!
otnmbrd wrote:
"Matt Colie" wrote in message news: What I am waiting to see the impact of is the Double-Double tankers. These are double hull tankers with twin power plants and even including twin sterring engines - complete redundency. No single device failure can leave the ship without manuerving capability. Matt Colie - Licensed Marine and ex-tankerman Bob Crantz wrote: I thought double hulls would end all spills. No way that "double hulls" will guarantee no spill a la Exxon Valdez...... there's a good chance that even with a double hull, she would have breached some tanks, considering how far up into the hull the rocks went, though hopefully the cargo tank breaches will be greatly limited versus single hull vessels. One big question still remains and hopefully won't be answered..... a 1,000' container ship doing 25k slams into the side of a tanker. How far will she penetrate if she hits between webframes? BTW all ships have multiple steering motors.... it's the rudders that are generally singular. Keep in mind "otn's law" Anything designed by man, built by man, operated by man, maintained by man is subject to catastrophic failure due to any one or combination of, the above factors. otn otnmbrd I did not say multiple motors, I said steering engines (admittedly misspelled). The vast majority of ships out there have ONE Steering engine. That is one single hydraulic unit that may have twin circuits (most do not) but most do have two motors for two hydraulic pumps. This even goes for the rare twin shaft/twin rudder ship. Those that I have run have that do have twin rudders still have a single steering engine with the requisit two pumps. This new class of Double-Doubles actually have two steering engines - one per rudder. What I have not confirmed is if this class still has the redundent hydraulic pumps on each steering engine. Matt Colie |
Double hull spills!
Matt Colie wrote in
news: otnmbrd I did not say multiple motors, I said steering engines (admittedly misspelled). The vast majority of ships out there have ONE Steering engine. That is one single hydraulic unit that may have twin circuits (most do not) but most do have two motors for two hydraulic pumps. This even goes for the rare twin shaft/twin rudder ship. Those that I have run have that do have twin rudders still have a single steering engine with the requisit two pumps. This new class of Double-Doubles actually have two steering engines - one per rudder. What I have not confirmed is if this class still has the redundent hydraulic pumps on each steering engine. Matt Colie Possible question of semantics as well as aging memory. I think I see what you are talking about, but I need to check something, as I think the required redundancy runs further down the system than you are saying. otn |
Double hull spills!
otn,
If you find out, I'd like to know. I let ME/log($) slip when I left he industry. I am not as on top of things as I might like. Matt otnmbrd wrote: Matt Colie wrote in news: otnmbrd I did not say multiple motors, I said steering engines (admittedly misspelled). The vast majority of ships out there have ONE Steering engine. That is one single hydraulic unit that may have twin circuits (most do not) but most do have two motors for two hydraulic pumps. This even goes for the rare twin shaft/twin rudder ship. Those that I have run have that do have twin rudders still have a single steering engine with the requisit two pumps. This new class of Double-Doubles actually have two steering engines - one per rudder. What I have not confirmed is if this class still has the redundent hydraulic pumps on each steering engine. Matt Colie Possible question of semantics as well as aging memory. I think I see what you are talking about, but I need to check something, as I think the required redundancy runs further down the system than you are saying. otn |
Double hull spills!
Matt Colie wrote in
: otn, If you find out, I'd like to know. I let ME/log($) slip when I left he industry. I am not as on top of things as I might like. Matt G I go back on duty this week so I should have some chance to view either systems or schematics. The last system I knew closely had two motors, two hydraulic pumps and four rams (pistons) driving the yoke. The four rams driving the rudder yoke is what I want to check on, as I think these could be individually isolated if a problem arose while maintaining steering. otn |
Double hull spills!
Bwahahahahahahaha, most likey one of Iran's Naval mines. Time to
invade. Joe |
Double hull spills!
Nothing worse than maintaining a double hull, sweats, and impossiable
angles to needle gun. We use to suitup in coveralls, go in the voids with a wash down gun and spray the voids with pure fish oil. What a fun summer job. Joe |
Double hull spills!
Joe,
Yes, that was part of the additional maintenance I was refering to early in the thread and it is a a lot of what drove me to get a License instead of working a card the rest of my life. What did you work on? Matt Colie Joe wrote: Nothing worse than maintaining a double hull, sweats, and impossiable angles to needle gun. We use to suitup in coveralls, go in the voids with a wash down gun and spray the voids with pure fish oil. What a fun summer job. Joe |
Double hull spills!
That was several old supply boats, They had on average 4-2000 sack
cement tanks arranged inside the hull, with very tight voids, areas you could only stick an arm thru and spray like mad. In the summers it would be in the 120 degree range. Worse than having to hand bucket out the tanks last 60 or so sacks you could not blow out. Don't get me going about liquid drilling fluid tanks and the work involved there. Ever hear of black magic? Joe |
Double hull spills!
"Joe" wrote in news:1139086273.436449.238910
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: Nothing worse than maintaining a double hull, sweats, and impossiable angles to needle gun. We use to suitup in coveralls, go in the voids with a wash down gun and spray the voids with pure fish oil. What a fun summer job. Joe Double hulls you would talk about for tankers would be coated. The biggest problem was keeping down the mud buildup as this cost you cargo. |
Double hull spills!
Well yeah... But how long do you think that coating is going to last
15-20 yrs maybe, more like 10 if an excellent job was done in the first place. The supply boats were coated when new. Joe |
Double hull spills!
"Joe" wrote in news:1139101562.623510.275140
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Well yeah... But how long do you think that coating is going to last 15-20 yrs maybe, more like 10 if an excellent job was done in the first place. The supply boats were coated when new. Joe Initially, many of these tanks were coated with inorganic zinc ..... mistake, as electrolysis tended to be a problem. Now tend to be coated with various newer vinyl coatings. Generally these are well monitored and re-done as needed during yard periods (blasting)..... cheaper than replacing steel. otn |
Double hull spills!
How much space is between the 2 hulls?
SV "otnmbrd" wrote in message 25.201... "Joe" wrote in news:1139101562.623510.275140 @g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Well yeah... But how long do you think that coating is going to last 15-20 yrs maybe, more like 10 if an excellent job was done in the first place. The supply boats were coated when new. Joe Initially, many of these tanks were coated with inorganic zinc ...... mistake, as electrolysis tended to be a problem. Now tend to be coated with various newer vinyl coatings. Generally these are well monitored and re-done as needed during yard periods (blasting)..... cheaper than replacing steel. otn |
Double hull spills!
"Scotty" wrote in news:43e6069f$0$25070$cd3e3bf6
@news.enter.net: How much space is between the 2 hulls? SV The one I'm most familiar with is a relatively small 50,000 Dwt, double bottom (not dbl hull) tanker. The dbl bottom tanks had @8' of headroom, i.e. they were walk around, though there was a good deal of framing which frequently required climbing through limberholes to move through sections. Generally, these tanks are used for ballast, so they are quite large and there size will depend on the size of the ship. otn |
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