Beneteau First
 

I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.

Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.

How well do they stand up to sea conditions etc.

--
Adrian Smith

Beneteau First
 

'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.


Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.


Adirain, most of the folks here don't have any experience with newer
boats like a 27.7. You need to join the Beneteau sailnet.com groups and
ask there. My own experience is that the newer boats have less quality
below, but this applies less to the boats you're looking at of course.

Good luck,


RB
Beneteau 35s5
NY

Beneteau First
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.


Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.


Adirain, most of the folks here don't have any experience with newer
boats like a 27.7. You need to join the Beneteau sailnet.com groups and
ask there. My own experience is that the newer boats have less quality
below, but this applies less to the boats you're looking at of course.

Good luck,


RB
Beneteau 35s5
NY


Can't find anything on there about the new Beneteau Firsts, ie the 25.7 or
27.7.

I'll keep looking and obviously ask questions there.

Thanks for the tip.
--
Adrian Smith

Beneteau First
 

On 17 Jan 2006, "Adrian Smith" wrote:

I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either
a 25.7 or 27.7. Has anyone any advice to give either
positive or negative. How well do they stand up to
sea conditions etc.

Because there haven't been many sales of these newer boats in the
U.S., you might do better pursuing questioning French and other
European oriented sailing groups.

The last most recent precursor sold/marketed in the U.S. was the 33.7,
which is well built but was pretty much of a bust in terms of
performance (in most conditions, it didn't sail faster than a
well-sailed non-"First" series "cruising" oriented B331, its closest
B-made boat in terms of size, etc.), although the well performing B
36.7 has become very popular in numerous parts of the U.S.

Beneteau First
 

well built but was pretty much of a bust in terms of
performance (in most conditions, it didn't sail faster than a
well-sailed non-"First" series "cruising" oriented B331, its closest
B-made boat in terms of size, etc.),


A first 33.7 will sail circles around any Oceanus 331 across the board.
Check the specs, read the ratings and check with owners. They are
vastly different performing boats.

RB
35s5
NY

Beneteau First
 

Adrian, I think you are looking at the right sort of boat
for a fun daysailor or weekender.

You might want to check out this new design based
on many sailors, and being built in China.

The Flying Tiger 10-Meter
http://www.mauisailingnews.com/ft10m/
http://www.sailmag.com/boatreviews/FlyingTiger/

I think the FT-10 will become a cult boat based on the
interaction of the design with the sailing community,
coupled with it's low production costs. And it fits in
a shipping container--making it a worldwide sailor--
sort of.

My feeling is the Bent-e-toads are not going to be
very popular. 4850.16 lb weight for the 27.7 is a bit
heavier than the FT-10 at 4300 lbs.

It could be trailered with permits so each could travel.
And it's beamy enough to provide some form stablity and
useable space. I'm surprized the 27.7 doesn't have twin
rudders like the 25.7

What is the price for these two? More than the FT-10
at $44k.

I'd like to know more about these boats. If you
find out anything more, please report back with
your findings.



"Adrian Smith" wrote

I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.

Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.

How well do they stand up to sea conditions etc.

--
Adrian Smith

Beneteau First
 

What is the price for these two? More than the FT-10
at $44k.


The FT-10 is no longer 44K. That was a pre-production price and it's
done. It remains to be seen how the FT-10 will do or hold up. The FT-10
is also bigger than either of the Beneteaus of course. If the FT-10 is
a dud it will be worth almost nothing. At least the Beneteau's will
have some value being from a major builder. The layout of the larger
FT-10 looks to be better for the occasional cruise.


RB
35s5
NY

Beneteau First
 

On 17 Jan 2006, "Capt. Rob" wrote:

well built but was pretty much of a bust in terms of
performance (in most conditions, it didn't sail faster than a
well-sailed non-"First" series "cruising" oriented B331, its closest
B-made boat in terms of size, etc.),

A first 33.7 will sail circles around any Oceanus 331 across the board.
Check the specs, read the ratings and check with owners. They are
vastly different performing boats.

I don't have to check the specs because my statement you quote above
is based on substantial direct experience sailing both (although the
key sales guy for one of the two main B dealers in the area had also
noted the what he termed "embarrassment" associated with this
factoid). And, BTW, why do you think B isn't marketing the B 33.7 at
least on the U.S. coasts except in the most passive of ways?

Beneteau First
 

What is the price for these two? More than the FT-10
at $44k.


I'm not even sure any dealers have plans to import either of
these two. The Beneteau 10R

Capt. Rob wrote:
The FT-10 is no longer 44K. That was a pre-production price and it's
done.

IIRC that was the price before it was agreed that everybody
wanted the carbon fiber mast.

... It remains to be seen how the FT-10 will do or hold up. The FT-10
is also bigger than either of the Beneteaus of course. If the FT-10 is
a dud it will be worth almost nothing.

At 80-something boats, it's already a bigger one-design
class than many.

And it's unlikely that a hi-tech sports boat will drop to
"worth almost nothing."

.... At least the Beneteau's will
have some value being from a major builder.

Spoken like a person who bases his opinion of a boat on the
advertising.

DSK

Beneteau First
 

Spoken like a person who bases his opinion of a boat on the
advertising.

Capt. Rob wrote:
No, Doug. Spoken like a person who brokered three Beneteau's last year

Yeah, I bet.


... But leave it to you to start a troll
in yet another good sailing thread.


Have you sailed an F25.7 or F27.7, which is what this thread
started out as?

No?

Then why did you "troll" this thread, to share your opinion
of their advertising layouts?

We're interested in how the boats SAIL, not their relative
marketing strategies.

DSK

Beneteau First
 

in yet another good sailing thread.


Have you sailed an F25.7 or F27.7, which is what this thread
started out as?

No, Doug. But I did sail a First 35s5, First 32s5 and a 33.7. I also
own a 35s5. I also sailed on a J105 last season (just the once). You,
on the other hand, sail a trawler and your last sailboat was a Hunter
19!!! I did three times the sailing you did last summer and I didn't
even have a boat until October!
My comments were not directed at you nor designed to start a fight as
your's clearly are. You wanna be a big man, but you own a powerboat and
never owned a boat as nice or as fast as mine. You're so bitter, it
stinks like sour grapes in your every response to me. Live with it,
Doug. You own a chunky trawler. I can't imagine why nor do I care much.
I'm sorry for you, but it's not my problem. If anyone needs advice on a
powerboat or low-end Hunter, you're thier man.
Doug, you know some crap about boats, and a lot more about sailing. But
when it comes to boats, design and details on actual cruising/racing
boats I'm 100% certain you're full of ****.
You still NEVER produced a boat to match the features of mine point for
point within the parameters I gave and you don't even understand WHY
you couldn't.

RB
35s5
NY

Beneteau First
 

We're interested in how the boats SAIL, not their relative
marketing strategies.


Wrong again, Doug. And this just backs up everything I've said about
you. The original question was about any advice positive or negative
and how they stand up to sea conditions. Bart's opinion, while less
than educated, was just fine. My opinion was based on being aboard the
newer 1st series boats. I also let the fellow know that resale might be
something to look into with a major builder vs. one less known. Where's
the bad advice, Doug?
You gave NOTHING because you knew nothing. You haven't been aboard
these boats, but my small response still bugged you because it was more
than you knew. Luckily I had the good sense to send him away from here
to an area where he can speak to owners and folks who have sailed the
boat. Again, more useful than anything you contributed.
Oh, and guess what, Doug? I still own a nicer sailboat than you and I
ALWAYS will. A liveaboard is next for us (When Thomas is five) and you
can bet my wife would never want a trawler.


RB
35s5
NY

Beneteau First
 

I don't have to check the specs because my statement you quote above
is based on substantial direct experience sailing both

Oh, I'd just "guess" that the 33.7 with more sail area, almost half a
ton less disp. and a PHRF much lower than the 331 indicated it might be
a far better performing boat.

And, BTW, why do you think B isn't marketing the B 33.7 at
least on the U.S. coasts except in the most passive of ways?

Because it's out of production???? Live and learn. Okay, just live.


RB
35s5
NY

Beneteau LAST
 

Adrian Smith wrote:
I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.

Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.

How well do they stand up to sea conditions etc.

--
Adrian Smith

After spending a day on my 35s5 I can only suggest you looks at other
cheap production boats.

Find something of quality that will last if taken out of the slip,
beneteaus just are not up to the task.

After all my 35s5 is just a stepping stone, I will sell it for a
profit soon.

You all will crap Mac Trucks when you see my next boat

RB
35s5 Stepping Stone
NY

Beneteau First
 

Quit talking about things you don't understand
and could never comprehend.

Get back to work swabbing! That meets your
knowledge and capabilities.

"Swabbie Robbie" wrote in message
have some value being from a major builder.

Beneteau First
 

Sea conditions? It's a day sailor!

Try sailing one Swabbie. Boat show tours don't
count as being "on-board".

You will never catch up to Doug in knowledge or
experience. If you want to communication with Doug
try supplication instead of weak, limp, and lame arguments.

Remember Swabs start at the bottom and work up.
You continue to dig yourself deeper into the mud
and detritus.

"Swabbie Robbie" wrote

Wrong again, Doug. And this just backs up everything I've said about
you. The original question was about any advice positive or negative
and how they stand up to sea conditions. Bart's opinion, while less
than educated, was just fine. My opinion was based on being aboard the
newer 1st series boats. I also let the fellow know that resale might be

Beneteau First
 

Quit talking about things you don't understand
and could never comprehend.


Spoken by a guy who continues to try to assemble his boat from spare
parts, rather than just buy a usable boat and go sailing. Good work,
Bart!


RB
35s5
NY

Beneteau First
 

Adrian Smith wrote:
I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.
Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.
How well do they stand up to sea conditions etc.

Hey,

I cruised a 27.7 last summer for three days. The wind was between 5 and 20
kts, so I can't say how it handles in rough conditions, but under the
weather me had, I really enjoyed sailing it! The boat is really fast
compared to other 27-footers, especially on open winds.

All the equipment on deck I found more than satisfactory. Cockpit is quite
large for it's class, and it is widened in the aft to allow more space for
the helmsman. Interior is, as I'm sure you know, a bit roughly made with
little wood and plenty of GRP showing. The keel mechanism is easy to operate
with the electonic hydraulic pump.


Markus


--
ELECTRICITY, n.
The power that causes all natural phenomena not known to be caused by
something else. -The Devil's Dictionary

Beneteau LAST
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

Adrian Smith wrote:
I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.

Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.

How well do they stand up to sea conditions etc.

--
Adrian Smith

After spending a day on my 35s5 I can only suggest you looks at other
cheap production boats.

Find something of quality that will last if taken out of the slip,
beneteaus just are not up to the task.

After all my 35s5 is just a stepping stone, I will sell it for a
profit soon.

You all will crap Mac Trucks when you see my next boat

RB
35s5 Stepping Stone
NY


What won't last, are you talking about boat structure and essential
equipment or the internal cosmetics etc.

I am looking for a boat that is up to the job when sailing offshore, maybe a
few nights on board but definately not to live aboard.

The internal fitout of the First series is fairly basic but that's fine with
me.

--
Adrian Smith

Beneteau First
 

..
"Markus Rautanen" wrote in message
...
Adrian Smith wrote:
I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.
Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.
How well do they stand up to sea conditions etc.

Hey,

I cruised a 27.7 last summer for three days. The wind was between 5 and 20
kts, so I can't say how it handles in rough conditions, but under the
weather me had, I really enjoyed sailing it! The boat is really fast
compared to other 27-footers, especially on open winds.

All the equipment on deck I found more than satisfactory. Cockpit is quite
large for it's class, and it is widened in the aft to allow more space for
the helmsman. Interior is, as I'm sure you know, a bit roughly made with
little wood and plenty of GRP showing. The keel mechanism is easy to
operate with the electonic hydraulic pump.


Markus


--
ELECTRICITY, n.
The power that causes all natural phenomena not known to be caused by
something else. -The Devil's Dictionary


Was this a chartered boat, if so where did you charter it from... If you
don't mind me asking?
--
Adrian Smith

Beneteau First
 

Adrian Smith wrote:
Was this a chartered boat, if so where did you charter it from... If
you don't mind me asking?

Yep, it was a charter-boat. I Sailed it in the archipelago of Finland.
That's in the Baltic sea between Sweden and Finland. I'm sure you're
familiar with the region... ;)


--
Markus

Beneteau First
 

Adrian Smith wrote:
I'm looking at purchasing a Beneteau First, either a 25.7 or 27.7.
Has anyone any advice to give either positive or negative.
How well do they stand up to sea conditions etc.




Markus Rautanen wrote:
I cruised a 27.7 last summer for three days. The wind was between 5 and 20
kts, so I can't say how it handles in rough conditions

heh heh some here would say that 20 knot winds were 'rough
conditions.'

... but under the
weather me had, I really enjoyed sailing it! The boat is really fast
compared to other 27-footers, especially on open winds.

All the equipment on deck I found more than satisfactory. Cockpit is quite
large for it's class, and it is widened in the aft to allow more space for
the helmsman. Interior is, as I'm sure you know, a bit roughly made with
little wood and plenty of GRP showing. The keel mechanism is easy to operate
with the electonic hydraulic pump.


Now you've got me interested... the south east US has many
shallow areas, a lifting keel is a great idea.

I will tell you first that I have not sailed the Beneteau
25.7 or the 27.7, but I have sailed the 36.7 of the same
model series. Right now I think they're importing the 34.7
as the "10R" maybe planning to build it in the US. The two
boats have different proportions, the 27.7 is wider &
flatter aft... it looks like the older Figaro design.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Beneteau First
 

DSK wrote:
Markus Rautanen wrote:
All the equipment on deck I found more than satisfactory. Cockpit is
quite large for it's class, and it is widened in the aft to allow
more space for the helmsman. Interior is, as I'm sure you know, a
bit roughly made with little wood and plenty of GRP showing. The
keel mechanism is easy to operate with the electonic hydraulic pump.


Now you've got me interested... the south east US has many
shallow areas, a lifting keel is a great idea.

Yep, same here in Finland. However I'm slightly suspicious of the consept of
a lifting keel. Would it bother me if I was considering buying a 27.7?
Propably not. It's just a bit hard to think of it being structually as sound
as a traditional keel - although Beneteau assures it is. And because it's
lifting, I guess one is less likely to ground it since it's up when in the
shallow areas... The mechanism seemed very simple (in a good way) and as I
said, easy to use.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Breeze here is now certainly fresh, considering temperature is around -20
Celsius (about -5 Fahrenheit) :D

--
Markus

Beneteau First
 

Now you've got me interested... the south east US has many
shallow areas, a lifting keel is a great idea.


Markus Rautanen wrote:
Yep, same here in Finland. However I'm slightly suspicious of the consept of
a lifting keel. Would it bother me if I was considering buying a 27.7?
Propably not. It's just a bit hard to think of it being structually as sound
as a traditional keel - although Beneteau assures it is.

It's possible for it to be as strong, but you're right in
that this will require additional work in design &
construction... the biggest drawback IMHO is that it takes
away a notable amount of interior room.

And because it's
lifting, I guess one is less likely to ground it since it's up when in the
shallow areas... The mechanism seemed very simple (in a good way) and as I
said, easy to use.


A big plus. Simple is usually strong too. Question- is the
up/down button located so the helmsman can use it? That is
where it should be, I think.

Around here, people say that shallow draft allows you to run
aground in much more interesting places. Our current boat
draws 1.1 meter and we like to explore.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Breeze here is now certainly fresh, considering temperature is around -20
Celsius (about -5 Fahrenheit) :D


Brr-rrr! Too cold for my southern blood. I am hoping it will
warm up a little here so I can finish fiberglassing our
decks. This is unusual for North Carolina in January.

I started wishing people "Fresh Breezes" in my internet
correspondence about 11 years ago or so, it sounded
friendly. By now my fingers type it automatically.

DSK

Beneteau First
 

DSK wrote:
It's possible for it to be as strong, but you're right in
that this will require additional work in design &
construction... the biggest drawback IMHO is that it takes
away a notable amount of interior room.

That's propably true in most cases, though I wouldn't know since 27.7 is the
only lifting-keel boat I've sailed. In my opinion the design in 27.7 is such
that the keelmechanism doesn't take much additional space. The well serves
as a pedestal for the table and can be completely covered with it when the
keel is down.

A big plus. Simple is usually strong too. Question- is the
up/down button located so the helmsman can use it? That is
where it should be, I think.

Nope, the button is located in the control-panel inside the boat. When the
keel is down, it has to be secured in place by a pair of approx. 2" x 2"
steel beams that (of course) have to be removed when you hoist the keel. So
you have to go inside to hoist/lower the keel anyway. In my opinion it's
these beams that "bond" the keel into the hull. If one would leave those out
and ground the boat, the well would propably be damaged by the keel since it
would be more free to rotate. Btw I think 27.7 is also available with manual
hydraulic keel mechanism. I would go with the electric one :)

Around here, people say that shallow draft allows you to run
aground in much more interesting places. Our current boat
draws 1.1 meter and we like to explore.

Nicely put :D The 27.7 is around 65 cm keel up and 2,10 m keel down as far
as I recollect...

I started wishing people "Fresh Breezes" in my internet
correspondence about 11 years ago or so, it sounded
friendly. By now my fingers type it automatically.

It sounds very frendly indeed - I'll propably have to steel it and use it
myself... ;)


--
Markus

Beneteau First
 

I like the Figaro type designs. I'd trade my Etchells for
one. I'd love to sail one to check it out.

I also like lifting keels. How can you argue with a
shoal draft when you need it, and the ability to trailer it
off a ramp? Still I wonder how well the lifting keel
would hold up under heavy use.

I know I'd get a lot more sailing in, at different venues,
if I could trailer it somewhere for a weekend and
launch it off a ramp, and rig it easily.

The Figaro is just over 10' wide so that makes
trailering a headache. I wish they kept the beam, at
least under 10 feet, or better yet a bit narrower. That
wide beam is nice but limits the other attributes of the boat.



"DSK" wrote
Now you've got me interested... the south east US has many shallow areas,
a lifting keel is a great idea.

I will tell you first that I have not sailed the Beneteau 25.7 or the
27.7, but I have sailed the 36.7 of the same model series. Right now I
think they're importing the 34.7 as the "10R" maybe planning to build it
in the US. The two boats have different proportions, the 27.7 is wider &
flatter aft... it looks like the older Figaro design.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King