Big boom sheeting
 

Gaz,

Way ahead of me.

She sure is a Pretty thing but Oh My what a size. She sure as hell isn't
a vessel to take single handed for a evening sail with the Dog and
dinner Hove-to.

She sure is a proper Ketch though;

Joe? have you taken note?

Gaz, is she faster than "Blue Nose?" She looks to be. Especially
upwind.



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

Big boom sheeting
 

Oh yeah, did you see the refit pictures on his website?
They did replace alot of steel. After looking at the details of the
work it looks like they did a good job.

However the flair of the hull in what looks like a torpedo belt has me
puzzled. at first I thought someone scabed on plate, but the detail
pictures show that as an original feature to the hull. Could have been
added after the board was removed.

His hull is close to mine in shape and design, except I do not have
the cut away fore foot and I have a bow that fares a bit more to keep
the decks dryer . I hope my bilge will last another 40 yrs before I
have to go thru a yard and deal with replacing plating.

I also wonder why they decided to remove the board, cost to much to
replace the trunk I guess. She'd stand up allot straiter .

And I wonder what they used for ballast?

Still it's a very cool boat I'd love to sail on. She's a lot sleeker
and faster than the Elissa here in Galveston.

http://www.mindspring.com/~lindysisk.../elissa5-l.jpg

She's another fine steel hull..

Joe

Big boom sheeting
 

Thom Stewart wrote:
Gaz,

Way ahead of me.

She sure is a Pretty thing but Oh My what a size. She sure as hell isn't
a vessel to take single handed for a evening sail with the Dog and
dinner Hove-to.

She sure is a proper Ketch though;

Joe? have you taken note?

Gaz, is she faster than "Blue Nose?" She looks to be. Especially
upwind.



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

I think the Bluenose was faster beam reaching (15+ knots) but with her
big kite Oriole has hit 18 running (legend has it). She is not very
weatherly and needs to be 50+ degrees off the wind to hit 10 knots.
I have often seen 14 knots. Scary though.

Big boom sheeting
 

Joe wrote:
Oh yeah, did you see the refit pictures on his website?
They did replace alot of steel. After looking at the details of the
work it looks like they did a good job.

However the flair of the hull in what looks like a torpedo belt has me
puzzled. at first I thought someone scabed on plate, but the detail
pictures show that as an original feature to the hull. Could have been
added after the board was removed.

His hull is close to mine in shape and design, except I do not have
the cut away fore foot and I have a bow that fares a bit more to keep
the decks dryer . I hope my bilge will last another 40 yrs before I
have to go thru a yard and deal with replacing plating.

I also wonder why they decided to remove the board, cost to much to
replace the trunk I guess. She'd stand up allot straiter .

And I wonder what they used for ballast?

Still it's a very cool boat I'd love to sail on. She's a lot sleeker
and faster than the Elissa here in Galveston.

http://www.mindspring.com/~lindysisk.../elissa5-l.jpg

She's another fine steel hull..

Joe

The board was removed early in her life as was the top 25 feet of main
mast. She originally had cement and steel punchings for ballast but
that was replaced 3 years ago with lead pigs. She is much stiffer now
than before. I have sailed her in both configurations. We did a
complete inclining experiment with her in 2002 and the C of G dropped
almost 2 feet when the lead was put in.

With respect to the replaced steel, the corrosion was from the inside
out. I guess that in 1921 they didn't have great paint and preservation
of steel and the corrosion from sweating was extensive. Now we have
insulated it so it should last another 85 years.

Big boom sheeting
 

Gary wrote:
The board was removed early in her life as was the top 25 feet of main
mast.

For big deep heavy boats like this, the CB is mostly useful
for round-the-bouys racing. Taking it out was a good move IMHO.

... She originally had cement and steel punchings for ballast but
that was replaced 3 years ago with lead pigs.

I bet that was expensive. But it's another good move,
longevity wise, as long as the lead is insulated from the
steel hull. They're not a huge electrolysis problem
together, but every little bit helps. Cast Cement in the
bilge is an awful shipmate, it's porous enough to trap water
and nasty gunk against the hull. I've sailed on a bunch of
wooden boats ballasted with cast cement, and it has it's
devotees... for example, it's easy to trim the boat to her
lines as your pour it in, and it's easy on the garboards.
But it's ugly stuff most ways.

... She is much stiffer now
than before. I have sailed her in both configurations. We did a
complete inclining experiment with her in 2002 and the C of G dropped
almost 2 feet when the lead was put in.


Not surprising when you're talking about so many tons. I bet
it makes a big difference in her sailing characteristics
too. When you say "complete" incline test, how far over did
you haul her?

With respect to the replaced steel, the corrosion was from the inside
out. I guess that in 1921 they didn't have great paint and preservation
of steel and the corrosion from sweating was extensive. Now we have
insulated it so it should last another 85 years.

Sounds good. I like the idea of a boom gallows too.

DSK

Big boom sheeting
 

DSK wrote:
Gary wrote:

The board was removed early in her life as was the top 25 feet of main
mast.


For big deep heavy boats like this, the CB is mostly useful for
round-the-bouys racing. Taking it out was a good move IMHO.

... She originally had cement and steel punchings for ballast but that
was replaced 3 years ago with lead pigs.


I bet that was expensive. But it's another good move, longevity wise, as
long as the lead is insulated from the steel hull. They're not a huge
electrolysis problem together, but every little bit helps. Cast Cement
in the bilge is an awful shipmate, it's porous enough to trap water and
nasty gunk against the hull. I've sailed on a bunch of wooden boats
ballasted with cast cement, and it has it's devotees... for example,
it's easy to trim the boat to her lines as your pour it in, and it's
easy on the garboards. But it's ugly stuff most ways.

... She is much stiffer now than before. I have sailed her in both
configurations. We did a complete inclining experiment with her in
2002 and the C of G dropped almost 2 feet when the lead was put in.


Not surprising when you're talking about so many tons. I bet it makes a
big difference in her sailing characteristics too. When you say
"complete" incline test, how far over did you haul her?
They didn't incline her very far, maybe 15 degrees, but they had all
special instruments set up inside and produced a set of heeling curves
from the data.

With respect to the replaced steel, the corrosion was from the inside
out. I guess that in 1921 they didn't have great paint and
preservation of steel and the corrosion from sweating was extensive.
Now we have insulated it so it should last another 85 years.


Sounds good. I like the idea of a boom gallows too.

DSK

Big boom sheeting
 

RedCloud has Steel punching and cement for ballast in her keel now.

Most corrision on steel boats is from the inside out. Some people think
having air flow preserves the hull and use pegboards and stripping and
such for interior bulkheads. I don't believe it, as you know when warm
interior air hits the cold steel it's going to sweat. I have 2 inches
of insulation with to vapor barriers and a foil thermal backing, all
taped and sealed behind the mahogany and fgb. No sweating inside
redcloud except on the overhead escape hatch glass, It drips like a
coffe maker on a cold day and must be cracked open a bit. I disagree
with Doug assertion that a board is only good for round the bouy
racing. He must be thinking of a dagger board not full keel board like
on RedCloud. Infact with the board down rounding the bouys would be
slower. The board all the way down is best to help head futher upwind
and I raise it up to 1/3 down on a downwind run shifting the load aft
like the feather of an arrow keepin her straiter.

Joe

Big boom sheeting
 

Joe wrote:
.... I disagree
with Doug assertion that a board is only good for round the bouy
racing. He must be thinking of a dagger board not full keel board like
on RedCloud.

Umm, no, I was thinking of a big heavy full keeled boat like
Oriole.

Centerboards were common on the large racing schooners &
cutters up to the 1930s. These boats had quite a bit of
salient keel anyway, but the CB helped reduce leeway in
lighter winds. Some had two CBs to adjust the balance under
sail.


... Infact with the board down rounding the bouys would be
slower.

Really? In most CB boats, having the board down helps the
boat pivot in turns.

... The board all the way down is best to help head futher upwind

Do you mean to point higher or to reduce leeway?

and I raise it up to 1/3 down on a downwind run shifting the load aft
like the feather of an arrow keepin her straiter.

Why do you need it for that? Your boat has a skeg, right?
Try hauling it all the way up and heeling the boat to
windward like racers do. Faster & easier to steer unless the
wave action is getting up.


BTW Joe comparing your boat to Oriole is like comparing my
boat to the Queen Mary. Totally different scale.

DSK

Big boom sheeting
 

Joe wrote:
.... I disagree
with Doug assertion that a board is only good for round the bouy
racing. He must be thinking of a dagger board not full keel board like
on RedCloud.


Umm, no, I was thinking of a big heavy full keeled boat like
Oriole.

Centerboards were common on the large racing schooners &
cutters up to the 1930s. These boats had quite a bit of
salient keel anyway, but the CB helped reduce leeway in
lighter winds. Some had two CBs to adjust the balance under
sail.



... Infact with the board down rounding the bouys would be
slower.


Really? In most CB boats, having the board down helps the
boat pivot in turns.

really, she want to go straiter . My board starts 1/3 aft the bow and
drops 6' and the aft end is just forward the center cockpit


... The board all the way down is best to help head futher upwind


Do you mean to point higher or to reduce leeway? Both


and I raise it up to 1/3 down on a downwind run shifting the load aft
like the feather of an arrow keepin her straiter.


Why do you need it for that? Your boat has a skeg, right?

No a full keel with a cutout prop just forward the rudder like this
http://www.varipropusa.com/resources/Full-Keel-pic.gif


Try hauling it all the way up and heeling the boat to
windward like racers do. Faster & easier to steer unless the
wave action is getting up.

Ill give it a try.

BTW Joe comparing your boat to Oriole is like comparing my
boat to the Queen Mary. Totally different scale.

My boat is almost 50% the size of Oriole . The Queen mary 19 time the
length of your trawler.

nautical triva bonus: Under the right condition you can pull the queen
mary with 8 pound test fishing line!

Joe


DSK

Big boom sheeting
 

DSK wrote:
Joe wrote:

.... I disagree
with Doug assertion that a board is only good for round the bouy
racing. He must be thinking of a dagger board not full keel board like
on RedCloud.


Umm, no, I was thinking of a big heavy full keeled boat like Oriole.

Centerboards were common on the large racing schooners & cutters up to
the 1930s. These boats had quite a bit of salient keel anyway, but the
CB helped reduce leeway in lighter winds. Some had two CBs to adjust the
balance under sail.


... Infact with the board down rounding the bouys would be
slower.


Really? In most CB boats, having the board down helps the boat pivot in
turns.

... The board all the way down is best to help head futher upwind


Do you mean to point higher or to reduce leeway?

and I raise it up to 1/3 down on a downwind run shifting the load aft
like the feather of an arrow keepin her straiter.


Why do you need it for that? Your boat has a skeg, right? Try hauling it
all the way up and heeling the boat to windward like racers do. Faster &
easier to steer unless the wave action is getting up.


BTW Joe comparing your boat to Oriole is like comparing my boat to the
Queen Mary. Totally different scale.

DSK

Anyway, the board has been gone for 80 years or so and she won the 2002
Vic-Maui. Nuff said!