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Wrong about convertibles!!

Dead wrong about the Wrangler!!!

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Ragtops escape roof-crush rules: NHTSA says convertibles can't share
standards with fixed-roof vehicles
HARRY STOFFER | Automotive News
RICK KRANZ | Automotive News
Posted Date: 11/9/05
Federal regulators want stronger vehicle roofs to protect people in rollover
crashes, but they have no plan to protect occupants of convertibles.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says it cannot hold
convertibles, including retractable hardtops, to the same roof-crush
requirements as vehicles with fixed roofs. The agency also has decided
against convertible-specific rollover rules, such as requiring roll bars.

There has been a sharp increase in convertible offerings in the past decade,
and existing roof-strength rules exempt convertibles. Several import
automakers have added rollover safety equipment voluntarily. Although
concern has mounted over rollover deaths in SUVs, convertible rollover
deaths are a nonissue for NHTSA, the insurance industry and some automakers.
The 94 fatalities attributed to 87 convertibles that rolled over in 2004
accounted for fewer than 1 percent of about 10,000 U.S. rollover deaths last
year.

"We've been asked the convertible question many times, and we don't see a
higher pattern of injury losses," said Kim Hazelbaker, senior vice president
of the Highway Loss Data Institute, a research organization for auto
insurers.

Safety lobbyists and regulators say convertibles' low center of gravity
makes them less prone to rollover.

New standard

NHTSA's proposed overhaul of its standard for "roof-crush resistance" will
require increased roof strength for most vehicles. The rules are an effort
to reduce fatalities and serious injuries in rollovers. They are primarily
aimed at vehicles with a high center of gravity such as SUVs and pickups.

The agency is accepting comments until Nov. 21 for the new standard, the
first revision since 1971. As proposed, the standard will cover vehicles --
except convertibles -- with a gross vehicle weight of 10,000 pounds or less.
The rule would take effect no earlier than the 2010 model year.

Although federal rules do not affect convertibles, German and Swedish
automakers have taken the lead in protecting convertible occupants in a
rollover. While there is no vehicle standard in Europe regarding occupant
protection in convertibles, European automakers have been proactive over the
past 15 years.

They have addressed the rollover issue on two fronts. First, they have
strengthened the A-pillars and windshield frame to withstand a rollover.

Second, they have engineered one of two different roll bar systems into the
rear of the passenger compartment:

1. Stationary roll bars

2. Mechanically or electrically operated hoop-style roll bars that pop up
when the system senses a potential rollover.

The roll bars are positioned behind the front seat in two-passenger
convertibles and behind the rear seats in four-passenger convertibles. The
top of the bar can in some cases be 10 inches above the headrest.

Some protection

The roll bars would not meet the new rollover standards. But automakers
offering them say they offer some protection.

Volkswagen began offering roll bars in its convertible in 1980.
Mercedes-Benz followed in the 1990 model year. Audi, BMW, Porsche, Saab,
Volkswagen and Volvo offer such protection, as does Honda in the S2000
roadster.

One analyst believes other automakers who make convertibles should follow
their lead.

"This may be one of the times where the OEMs should take the lead and say
this is the right thing to do," said Michael Robinet, vice president for
global forecast services of CSM Worldwide in Farmington Hills, Mich.,
referring to automakers that fail to offer roll bars.

Convertibles without roll bars include the Toyota Solara, Chrysler Sebring,
Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Corvette, Pontiac Solstice and Lexus SC 430.

Chrysler's PT Cruiser has a "sport bar" positioned above the passenger
compartment, but it is there to provide structural integrity, not rollover
protection. The Nissan 350Z and Mazda MX-5 Miata appear to offer roll bar
hoops, but they are not engineered to provide protection in a rollover.

"It is not something that we can legally call a roll bar," says Jeremy
Barnes, a spokesman for Mazda North America Operations. "They are two
structures that sort of look like roll hoops behind the driver and
passenger's head. They do add to the structural integrity of the vehicle,
but they are not there specifically to protect the driver and passenger's
head in the event of a rollover."

A spokesman for Nissan North America offered a similar response.

Not too pricey

Such rollover safety equipment is not tied to premium-priced vehicles. The
least expensive of these European convertibles is the base 2006 Volkswagen
New Beetle convertible, which stickers for $22,535 including shipping. That
four-passenger vehicle features mechanically operated hoops behind the rear
seats that automatically pop up when the vehicle senses a rollover.

"It is something that we think is a selling point for the car," said Tony
Fouladpour, a spokesman for Volkswagen of America. "It is something that we
think the customer of a German-built car expects, a little bit extra,
especially in the area of safety."

Intuitively, convertibles look less safe in a rollover. But they are less
likely to be involved in rollovers, says Hazelbaker of the Highway Loss Data
Institute.

Aside from their low center of gravity, convertibles often are extra
vehicles in a household, used only on weekends and rarely taken out in bad
weather, he says.

So, for insurers, "from a risk standpoint, that's pretty good business,"
Hazelbaker says.

NHTSA intends to keep testing for roof strength by pressing a heavy metal
plate on the top of a vehicle directly behind the A-pillar. Under the NHTSA
proposal, the roof must resist a force equal to 2½ times the vehicle weight.
The current standard is 1½ times vehicle weight.

Legal roadblock

No traditional convertible can meet either the current or proposed standard.
Federal law says that NHTSA cannot regulate a vehicle type out of existence,
says NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson. That means it cannot apply the standard to
convertibles.

A growing range of vehicles -- convertibles with a retractable hardtop --
will be treated as convertibles by NHTSA. That means they would be exempt
from the proposed roof-crush standard. The reason is that the A- and
B-pillars are not permanently connected. Among the vehicles that would be
exempted are the Cadillac XLR; Mercedes-Benz CLK, SLK and SL; Volvo C70; and
Pontiac G6 due early next year.

Gerald Donaldson, senior research director for Advocates for Highway and
Auto Safety, says his organization has never urged rollover protection in
convertibles because it never had a good opportunity -- until now.

The organization, a coalition of consumer groups and insurers, is analyzing
the roof-crush proposal but has not decided on its response, Donaldson says.
But simply requiring roll bars for convertibles would probably not be
sufficient because occupants' heads would likely still hit the ground, he
says.

Alan Shapey, a New York lawyer who has handled rollover cases, has sent
highly critical comments to NHTSA criticizing the roof-crush proposal.

Shapey said convertible rollovers have not been a hot topic because they
occur infrequently. But he supports convertible-specific rollover regulation
such as permanent or pop-up roll bars.

Roof edict could be called 'Wrangler rule'

The federal government wants to expand the reach of its roof-crush rules
aimed at protecting passengers in rollover crashes. But the move would cover
just one additional model: the Jeep Wrangler.

DaimlerChrysler AG spokesman Max Gates says the company does not believe the
Wrangler, as currently designed, would pass a roof-crush test.

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Read this Crusty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Gates said in an e-mail that Wrangler's "sports bar is not designed and
engineered as a protective device, such as roll bars on some sports cars and
racing vehicles."

A redesigned Wrangler is expected next year, while new roof-crush standards
will not take effect until the 2010 model year at the earliest. It is not
known whether the next-generation Wrangler would meet roof-crush resistance
standards.

In proposed roof-crush rules, "open-body type vehicles" with structures
between the A- and B-pillars no longer would be considered convertibles.
They no longer would qualify for the exemption that convertibles get from
roof-crush testing.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's proposal cites the
Wrangler as one example. But officials acknowledge they know of no other
that meets the same criteria.

Steve Kratzke, NHTSA's associate administrator for rule making, says the
purpose of the change was not to target the Wrangler. Other similar vehicles
could be introduced at any time, he adds.

Safety activist Gerald Donaldson predicts automakers will "go nuts" over
that provision. He is senior research director at Advocates for Highway and
Auto Safety, a coalition of consumer groups and insurers.

Barry Felrice, director of regulatory affairs in DaimlerChrysler's
Washington office, says his company has not decided how to respond.

Kratzke explains the rationale for extending roof-strength requirements to
Wrangler-like vehicles this way: "If a vehicle has a fixed, rigid,
structural member that's connected, it's not unreasonable for that vehicle
to meet roof-crush standards." -HARRY STOFFER

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:07:11 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 19:50:29 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

http://www.allpar.com/reviews/wrangler.html

Fold down windshield.

Yes, and not surprisingly, you cannot buy one without the mandatory
thick tubular steel padded roll bars!

KABLAM!

Commodore Joe Redcloud©

Obviously you are well versed in auto safety. What insurance company did
you
work for?

I can still find many exceptions to your rule!

No you can't! The Jeep Wrangler is classified as a "light truck" as far as
applicable safety standards. Even so, it could not be sold without proper
rollover protection. They HAVE to have a huge and bulky rollcage to be
legal.

Commodore Joe Redcloud