"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

It was one of the worse days I've seen here today
in Connecticut. The forecast winds were much
stronger than predicted, and it was cold as hell. I
decided not to go out and run any errands today.

This story that happened TODAY to a friend of mine
who is trying to get his boat down the ditch to Florida.
Names changed to protect his privacy. Minor editorial
changes.

Worth discussing.

Questions:

What was his first mistake?

What was his second mistake?

Etc...


************************************

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!" is neither my
normal nor a politically correct greeting. But that was
how I felt tonight when I stepped off the boat and saw
sister and brother-in-law walking down the marina ramp
to take me home. I was cold and soaked through, alternately
tasting salt spray and fresh rain water on my face. Only the
rigorous exercise of the past few hours balanced my heat loss
from the wet 25 knot gusts I'd subjected myself to. (I must
have looked like a Weather Channel meteorologist reporting
live in the midst of a hurricane!)

I left the Marina on the lower part of the river at 12:30 pm
with a sense of optimism. Why not? The nor'easter was well
past Montauk and heading out to sea, and the forecast was for
20 to 25 knot winds DIMINISHING. Plus a peek out the
cabin hatch revealed more light and less winds than when
morning had broken. So I made a decision to depart - with
a plan to make a final go-no-go decision at the mouth of the river.

The winds were either nearly downwind or later on a beam reach,
so I chose test sailing on no main and only a tightly rolled up genoa
- sort of a poor man's storm sail. This proved to be a good
decision, because it was all the healing I wanted. The boat was
balanced and cruising along at 5.5 knots (theoretical maximum hull
speed is 6.5 knots). But while I was enjoying my friendly
relationship with the weather, the wind and waves gradually
increased until I was having trouble controlling my course. After
a broach that put the rail in the water I decided to turn around,
lower the sails and motor home.

Well to make a long story short, the genoa furling line got away from
me, and unrolled itself. The pressure on it was so great I couldn't roll
it up fully. So I headed back to my home port with it flogging in the
wind. It was a seasaw trip into the building waves, but I was making
2.5 knots headway and confident I could get home. Then the genoa
sheet pulled out of the clew and made a dive overboard for the prop,
promptly shutting down the motor -- within a stone's throw of the
harbor!

Abruptly I was at the mercy of waves and wind; it was time to issue
a "mayday" call to the Coast Guard (technically I should have issued
a "pan pan", but under these circumstances there's no arguing the
language). The Coast Guard is excellent, but it's always a bit scary
when they ask you how many people are on board (don't respond
with "why do you want to know - in case we DIE!) We drifted
eastward neither closer nor away from the shore -- never in immediate
danger -- and made contact with the Coast Guard on a 15 minute
schedule. Seatow arrived 45 minutes later and did a fine job of t
owing us to a nearby harbor.

Damage to the boat: (1) one seriously blown out genoa, (2) a line
wrapped around the prop I'll have to assess tomorrow in SCUBA
gear, and (3) one of the shrouds (wire standing rigging) has pulled
loose (indicating how close I came to losing the mast).

Damage to us: possibly no damage to the dog - although it's hard
to project into the mind of a dog. Me? Disheartened and bruised ego
around my poor decision today. I have to go take a hot bath and
think about this some more.

Sailing is a great teacher. Here are some initial lessons (for sailing
and for life):
(1) when you're getting yourself into trouble, pick the nearest
safe harbor to regroup - not the one most familiar or convenient.
(other harbors were closer, but I didn't know them and my workload
was 100% so I couldn't risk figuring it out in the moment. Of course
I could have studied it the night before!
(2) Even when you are in overload, you still better notice the clues.
The way circumstances creep up on you is a little like the trainers'
urban legend: put a frog in warm water and heat it up slowly and
the frog won't notice the change until it's too late (MIT tried and
failed to replicate this, but the story lives not for its accuracy but
because it makes a good point.
(3) Mother Nature's is neither your friend nor your enemy. In
my years of flight instruction I was keenly aware the both the craft
and the pilot have their limits. Aircraft limits are expressed in terms
of G forces on the structure, ability to fly into known ice conditions,
IFR equipment on board, and the like. Human limits are measured
in a myriad of piloting and navigation skills, ability to respond
correctly when something/everything goes wrong, ability to continue
to function under stress and workload above 100%, confidence
and competence, and the like. If you want to be an old pilot or
sailor someday, build your resources and never exceed either your
own limits or that of your craft. Today we were prepared enough
to survive.
(4) You get life back exactly as you set it up. I set myself up to
be an "adventurer," but I didn't want it to look like this. Be careful
what you set in motion (it's not a matter of circumstance or luck),
and when it shows up in a form you never wanted or expected.
well just smile and take full responsibility for it all.

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
Questions:

What was his first mistake?

He should have left a month ago.

Seahag

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

No kidding. The 1st week in November is
good for offshore passages, for the ditch
he should have left even earlier than that.

Seahag wrote:
"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
Questions:

What was his first mistake?

He should have left a month ago.

Seahag

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

Should of never installed roller furling.

Joe

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

Bart Senior wrote:
It was one of the worse days I've seen here today
in Connecticut. The forecast winds were much
stronger than predicted, and it was cold as hell. I
decided not to go out and run any errands today.


Sounds like a good day to stay indoors with a hot cup of
something.


************************************

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!" is neither my
normal nor a politically correct greeting. But that was
how I felt tonight when I stepped off the boat and saw
sister and brother-in-law walking down the marina ramp
to take me home. I was cold and soaked through, alternately
tasting salt spray and fresh rain water on my face. Only the
rigorous exercise of the past few hours balanced my heat loss
from the wet 25 knot gusts I'd subjected myself to. (I must
have looked like a Weather Channel meteorologist reporting
live in the midst of a hurricane!)

Funny thing, 25 knot winds aren't (or shouldn't be) too
difficult to cope with, but cold air is much more dense and
that makes a given wind speed more powerful. And then of
course, being cold weakens the body on top of that.


I left the Marina on the lower part of the river at 12:30 pm
with a sense of optimism. Why not? The nor'easter was well
past Montauk and heading out to sea, and the forecast was for
20 to 25 knot winds DIMINISHING. Plus a peek out the
cabin hatch revealed more light and less winds than when
morning had broken. So I made a decision to depart - with
a plan to make a final go-no-go decision at the mouth of the river.

The winds were either nearly downwind or later on a beam reach,
so I chose test sailing on no main and only a tightly rolled up genoa
- sort of a poor man's storm sail. This proved to be a good
decision, because it was all the healing I wanted. The boat was
balanced and cruising along at 5.5 knots (theoretical maximum hull
speed is 6.5 knots). But while I was enjoying my friendly
relationship with the weather, the wind and waves gradually
increased until I was having trouble controlling my course. After
a broach that put the rail in the water I decided to turn around,
lower the sails and motor home.


Putting the rail in shouldn't be bad. Why the trouble
controlling course? That is an indication of something
either going wrong or about to go wrong.

Well to make a long story short, the genoa furling line got away from
me, and unrolled itself.

That was a mistake. The furling line should always be
snubbed or stopped to prevent this happening, especially
when singlehanding.

... The pressure on it was so great I couldn't roll
it up fully.

Well, you're not supposed to take a furling line a winch to
avoid the risk of breaking the forestay, but this is one
circumstance where it might be justified.



... So I headed back to my home port with it flogging in the
wind. It was a seasaw trip into the building waves, but I was making
2.5 knots headway and confident I could get home. Then the genoa
sheet pulled out of the clew and made a dive overboard for the prop,
promptly shutting down the motor -- within a stone's throw of the
harbor!


Ooops. Hate it when that happens.

Abruptly I was at the mercy of waves and wind; it was time to issue
a "mayday" call to the Coast Guard (technically I should have issued
a "pan pan", but under these circumstances there's no arguing the
language).

Yes there is. Use of wrong terminology is stupid. I bet part
of this is due to creeping hypothermia. When the body is
chilled the brain doesn't function as well.


....We drifted
eastward neither closer nor away from the shore -- never in immediate
danger -- and made contact with the Coast Guard on a 15 minute
schedule. Seatow arrived 45 minutes later and did a fine job of t
owing us to a nearby harbor.


I bet that was a scary 45 minutes.

Damage to the boat: (1) one seriously blown out genoa, (2) a line
wrapped around the prop I'll have to assess tomorrow in SCUBA
gear, and (3) one of the shrouds (wire standing rigging) has pulled
loose (indicating how close I came to losing the mast).


IMHO the boat was in danger of dismasting with an unrolled
and uncontrollably flogging genoa.


Sailing is a great teacher. Here are some initial lessons (for sailing
and for life):
(1) when you're getting yourself into trouble, pick the nearest
safe harbor to regroup - not the one most familiar or convenient.
(other harbors were closer, but I didn't know them and my workload
was 100% so I couldn't risk figuring it out in the moment. Of course
I could have studied it the night before!

Very much so, but I disagree with entering a strange harbor
under duress just because it's closer. If it's a difficult
entry then a mistake would be very costly. If it's an easy
entry with clear marks then that would be better. A
seaworthy vessel is safer standing off from shore than
running for shelter though.


(2) Even when you are in overload, you still better notice the clues.
The way circumstances creep up on you is a little like the trainers'
urban legend: put a frog in warm water and heat it up slowly and
the frog won't notice the change until it's too late (MIT tried and
failed to replicate this, but the story lives not for its accuracy but
because it makes a good point.

This is a good point and one reason why I say that foresight
is the most important characteristic of a good skipper.

I also think that hypothermia played a part in the decision
making (or lack of it) process here.

Interesting story and some challenging situations that bear
thinking about. Thanks for posting this, Bart.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should he have tried to make for port with a
jammed sail. Period and no excuses.

Also: His description of the conditions that drove him back home sound
like good sailing to me. But if the conditions were worse than
described why didn't he shorten sail? No mention is made of
accommodating conditions, only a speedy retreat. Sounds like a moron to
me.

Also: The furling line "got away." Typical newbee idiocy. He should
have been prepared for that in heavy air.

Also: He couldn't furl the sail? Why? Pressure? Go upwind and winch it
in. Still won't budge? Go forward and wind it at the drum. Jammed
beyond belief? Unfurl and bring the genoa down. Sounds like a moron to
me.

Also: Shroud PULLED LOOSE??? From what? Sounds like the boat had
pre-existing problems....and sounds like a moron to me.

Based on the language used and the nature of the story and author of
the original post...sounds like a MORON to me!


RB
35s5...A boat that women love!
NY

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Bart Senior wrote:
It was one of the worse days I've seen here today
in Connecticut. The forecast winds were much
stronger than predicted, and it was cold as hell. I
decided not to go out and run any errands today.


Sounds like a good day to stay indoors with a hot cup of something.


************************************

Funny thing, 25 knot winds aren't (or shouldn't be) too difficult to cope
with, but cold air is much more dense and that makes a given wind speed
more powerful. And then of course, being cold weakens the body on top of
that.

Good point Doug! Cold air does pack more punch!

It has to have been gusting much higher, also the fetch was
right down LIS--100 miles--the waves must have been like
the ocean.

Putting the rail in shouldn't be bad. Why the trouble controlling course?
That is an indication of something either going wrong or about to go
wrong.

Must have been steering too high couple with gusts.

That was a mistake. The furling line should always be snubbed or stopped
to prevent this happening, especially when singlehanding.
... The pressure on it was so great I couldn't roll
it up fully.

Well, you're not supposed to take a furling line a winch to avoid the risk
of breaking the forestay, but this is one circumstance where it might be
justified.

I'm sure he tried to furl it going upwind. Huge mistake!
See below...it led to other bigger problems!

... So I headed back to my home port with it flogging in the
wind. It was a seasaw trip into the building waves, but I was making
2.5 knots headway and confident I could get home. Then the genoa
sheet pulled out of the clew and made a dive overboard for the prop,
promptly shutting down the motor -- within a stone's throw of the
harbor!

Yes there is. Use of wrong terminology is stupid. I bet part of this is
due to creeping hypothermia. When the body is chilled the brain doesn't
function as well.

He is an older fellow, and I'm told had trouble last year in
the warm weather also. His body can't regulate temperature
well.

Damage to the boat: (1) one seriously blown out genoa, (2) a line
wrapped around the prop I'll have to assess tomorrow in SCUBA
gear, and (3) one of the shrouds (wire standing rigging) has pulled
loose (indicating how close I came to losing the mast).

IMHO the boat was in danger of dismasting with an unrolled and
uncontrollably flogging genoa.

All probably caused by the poor furling job--likely done into
the wind. Three strikes and you are out--or dead in this case.
That flogging sail impulse loads certainly damaged the shroud.

Very much so, but I disagree with entering a strange harbor under duress
just because it's closer. If it's a difficult entry then a mistake would
be very costly. If it's an easy entry with clear marks then that would be
better. A seaworthy vessel is safer standing off from shore than running
for shelter though.

It was one of my harbors. I can tell you it would have been
an easy approach if he had studied the charts. Even so, he
should not have turned back upwind. I can think of several
places downwind he could have gone and easily gotten into
a lee.

(2) Even when you are in overload, you still better notice the clues.
The way circumstances creep up on you is a little like the trainers'
urban legend: put a frog in warm water and heat it up slowly and
the frog won't notice the change until it's too late (MIT tried and
failed to replicate this, but the story lives not for its accuracy but
because it makes a good point.

I use the three strikes rule. If three things go wrong, bail
out--but you MUST have a good bail out plan.

This is a good point and one reason why I say that foresight is the most
important characteristic of a good skipper.

I also think that hypothermia played a part in the decision making (or
lack of it) process here.

Interesting story and some challenging situations that bear thinking
about. Thanks for posting this, Bart.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

I use the three strikes rule. If three things go wrong, bail
out--but you MUST have a good bail out plan.


Wow, Bart and Doug repeat most of my answers and then pat themselves on
the back after letting us know that a crapping bird in the hand smells
worse than two in a bush! What else would you expect from a
powerboaters and guy who works on his boat rather than sailing it?

RB
35s5...a SAIL boat that actually sails!
NY

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"DSK" wrote in message

Sounds like a good day to stay indoors with a hot cup of
something.

Sounds like the vessel was ill prepared to provide such basic comforts.



Funny thing, 25 knot winds aren't (or shouldn't be) too
difficult to cope with, but cold air is much more dense and
that makes a given wind speed more powerful. And then of
course, being cold weakens the body on top of that.

Again... it seems like the vessel was ill prepared to provide for it's crew. Warmth and nourishment to maintain the body are a real requirement in a heavy sea.


Putting the rail in shouldn't be bad. Why the trouble
controlling course? That is an indication of something
either going wrong or about to go wrong.

I disagree there Doug.... I don't think that way in a rough sea.... rail in the water is fine at times.... but it is totally uncalled for in rough conditions. It seems as if proper trim was not established.

From a summary viewpoint... he had equipment failure that may have been prevented. He did not rig his vessel to undertake the sea conditions and did not have adequate means of keeping himself warm and dry while in the elements.

From sailing in cold and rough conditions for many years it is paramount to never underestimate what you may encounter. Warm dry clothing for such and even worse conditions are available. Proper outfitting of the vessel to provide hot coffee underway in almost any seastate is critical. Double checking all gear prior to departure is extremely important.

If you live through it and learn from it.. it's adventure.

CM




Interesting story and some challenging situations that bear
thinking about. Thanks for posting this, Bart.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Wow, Bart and Doug repeat most of my answers and then pat themselves on
the back after letting us know that a crapping bird in the hand smells
worse than two in a bush! What else would you expect from a
powerboaters and guy who works on his boat rather than sailing it?

No Bob you didn't... you quoted book learned data and have no experience in
such matters. Your opinion is worthless. You offered no suggestions since
you can't envision such conditions and thusly have nothing to provide.

Until such a time as you matriculate to the status held by the likes of Doug
and Bart... it would be advised that you continue your trolls and in-shore
diatribe... since you really have very limited experience in boat handling
except for protected near shore daysails in calm conditions.

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

No Bob you didn't... you quoted book learned data and have no
experience in
such matters. Your opinion is worthless. You offered no suggestions
since
you can't envision such conditions and thusly have nothing to provide.




Hey, that's funny!

You then proceeded to give the same answer I gave, also repeated by
Doug! Good work! Gee, da ya really tink he wasn't edy for da bad
waves???

Bwahahahahahahaha!

RB
35s5...a boat better in every way than a Nordic 30.
NY

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

You then proceeded to give the same answer I gave, also repeated by
Doug! Good work! Gee, da ya really tink he wasn't edy for da bad
waves???

Now don't get your socks in a knot... I was merely confirming that your
input was inconsequential to either truth, experience or fact. The
outlandish claim that you posted the obvious in no way justifies your
competence.

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

Capt.Mooron wrote:
Again... it seems like the vessel was ill prepared to provide for it's
crew. Warmth and nourishment to maintain the body are a real requirement
in a heavy sea.

Exactly. And alcohol has useful calories, remember that!

I'd hesitate to call the vessel "ill-prepared" not knowing
the man or his boat or his habits with it, but it does sound
like he wasn't ready for this trip in this kind of weather.




Putting the rail in shouldn't be bad. Why the trouble
controlling course? That is an indication of something
either going wrong or about to go wrong.

I disagree there Doug.... I don't think that way in a rough sea....
rail in the water is fine at times.... but it is totally uncalled for in
rough conditions. It seems as if proper trim was not established.


What are you saying, you don't like the boat to lean over?
You wimp!

About proper trim, maybe so... one reason why he may have
had trouble keeping the boat on course is from unbalanced
sail plan. A staysail eould have been a better choice than
the tip of a rolled-up genoa.



From a summary viewpoint... he had equipment failure that may have been
prevented. He did not rig his vessel to undertake the sea conditions and
did not have adequate means of keeping himself warm and dry while in the
elements.


Agreed.

From sailing in cold and rough conditions for many years it is
paramount to never underestimate what you may encounter.

Agreed.

... Warm dry
clothing for such and even worse conditions are available. Proper
outfitting of the vessel to provide hot coffee underway in almost any
seastate is critical.

Agreed yet again, but it's expensive. A lot of people "just
make do" with lesser gear & clothing, which is OK as long as
you're not going to test it too rigorously or throw very
high stakes on the table if they fail (and IMHO hypothermia
is a big gamble)

... Double checking all gear prior to departure is
extremely important.


Agreed, and that doesn't cost anything.

Damn it, this is no way to run a newsgroup, agreeing all the
time. WTF is wrong with you? Go ahead, say it, the man had a
fin keeler!


If you live through it and learn from it.. it's adventure.


What is it if you live thru it and don't learn?

DSK

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"DSK" wrote in message

Exactly. And alcohol has useful calories, remember that!

Although I surprisingly do not encourage the use of alcohol in very rough
conditions... I have been known to take a swig of "Liquid Courage" during
exceptioanally difficult situations.

I'd hesitate to call the vessel "ill-prepared" not knowing the man or his
boat or his habits with it, but it does sound like he wasn't ready for
this trip in this kind of weather.

The story speaks for itself Doug.... he was cold and wet... no reason for
either condition.


What are you saying, you don't like the boat to lean over? You wimp!

There are times when it's fun..... but it does not provide power nor does it
benifit ground made good. When in heavy seas.. I would lean towards
minimizing green water and stress on the rig.


About proper trim, maybe so... one reason why he may have had trouble
keeping the boat on course is from unbalanced sail plan. A staysail eould
have been a better choice than the tip of a rolled-up genoa.

Without a doubt a hank on sail is a much better choice to maintain
sailshape.


Agreed yet again, but it's expensive. A lot of people "just make do" with
lesser gear & clothing, which is OK as long as you're not going to test it
too rigorously or throw very high stakes on the table if they fail (and
IMHO hypothermia is a big gamble)

It's a mistake... since you can outfit yourself completely for the cost of
a radar. I can't understand how people can go to sea and not be comfortable
at the helm in foul weather.


... Double checking all gear prior to departure is extremely important.


Agreed, and that doesn't cost anything.

Damn it, this is no way to run a newsgroup, agreeing all the time. WTF is
wrong with you? Go ahead, say it, the man had a fin keeler!

Even a fin keeler should have aced that situation had the crew been dry,
warm and suficently nourished to maintain the pace required by the vessel.

If you live through it and learn from it.. it's adventure.


What is it if you live thru it and don't learn?

That's called a Bobsprit....

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

How could we repeat his answers when we
don't read them?

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:lv1hf.128442$S4.126219@edtnps84...

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Wow, Bart and Doug repeat most of my answers and then pat themselves on
the back after letting us know that a crapping bird in the hand smells
worse than two in a bush! What else would you expect from a
powerboaters and guy who works on his boat rather than sailing it?

No Bob you didn't... you quoted book learned data and have no experience
in such matters. Your opinion is worthless. You offered no suggestions
since you can't envision such conditions and thusly have nothing to
provide.

Until such a time as you matriculate to the status held by the likes of
Doug and Bart... it would be advised that you continue your trolls and
in-shore diatribe... since you really have very limited experience in boat
handling except for protected near shore daysails in calm conditions.

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

Well to give Bob his due... he is one of the most talented and successful
trolls on this group.... but his practical sailing knowledge is very
limited. He seems to forget that on occasion. This of course leads him to
believe he has an opinion that matters.

CM

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
How could we repeat his answers when we
don't read them?

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:lv1hf.128442$S4.126219@edtnps84...

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Wow, Bart and Doug repeat most of my answers and then pat themselves on
the back after letting us know that a crapping bird in the hand smells
worse than two in a bush! What else would you expect from a
powerboaters and guy who works on his boat rather than sailing it?

No Bob you didn't... you quoted book learned data and have no experience
in such matters. Your opinion is worthless. You offered no suggestions
since you can't envision such conditions and thusly have nothing to
provide.

Until such a time as you matriculate to the status held by the likes of
Doug and Bart... it would be advised that you continue your trolls and
in-shore diatribe... since you really have very limited experience in
boat handling except for protected near shore daysails in calm
conditions.

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

The
outlandish claim that you posted the obvious in no way justifies your
competence.


So did I post the "obvious" and if so how it outlandish? And why did
you and Doug repeat it? Hmmmmm?


RB
35s5
NY

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

So did I post the "obvious" and if so how it outlandish? And why did
you and Doug repeat it? Hmmmmm?

Because you were guessing!

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

So did I post the "obvious" and if so how it outlandish? And why did
you and Doug repeat it? Hmmmmm?

Because you were guessing!

And then you repeated all my guesses as fact? Wow! I'm one lucky son of
the sea!

RB
35s5
NY

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ps.com...
So did I post the "obvious" and if so how it outlandish? And why did
you and Doug repeat it? Hmmmmm?

Because you were guessing!

And then you repeated all my guesses as fact? Wow! I'm one lucky son of
the sea!

You certainly are Bobsprit... your son is proof of that.
You have a new boat and a nice wife...... and one of theses days you'll
actually have some sea time under your belt so you can discuss heavy sea
sailing with the big boys. :-)

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

and one of theses days you'll
actually have some sea time under your belt so you can discuss heavy
sea
sailing with the big boys. :-)

You mean like Bart, who's buddy retreated because his rail got wet and
then lacked the 12 IQ points required to furl a sail? Boy oh boy, I can
hardly wait!

RB
35s5
NY

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
You mean like Bart, who's buddy retreated because his rail got wet and
then lacked the 12 IQ points required to furl a sail? Boy oh boy, I can
hardly wait!

I'm certain we all can't wait until you finally clear the confines of the
bay and experience the ocean for yourself.

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

I'm certain we all can't wait until you finally clear the confines of
the
bay and experience the ocean for yourself.

So sailing along the Jersey coast doesn't count? How about doing it in
a Catalina 27 in November? How about doing three deliveries there? Does
it count when I have crew or must I go to sea alone? Sailing in the LIS
I face no risks from weather, right? I mean, nothing bad can happen
when land is in sight, right? And a sailor's skill isn't measured by
boat handling or sail trim, but only by distances sailed, right? Is
this way inland sailors aren't really good sailors?
This is what you're saying, right?

Poor, poor, Mooron. At least his boat is as slow as his wit!

RB
35s5
NY

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm certain we all can't wait until you finally clear the confines of
the
bay and experience the ocean for yourself.

So sailing along the Jersey coast doesn't count? How about doing it in
a Catalina 27 in November? How about doing three deliveries there? Does
it count when I have crew or must I go to sea alone? Sailing in the LIS
I face no risks from weather, right? I mean, nothing bad can happen
when land is in sight, right? And a sailor's skill isn't measured by
boat handling or sail trim, but only by distances sailed, right? Is
this way inland sailors aren't really good sailors?
This is what you're saying, right?

Well we can see your problem right away... you're totally lacking any
experiences by which to compare how you sail in the bay to how a vessel is
handled in the ocean.

Don't worry .... this can be remedied as soon as you find sufficent courage
to venture beyond sight of land.

Poor, poor, Mooron. At least his boat is as slow as his wit!

Well in that case it would explain why your wit is as generic and
unimpressive as your selection in sailboats.

CM

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

I emailed him back and asked him to call be
before I left for the Thanksgiving. He did call
me back and told me he decided NOT to sail
the ditch this year. I was pleased because
that is the advice I was going to give him. I
suggested he spend more time getting to
know the boat and perfecting his systems
learning all the harbors in Long Island Sound
and getting more experience in places like
Maine, Shelter Island, and the Vineyard. It
turns out he does have 90 and 100% jibs. I
have no clue why he was not using the 90.

To his credit, he dived on the boat himself
yesterday and cleared the fouled prop. Not
bad for a man nearly 60. You would not
catch me diving this time of year and I have
a 7mm wet suit!

My other friend is sailing to Bermuda on
Sunday--I'm a little concerned because I'm
not sure he is up for it. He does not know
how to use his SSB, but he does have a Sat
Phone. This will be his "final exam" as a
sailor. Another case of leaving to late, although
that will not matter once he crosses the Gulf
Stream--it will be shorts and T-shirt weather.

At some point you reach a level of experience
where you know what you are getting into and
still decide to go forward. It is a second coming
of age that most people never reach.

Bart

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

Well said Bart....

CM

"Bart Senior" wrote in message

At some point you reach a level of experience
where you know what you are getting into and
still decide to go forward. It is a second coming
of age that most people never reach.

Bart

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

Exactly. And alcohol has useful calories, remember that!


Capt.Mooron wrote:
Although I surprisingly do not encourage the use of alcohol in very rough
conditions... I have been known to take a swig of "Liquid Courage" during
exceptioanally difficult situations.


Alcohol is also a short term stimulant, but a depressant if
you track it's effects for more than about 10 minutes. If
you have both watches on deck, and a difficult or strenuous
maneuver to tackle, issue a tot of grog to the ones who will
be going off watch as soon as they're done... they'll leap
into the fray with great energy, then go & sleep soundly below.

The trick is to do this without the guys staying on deck get
mad because they're not getting their share. If you have
stocked awful tasting booze and can pass them mugs of flat
"Jolt" soda without them wising up, you're golden!


I'd hesitate to call the vessel "ill-prepared" not knowing the man or his
boat or his habits with it, but it does sound like he wasn't ready for
this trip in this kind of weather.


The story speaks for itself Doug.... he was cold and wet... no reason for
either condition.


Wet can be hard to avoid... cold can be inevitable in the
short term, but the boat *must* have provision to recover
from both or the voyage will be short & miserable.

As I've always said, once you're out of dry towels, the
cruise is over.



About proper trim, maybe so... one reason why he may have had trouble
keeping the boat on course is from unbalanced sail plan. A staysail eould
have been a better choice than the tip of a rolled-up genoa.


Without a doubt a hank on sail is a much better choice to maintain
sailshape.


Nah, a luff foil.



... Double checking all gear prior to departure is extremely important.


Agreed, and that doesn't cost anything.

Damn it, this is no way to run a newsgroup, agreeing all the time. WTF is
wrong with you? Go ahead, say it, the man had a fin keeler!


Even a fin keeler should have aced that situation had the crew been dry,
warm and suficently nourished to maintain the pace required by the vessel.

If you live through it and learn from it.. it's adventure.


What is it if you live thru it and don't learn?


That's called a Bobsprit....


No, that's if you live thru it and others wish you hadn't.

DSK

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"Bart Senior" wrote
At some point you reach a level of experience
where you know what you are getting into and
still decide to go forward. It is a second coming
of age that most people never reach.


Yep. It's a jumping-off point, a leap of faith (faith
tempered by knowledge, of course).

The key is to build up experience & skills consistently and
remain aware of your limits, and those of of your vessel &
crew. A lot of people have been sailing for years, but
really have not expanded their experience beyond anything a
relative novice would encounter. We call this the "20 years
of experience versus 1 year of experience repeated 20 times"
syndrome.


Capt.Mooron wrote:
Well said Bart....


Dang it, there you go agreeing again!

DSK

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

"DSK" wrote

The key is to build up experience & skills consistently and remain aware
of your limits, and those of of your vessel & crew. A lot of people have
been sailing for years, but really have not expanded their experience
beyond anything a relative novice would encounter. We call this the "20
years of experience versus 1 year of experience repeated 20 times"
syndrome.

I meet people like that all the time. I was speaking to a
group of skippers at a club meeting a few years ago.
My point was obvious, the best way to learn to sail is on
small boats. One fellow was very vocal about that not
being true. He'd only been sailing a few years, mostly on
one 32 boat. He had very limited experience and would not admit it.

"Oh god, I'm glad to see you. I'm alive!"
 

Final update. My friend is heading south after all.
He signed on as crew for a trip down "The Ditch".

He'll be travelling as part of a crew of three or four
in preparation of his trip next year. He also plans to
start looking for crew early next time, and states he
will make sure every system on the boat is 100%
functional--smart guy.