Safety Question: Fire Extinguishers
 

In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Bart Senior wrote:
In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?


IIRC it doesn't matter once a boat's LOA is over 26 feet. You must have
at least one type A-B fire extinguisher. There's also a size requirement
for the extinguisher itself (something like 2 5# or 1 10#) but I forget.

Relying on the mandated minimum is not a good idea... We have five fire
extinguishers on board, rated A-B-C. One by each exit, one installed in
the engine room, and one handy to the helm station. I just replaced two
of them a few weeks ago.

It's also a bad idea to rely on a fire extinguisher mounted close to a
potential fire hazard... it might be engulfed in flames when you need
it, you may not be able to reach it! But no boat can continue burning
once the waterline reaches 1" higher than the deck...

Regards
Doug King

You are correct. I think it is foolish to require fire extinguishers
on a boat like my old Etchells. However, I have two chemical
extinguishers certified to destroy any electrical equipment, or
engines that they are used on.

It meets the minimum requirements. I plan to get some CO2
extinguishers for the big boat, in the hopes that if I do have a
fire, I'll be able to preserve the equipment it's used on.

"DSK" wrote
Bart Senior wrote:
In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

IIRC it doesn't matter once a boat's LOA is over 26 feet. You must have at
least one type A-B fire extinguisher. There's also a size requirement for
the extinguisher itself (something like 2 5# or 1 10#) but I forget.

Relying on the mandated minimum is not a good idea... We have five fire
extinguishers on board, rated A-B-C. One by each exit, one installed in
the engine room, and one handy to the helm station. I just replaced two of
them a few weeks ago.

It's also a bad idea to rely on a fire extinguisher mounted close to a
potential fire hazard... it might be engulfed in flames when you need it,
you may not be able to reach it! But no boat can continue burning once the
waterline reaches 1" higher than the deck...

Regards
Doug King

Corrrect 1 point

"Red Cloud©" wrote

In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Yes. Either 1 B-II or two B-I type fire extinguishers that are CG
approved.

Bart Senior wrote:
You are correct. I think it is foolish to require fire extinguishers
on a boat like my old Etchells.

Y'know, it might not be a bad idea to contact the local Coast Guard and
ask. If the boat has no enclosed spaces, no installed machinery, no
propulsion machinery, no fuel carried on board, and no electrical
system, then you sure don't need a fire extinguisher... unless you get
called on for rescue work!

.... However, I have two chemical
extinguishers certified to destroy any electrical equipment, or
engines that they are used on.

It meets the minimum requirements.

Those things surprise a lot of people. It really does a good job of
putting out fires though.... just leaves a nasty corrosive mess to deal
with! Is it better than burning?


... I plan to get some CO2
extinguishers for the big boat, in the hopes that if I do have a
fire, I'll be able to preserve the equipment it's used on.


I won't have anything but CO2 extinguishers. The problem with using them
on fuel fires is that they empty too quickly (so get the next size
bigger, and plenty of them) and the CO2 coming out can splash the fuel
around. We occasionally do some drills too, but compared to military
training it's not very realistic.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bart Senior wrote:
In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?


Federal Law (according to my little handbook from 2000) does not
require fire extinguishers on open boat that have no inboard engines
or fuel tanks. This is not a law that state generally override.

Bart Senior wrote:
Corrrect 1 point

"Red Cloud©" wrote

In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Yes. Either 1 B-II or two B-I type fire extinguishers that are CG
approved.






Incorrect. It is not required if it is open.

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:08:21 -0400, Jeff wrote:


Bart Senior wrote:

Corrrect 1 point

"Red Cloud©" wrote


In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Yes. Either 1 B-II or two B-I type fire extinguishers that are CG
approved.





Incorrect. It is not required if it is open.


Please see 46CFR25.30

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...fr25.30-20.htm

rusty redcloud

So, where does it say the open sailboats must have extinguishers?

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:08:21 -0400, Jeff wrote:


Bart Senior wrote:

Corrrect 1 point

"Red Cloud©" wrote


In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Yes. Either 1 B-II or two B-I type fire extinguishers that are CG
approved.





Incorrect. It is not required if it is open.


Bzzzt. Incorrect. That exemption ends at 26 feet.
Bzzzt. Incorrect. Plus Stupid Points for saying Bzzzt when you're wrong.

Hint: read 46CFR25.30 *carefully*.

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
Bart Senior wrote:
In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?


Federal Law (according to my little handbook from 2000) does not
require fire extinguishers on open boat that have no inboard engines
or fuel tanks. This is not a law that state generally override.


You are correct, Jeff and Bart's question was not specific enough.

Fire extinguishers are required if one or more of the following:

Inboard engine(s)
Closed compartments and compartment under seats where fuel tanks may be stored
Closed living spaces
Closed stowage compartments where combustible or flammable material are stored.

Seems to me an Etchells does not need fire extinguishers except, perhaps if it has
the second item above in the list. But, if you had no engine there would be no need
to stow fuel.

CN

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:46:10 -0400, Jeff wrote:


Red Cloud® wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:08:21 -0400, Jeff wrote:



Bart Senior wrote:


Corrrect 1 point

"Red Cloud©" wrote



In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Yes. Either 1 B-II or two B-I type fire extinguishers that are CG
approved.




Incorrect. It is not required if it is open.


Please see 46CFR25.30

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...fr25.30-20.htm

rusty redcloud

So, where does it say the open sailboats must have extinguishers?


It says the only exception to the rule is motorboats under 26 feet with no
eclosed spaces. A 30.5 foot sailboat is not an open motorboat under 26 feet. ALL
boats over 26 feet require at least one B-II extinguisher or two B-I regardless
of whether or not they are open.

rusty redcloud

Bzzzt. Wrong answer. It says that under the rule that starts out:
"(a) Motorboats."

There are other sections that cover Motor Vessels [powerboats over 65
feet], Uninspected Passenger vessels over 100 tons [a recent change to
the rule], and barges over 65 feet carrying passengers and towed by a
power boat. There is no requirement for sailboats.

Yes.

Scotty


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
...
In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

from Chapman's;

USCG min. reguired safety eg.:
Fire ext.- 26'~40' = either 2 B-1, or 1 B-ll.


--
Scotty,
A Snark that actually gets sailed would be a better choice
than any boat that bobspit uses for bragging on the Internet.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Bart Senior wrote:
In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without
mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?


Federal Law (according to my little handbook from 2000) does not
require fire extinguishers on open boat that have no inboard engines
or fuel tanks. This is not a law that state generally override.

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:52:19 -0400, Jeff wrote:


Red Cloud® wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:08:21 -0400, Jeff wrote:



Bart Senior wrote:


Corrrect 1 point

"Red Cloud©" wrote



In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Yes. Either 1 B-II or two B-I type fire extinguishers that are CG
approved.




Incorrect. It is not required if it is open.


Bzzzt. Incorrect. That exemption ends at 26 feet.

Bzzzt. Incorrect. Plus Stupid Points for saying Bzzzt when you're wrong.

Hint: read 46CFR25.30 *carefully*.


Bzzzt! Bzzzzt! Bzzzzt!

It says the only exception to the rule is motorboats under 26 feet with no
enclosed spaces. A 30.5 foot sailboat is not an open motorboat under 26 feet.
ALL boats over 26 feet require at least one B-II extinguisher or two B-I
regardless of whether or not they are open.

rusty redcloud

Bzzzt! Bzzzt! Bzzzt! Three more Stupid Points for Rusty. The clause
you're referring to is for "motorboats." As in "boats with motors."
There is no place where they mention sailboats.

That's a nice chart in Chapman's, but the categories apply to
motorboats, not sailboats. The categories Class A, 1, 2 and 3 are
used to refer to power boats.


Scotty wrote:
from Chapman's;

USCG min. reguired safety eg.:
Fire ext.- 26'~40' = either 2 B-1, or 1 B-ll.


--
Scotty,
A Snark that actually gets sailed would be a better choice
than any boat that bobspit uses for bragging on the Internet.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Bart Senior wrote:

In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without

mechanical

propulsion require fire extinguishers?



Federal Law (according to my little handbook from 2000) does not
require fire extinguishers on open boat that have no inboard engines
or fuel tanks. This is not a law that state generally override.

Red Cloud® wrote:
.....

It says the only exception to the rule is motorboats under 26 feet with no
enclosed spaces. A 30.5 foot sailboat is not an open motorboat under 26 feet.
ALL boats over 26 feet require at least one B-II extinguisher or two B-I
regardless of whether or not they are open.

rusty redcloud

Bzzzt! Bzzzt! Bzzzt! Three more Stupid Points for Rusty. The clause
you're referring to is for "motorboats." As in "boats with motors."
There is no place where they mention sailboats.


So, your contention is that there are no regulations for sailboats? Sailboats
over 26 feet do not have any CG requirements for safety equipment? Okay Jaxie!

You're the one being Jaxian here. I'm saying the federal regs don't
require a fire extinguisher for open sailboats. In fact, 46CFR
SubChapter C (which you quote) specifically says in the intro that it
only has provisions for sailboats that carry passengers for hire, so
it doesn't apply.

Now you're putting words in my mouth claiming that I say that there
are no requirements for safety equipment on sailboat over 26 feet.
You seen to have a serious reading problem, perhaps you should seek
medical attention.

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:24:48 -0400, Jeff wrote:


That's a nice chart in Chapman's, but the categories apply to
motorboats, not sailboats. The categories Class A, 1, 2 and 3 are
used to refer to power boats.



That is incorrect. A sailboat that is 25'11" is a class 1 recreational vessel. A
sailboat that is 26' is a class 2 recreational vessel. The Colgate 26 is a
common example. It is built just slightly under 26 feet to make it a class 1
recreational vessel and greatly reduce the CG regulations it must comply with.
Don't believe me? Ask Steve Colgate and he'll tell you that's exactly why his
boat was designed at a little under 26 feet.

rusty redcloud


So, where do you find the in the CFR? How about 46CFR90, where is says:

Class A--Any motorboat less than 16 feet in length.
Class 1--Any motorboat 16 feet or over and less than 26 feet in length.
Class 2--Any motorboat 26 feet or over and less than 40 feet in length.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt! What is, ''rusty is a dork''..


--
Scotty,
A Snark that actually gets sailed would be a better choice
than any boat that bobspit uses for bragging on the Internet.


"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:49:28 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Red Cloud® wrote:
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:52:19 -0400, Jeff wrote:


Red Cloud® wrote:

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:08:21 -0400, Jeff wrote:



Bart Senior wrote:


Corrrect 1 point

"Red Cloud©" wrote



In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without
mechanical
propulsion require fire extinguishers?

Yes. Either 1 B-II or two B-I type fire extinguishers that
are CG
approved.




Incorrect. It is not required if it is open.


Bzzzt. Incorrect. That exemption ends at 26 feet.

Bzzzt. Incorrect. Plus Stupid Points for saying Bzzzt when
you're wrong.

Hint: read 46CFR25.30 *carefully*.


Bzzzt! Bzzzzt! Bzzzzt!

It says the only exception to the rule is motorboats under 26
feet with no
enclosed spaces. A 30.5 foot sailboat is not an open motorboat
under 26 feet.
ALL boats over 26 feet require at least one B-II extinguisher or
two B-I
regardless of whether or not they are open.

rusty redcloud

Bzzzt! Bzzzt! Bzzzt! Three more Stupid Points for Rusty. The
clause
you're referring to is for "motorboats." As in "boats with
motors."
There is no place where they mention sailboats.

So, your contention is that there are no regulations for sailboats?
Sailboats
over 26 feet do not have any CG requirements for safety equipment?
Okay Jaxie!

rusty redcloud

It doesn't really specify either way.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
That's a nice chart in Chapman's, but the categories apply to
motorboats, not sailboats. The categories Class A, 1, 2 and 3 are
used to refer to power boats.


Scotty wrote:
from Chapman's;

USCG min. reguired safety eg.:
Fire ext.- 26'~40' = either 2 B-1, or 1 B-ll.


--
Scotty,
A Snark that actually gets sailed would be a better choice
than any boat that bobspit uses for bragging on the Internet.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Bart Senior wrote:

In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without

mechanical

propulsion require fire extinguishers?



Federal Law (according to my little handbook from 2000) does not
require fire extinguishers on open boat that have no inboard
engines
or fuel tanks. This is not a law that state generally override.

It? You mean Chapman's? I didn't realize it was now the Law of the Land.


Scotty wrote:
It doesn't really specify either way.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...

That's a nice chart in Chapman's, but the categories apply to
motorboats, not sailboats. The categories Class A, 1, 2 and 3 are
used to refer to power boats.


Scotty wrote:

from Chapman's;

USCG min. reguired safety eg.:
Fire ext.- 26'~40' = either 2 B-1, or 1 B-ll.


--
Scotty,
A Snark that actually gets sailed would be a better choice
than any boat that bobspit uses for bragging on the Internet.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...


Bart Senior wrote:


In the USA, does a sailboat, 30.5 feet in length, without

mechanical


propulsion require fire extinguishers?



Federal Law (according to my little handbook from 2000) does not
require fire extinguishers on open boat that have no inboard

engines

or fuel tanks. This is not a law that state generally override.

Scotty wrote:
It doesn't really specify either way.


I think Scotty's right. It doesn't say.

But would you want to have an arguement out on the water with a Coastie
(or worse, local law) who was determined to give you a ticket and was
convinced that having a foredeck constituted an "enclosed space? I'd
just as soon carry a fire extinguisher... besides that way you can be a
hero when some other person's boat catches fire.

I've had NC Wildlife officers try and pull boats out of one-design races
to count life jackets & look for fire extinguishers. It wasn't pretty.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King