"Easy to handle" ...what does it really mean?
 

Time for a sailing thread. Where's Bart when you need him?

One of the essential characteristics of a cruising boat is that she be
"easy to handle." Obviously this means different things to different people.

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass & roller
furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be added on.

In the quote below, they refer to size & turning ability, but not basic
configuration or deck layout. IMHO these things should all be a part of
the choice of boat, and cannot be upgraded later.

Small jibs, possibly fitted with self-tacking gear, is a big improvement
over a huge genoa... unless the boat will not sail properly because it's
underpowered. Basic design. Etc etc.

I'm interested in what others have to say on the subject.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


** ** begin quote from "The Stone Horse" booklet, Edey & Duff, 1968** **

Cruising sailboats are almost invariably short-handed. The watch on deck
is frequently only one person. So the sails and rig should be within the
strength capability of this abbreviated crew. The smallest, weakest
member of the crew, working alone, should be able to perform aby
evolution required to rescue another crewmember who's been silly enough
to fall overboard, in any weather likely to be encountered. In case of
medical emergency, he or she should also be able to detach the vessel
from the bottom (as such things usually wait until you're tucked away in
some remote anchorage) , get underway, sail to where help can be found,
and terminate the emergency run without terminating either the patient
or the boat.

And of course it's times like these that the engine and radio choose to
pack it in (Murphy has provided a natural law to cover these
situations).

Up to a point, mechanical aids such as winches and windlasses, and to a
greater extent, the the knowledge and experience of each crew member,
will permit larger, heavier, more cumbersome boats and gear. But
ultimately, a flogging headsail that must be muzzled and changed, a
spinnaker doused, or an anchor heaved on board or buoyed and slipped,
become the limiting factors.

She should be directionally stable, yet have authoritative rudder
control and a small turning circle. When the helmsman looks up from the
chart, she should not have wandered wildly off course. In fact it is
especially important that a cruising boat can be made to steer herself
for long periods. You should be able to leave the helm untended to trim,
set or shorten sail, make a sndwich, answer nature's call, study a
chart, or for any number of reasons without having to awaken a snoozing
spouse or trust a lubberly passenger.

On the other hand, to be able to negotiate a narrow harbor entrancem
twitch reliably and safely through an anchored fleet, and come to
anchor, wholly under sail, with a minimum of fuss, is a joy and a
satisfaction.

Seems to me it's all of the things you mention. What I like about my Cal is
that it stays on track easily because the rudder is so big. This makes it
easier to handle with the relatively big winds on the bay. It's no wonder
that after 40 years, it's still a popular boat here.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Time for a sailing thread. Where's Bart when you need him?

One of the essential characteristics of a cruising boat is that she be
"easy to handle." Obviously this means different things to different
people.

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass & roller
furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number of things
rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be added on.

In the quote below, they refer to size & turning ability, but not basic
configuration or deck layout. IMHO these things should all be a part of
the choice of boat, and cannot be upgraded later.

Small jibs, possibly fitted with self-tacking gear, is a big improvement
over a huge genoa... unless the boat will not sail properly because it's
underpowered. Basic design. Etc etc.

I'm interested in what others have to say on the subject.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


** ** begin quote from "The Stone Horse" booklet, Edey & Duff, 1968** **

Cruising sailboats are almost invariably short-handed. The watch on deck
is frequently only one person. So the sails and rig should be within the
strength capability of this abbreviated crew. The smallest, weakest member
of the crew, working alone, should be able to perform aby evolution
required to rescue another crewmember who's been silly enough to fall
overboard, in any weather likely to be encountered. In case of medical
emergency, he or she should also be able to detach the vessel from the
bottom (as such things usually wait until you're tucked away in some
remote anchorage) , get underway, sail to where help can be found, and
terminate the emergency run without terminating either the patient or the
boat.

And of course it's times like these that the engine and radio choose to
pack it in (Murphy has provided a natural law to cover these situations).

Up to a point, mechanical aids such as winches and windlasses, and to a
greater extent, the the knowledge and experience of each crew member, will
permit larger, heavier, more cumbersome boats and gear. But ultimately, a
flogging headsail that must be muzzled and changed, a spinnaker doused,
or an anchor heaved on board or buoyed and slipped, become the limiting
factors.

She should be directionally stable, yet have authoritative rudder control
and a small turning circle. When the helmsman looks up from the chart,
she should not have wandered wildly off course. In fact it is especially
important that a cruising boat can be made to steer herself for long
periods. You should be able to leave the helm untended to trim, set or
shorten sail, make a sndwich, answer nature's call, study a chart, or for
any number of reasons without having to awaken a snoozing spouse or trust
a lubberly passenger.

On the other hand, to be able to negotiate a narrow harbor entrancem
twitch reliably and safely through an anchored fleet, and come to anchor,
wholly under sail, with a minimum of fuss, is a joy and a satisfaction.

Doug,

For what's it worth; "Easy to handle"
It's a boat that is responsive to the Helm but not in need of constant
helming, A boat that can go to windward without a lot of leeway and
have a good turn of speed off the wind and down wind. A boat that will
stand up to a stiff breeze but not be a slug in a light breeze and
doesn't need constant sail changes. It should have decent balance on all
points of sail but not be tender. Last but not least, it should be
comfortable for the occupants, whether a day sailor or a cruiser.

Forgot; It should have a decent, simple rigging system and sail plan.
This is very subjective.

Ole Thom

On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:17:46 -0800, "JG" wrote
this crap:

Seems to me it's all of the things you mention. What I like about my Cal is
that it stays on track easily because the rudder is so big. This makes it
easier to handle with the relatively big winds on the bay. It's no wonder
that after 40 years, it's still a popular boat here.


It's no wonder you like to handle a big rudder, Jon-boy. And it's no
wonder it's a popular boat for the gay area.





This post is 100% free of steroids

Thom Stewart wrote:
Doug,

For what's it worth; "Easy to handle"
It's a boat that is responsive to the Helm but not in need of constant
helming, A boat that can go to windward without a lot of leeway and
have a good turn of speed off the wind and down wind. A boat that will
stand up to a stiff breeze but not be a slug in a light breeze and
doesn't need constant sail changes. It should have decent balance on all
points of sail but not be tender. Last but not least, it should be
comfortable for the occupants, whether a day sailor or a cruiser.

Forgot; It should have a decent, simple rigging system and sail plan.
This is very subjective.

Ole Thom


THis all sounds like Lady Kate, but I'm sure she wasn't the boat
any of you had in mind....
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
SquareBoats! http://www.ace.net.au/sbhome.htm
http://music.download.com/timfatchen

DSK wrote:
What makes a boat "easy to handle"?

"Easy to handle" depends on the context. To me, the most interesting context
is long-term, short-handed cruising. Here is a few things that I think is
important:

Directional stability.
That means no fin-keeler with spade rudder. Long keel with cutaway forefoot)
is a possibility but I think I would prefer a long fin and a skeg-hung
rudder. I also find use of a swing-keel or dagger-board between the keel and
the rudder an interesting concept, but I doubt that the speed-gains can
justify the added complexity.

Dependable even if overpowered
No beamy boats that will luff uncontrollable if overpowered. A fairly narrow
boat with a healthy ballast will just heel over and maybe drift a bit more
to
lee ward, but will not broach, tack or change direction.

Must be steerable by windvane.
that means a "non-surfer" since no automatic steering device can steer a
surfing boat.

No big headsails.
I think my preferences would be a fractional rigged sloop up to maybe 7 tons
or a cutter from 6 to 10 tons. (The reason I prefer a one mast rig is
because I am after all a bit of a speed-freak).

Easy ways to adjust sailarea.
This have to be figured out specifically for the individual boat, but in
general a split sailarea is preferable. Maybe there is some good arguments
for
a ketch but I for boats under 40' I think that one mast is enough.

For a boat bigger than 30' you need an windlass for the anchor, and a manual
windlass is not "easy to handle".

Auxiliary engine.
You might not need it, but it does make life easier.

The windage must be balanced by the underwater body.
Moderate windage and a healthy keel-size is a good combination.

Size
I suppose that it is possible to build big boats with all kinds of automatic
gear that can be handled fairly easy by a small crew, but for me, sailing
should be kept simple and affordable, so for me an easily handled boat
would mean a boat that is easily handled with simple means. I will accept a
windlass a few manual winches, an auxiliary engine and of course a windvane,
but no bowthrusters, hydraulic winches or other fancy stuff. That means
that a boat should not be bigger than 10 tons (or maybe around 40 ').
If we are talking about a long-term cruiser, then of course you want
living-space, even if short-handed, so I think that the ideal compromise
would be something like a 38' long 10' wide boat with a displacement around
6 tons in light condition with maybe 50% in the keel


Peter S/Y Anicula








"DSK" skrev i en meddelelse
.. .
Time for a sailing thread. Where's Bart when you need him?

One of the essential characteristics of a cruising boat is that she be
"easy to handle." Obviously this means different things to different
people.

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass & roller
furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be added on.

In the quote below, they refer to size & turning ability, but not basic
configuration or deck layout. IMHO these things should all be a part of
the choice of boat, and cannot be upgraded later.

Small jibs, possibly fitted with self-tacking gear, is a big improvement
over a huge genoa... unless the boat will not sail properly because it's
underpowered. Basic design. Etc etc.

I'm interested in what others have to say on the subject.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


** ** begin quote from "The Stone Horse" booklet, Edey & Duff, 1968** **

Cruising sailboats are almost invariably short-handed. The watch on deck
is frequently only one person. So the sails and rig should be within the
strength capability of this abbreviated crew. The smallest, weakest
member of the crew, working alone, should be able to perform aby
evolution required to rescue another crewmember who's been silly enough
to fall overboard, in any weather likely to be encountered. In case of
medical emergency, he or she should also be able to detach the vessel
from the bottom (as such things usually wait until you're tucked away in
some remote anchorage) , get underway, sail to where help can be found,
and terminate the emergency run without terminating either the patient
or the boat.

And of course it's times like these that the engine and radio choose to
pack it in (Murphy has provided a natural law to cover these
situations).

Up to a point, mechanical aids such as winches and windlasses, and to a
greater extent, the the knowledge and experience of each crew member,
will permit larger, heavier, more cumbersome boats and gear. But
ultimately, a flogging headsail that must be muzzled and changed, a
spinnaker doused, or an anchor heaved on board or buoyed and slipped,
become the limiting factors.

She should be directionally stable, yet have authoritative rudder
control and a small turning circle. When the helmsman looks up from the
chart, she should not have wandered wildly off course. In fact it is
especially important that a cruising boat can be made to steer herself
for long periods. You should be able to leave the helm untended to trim,
set or shorten sail, make a sndwich, answer nature's call, study a
chart, or for any number of reasons without having to awaken a snoozing
spouse or trust a lubberly passenger.

On the other hand, to be able to negotiate a narrow harbor entrancem
twitch reliably and safely through an anchored fleet, and come to
anchor, wholly under sail, with a minimum of fuss, is a joy and a
satisfaction.

Essential add-ons for single handing; Auto pilot, RF jib, halyards
led aft, ST winches.




"DSK" wrote

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass &
roller
furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be
added on.

Also, the definition changes if you have competent or not competent crew.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Essential add-ons for single handing; Auto pilot, RF jib, halyards
led aft, ST winches.




"DSK" wrote

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass &
roller
furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be
added on.

Yes, it wouldn't be 'single handing' then.

SV

"JG" wrote in message
...
Also, the definition changes if you have competent or not competent
crew.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Essential add-ons for single handing; Auto pilot, RF jib,
halyards
led aft, ST winches.




"DSK" wrote

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass &
roller
furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number
of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be
added on.

oops...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Yes, it wouldn't be 'single handing' then.

SV

"JG" wrote in message
...
Also, the definition changes if you have competent or not competent
crew.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Essential add-ons for single handing; Auto pilot, RF jib,
halyards
led aft, ST winches.




"DSK" wrote

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass &
roller
furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number
of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be
added on.

Only one of those is essential. A tiller lock or loop will keep
you going in most directions without having to stand to the
tiller. The autopilot will break down when you most need it (and
besides, as a single hander, you're supposed to be on watch the
whole time). You don't _have_ to sail a yacht with a rig using a
jib at all. (RF can jam). With an "easy to handle" design,
winches become an enjoyable luxury but not a necessity, so ST
winches go into the non-essential classes too!

While we're at it, get rid of the standing rigging other than for
a bit of additional support when in really rough weather. Set the
masts up so they can easily be lowered, in a seaway, by one
person, to get at halyard jams etc without using a bosun's chair
or climbing a pitching/rolling mast. And so on.


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/
http://music.download.com/timfatchen

Scotty wrote:
Essential add-ons for single handing; Auto pilot, RF jib, halyards
led aft, ST winches.




"DSK" wrote

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass &

roller

furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be

added on.

I like my "tiller tender." It works well enough for the brief period when I
have to go forward.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
Only one of those is essential. A tiller lock or loop will keep you going
in most directions without having to stand to the tiller. The autopilot
will break down when you most need it (and besides, as a single hander,
you're supposed to be on watch the whole time). You don't _have_ to sail a
yacht with a rig using a jib at all. (RF can jam). With an "easy to
handle" design, winches become an enjoyable luxury but not a necessity, so
ST winches go into the non-essential classes too!

While we're at it, get rid of the standing rigging other than for a bit of
additional support when in really rough weather. Set the masts up so they
can easily be lowered, in a seaway, by one person, to get at halyard jams
etc without using a bosun's chair or climbing a pitching/rolling mast.
And so on.


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/
http://music.download.com/timfatchen

Scotty wrote:
Essential add-ons for single handing; Auto pilot, RF jib, halyards
led aft, ST winches.




"DSK" wrote

What makes a boat "easy to handle"? Size? A powerful windlass &

roller

furling? Self-tailing winches? Halyards led aft? I have a number of
things rooted in the basic design of a boat, and which cannot be

added on.

"Flying Tadpole" wrote ...
Only one of those is essential.

I should have wrote, ''essential to me''?

A tiller lock or loop will keep
you going in most directions without having to stand to the
tiller.

Won't work on a real sailboat with a wheel.

The autopilot will break down when you most need it (and
besides, as a single hander, you're supposed to be on watch the
whole time).


What, you never go potty? never eat while sailing?




While we're at it, get rid of the standing rigging other than for
a bit of additional support when in really rough weather. Set the
masts up so they can easily be lowered, in a seaway, by one
person, to get at halyard jams etc without using a bosun's chair
or climbing a pitching/rolling mast. And so on.


That would be nice. Someone should build a nice boat with those
features.

Scotty

Scotty wrote:
"Flying Tadpole" wrote ...

Only one of those is essential.


I should have wrote, ''essential to me''?

That would have been a different topic.




A tiller lock or loop will keep
you going in most directions without having to stand to the
tiller.


Won't work on a real sailboat with a wheel.

OK. I'll accept that. (I also hate wheels).



The autopilot will break down when you most need it (and
besides, as a single hander, you're supposed to be on watch the
whole time).



What, you never go potty? never eat while sailing?


You forgot, "never sleep". One of the difficulties of
singlehanding for any length of time is how one eats, excretes
and rests while underway, AT THE SAME TIME keeping the continuous
lookout required by colregs

While we're at it, get rid of the standing rigging other than for
a bit of additional support when in really rough weather. Set the
masts up so they can easily be lowered, in a seaway, by one
person, to get at halyard jams etc without using a bosun's chair
or climbing a pitching/rolling mast. And so on.



That would be nice. Someone should build a nice boat with those
features.


As always, depends on the aesthetic defining "nice". The
question was what "easy to handle " meant, not nice...
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
SquareBoats! http://ace.net.au/schooner.sbhome.htm
http://music.download.com/timfatchen

"Flying Tadpole" wrote



Won't work on a real sailboat with a wheel.

OK. I'll accept that. (I also hate wheels).


Why do you hate wheels?

Flying Scott

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Flying Tadpole" wrote



Won't work on a real sailboat with a wheel.

OK. I'll accept that. (I also hate wheels).


Why do you hate wheels?

Flying Scott

I'd like to know why as well.
My tiller always made my neck and back go stiff after a short time.
Scout

Scout wrote:
"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Flying Tadpole" wrote

Won't work on a real sailboat with a wheel.

OK. I'll accept that. (I also hate wheels).


Why do you hate wheels?

Flying Scott


I'd like to know why as well.
My tiller always made my neck and back go stiff after a short time.

Well, I had a stiff neck to begin with...

I suppose it comes from dinghy sailing--I just like the immediacy
of a tiller, not least its value as an instant vernier on rudder
position, both visual and pressure. Also, almost all the
sailboats I've had at least passing experience with have been
small and a wheel, as well as being an expensive complication, is
an aunnecessary one. Conversely, most wheeling has been in power
vessels--the best being river houseboats where helm response was
not a design requirement, though unmanageable windage is.

ANd my wheels fell off long ago, so I suppose there's an envy
quotient in there too.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
http://www.ace.net.au/schooner
http://www.soundclick.com/flyingtadpolemusic.htm

I'd like to thank everybody who joined in this SAILING topic!

Thom Stewart wrote:
For what's it worth; "Easy to handle"
It's a boat that is responsive to the Helm but not in need of constant
helming

Good point. I'm going to bring in Peter's statements below.

... A boat that will
stand up to a stiff breeze but not be a slug in a light breeze and
doesn't need constant sail changes.

Or at least have a headsail or mainsail reefing system that can be
operated without excessinve crew effort.

... Last but not least, it should be
comfortable for the occupants, whether a day sailor or a cruiser.

I think that's a very good point and (as you mention) very subjective.
If a boat make you sore or tired then it's going to be difficult to
handle properly at the end of the day.


Flying Tadpole wrote:
THis all sounds like Lady Kate, but I'm sure she wasn't the boat any of
you had in mind...

In mind, yes. In hand, no. ;)
IMHO a lot of Phil Bolger's designs are wonderfully practical. And not
just his box boats!



Aniculapeter wrote:
"Easy to handle" depends on the context. To me, the most interesting context
is long-term, short-handed cruising.

Yes, probably true for most people... but the same things apply to
weekending.

... Here is a few things that I think is
important:

Directional stability.
That means no fin-keeler with spade rudder.

Why not? If properly designed & strongly built, such a configuration is
very effectively sailed by autopilot or with helm locked.

..... Long keel with cutaway forefoot)
is a possibility but I think I would prefer a long fin and a skeg-hung
rudder. I also find use of a swing-keel or dagger-board between the keel and
the rudder an interesting concept, but I doubt that the speed-gains can
justify the added complexity.

It's not going to add speed, just drag. Will make it a lot easier to
steer. A boat with a very large centerboard like some of the old CCC
designs, can be balanced by swing the board up and aft. Good for heavy
weather and off-wind sailing.



Dependable even if overpowered
No beamy boats that will luff uncontrollable if overpowered. A fairly narrow
boat with a healthy ballast will just heel over and maybe drift a bit more
to
lee ward, but will not broach, tack or change direction.

I think that depends very much on the design, rig & rudder in
particular. The reason most beamy boats "spin out" when heeled is that
they lift the rudder out. This can be corrected a number of ways, with
rig balance or with twin rudders. Not that I'm wildly in favor of pudgy
boats, mind you...


Must be steerable by windvane.
that means a "non-surfer" since no automatic steering device can steer a
surfing boat.

Or a fast boat ;)

No big headsails.

Agreed... or at least, not big ones that block the helmsman's vision or
are allmost impossible to tack...

I think my preferences would be a fractional rigged sloop up to maybe 7 tons
or a cutter from 6 to 10 tons. (The reason I prefer a one mast rig is
because I am after all a bit of a speed-freak).

Then why the windvane? A windvane will be totally unable to handle a
boat that can generate significant apparent wind.


Easy ways to adjust sailarea.
This have to be figured out specifically for the individual boat, but in
general a split sailarea is preferable. Maybe there is some good arguments
for
a ketch but I for boats under 40' I think that one mast is enough.


Agreed... but a schooner is the classy way to go!

For a boat bigger than 30' you need an windlass for the anchor, and a manual
windlass is not "easy to handle".


I'm open minded about that... although I am currently installing an
electric vertical windlass myself...


Size
I suppose that it is possible to build big boats with all kinds of automatic
gear that can be handled fairly easy by a small crew, but for me, sailing
should be kept simple and affordable, so for me an easily handled boat
would mean a boat that is easily handled with simple means.

And of course, a practical maintenance schedule. Gimmicks have gotten
marvelously reliable over the past decade, but we are still far away
from the maintenance free boat.

... I will accept a
windlass a few manual winches, an auxiliary engine and of course a windvane,
but no bowthrusters, hydraulic winches or other fancy stuff. That means
that a boat should not be bigger than 10 tons (or maybe around 40 ').
If we are talking about a long-term cruiser, then of course you want
living-space, even if short-handed, so I think that the ideal compromise
would be something like a 38' long 10' wide boat with a displacement around
6 tons in light condition with maybe 50% in the keel


Did you see the thread on ballast ratios & different types of stability?
IMHO a high ballast ratio is one of the best things for a boat (other
than racing dinghies like say a 470), for a number of reasons.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King