wrote in message

I never said it was ugly. In fact, I think it has nice lines.

It's a Bill Luders design, from the hand of the man who designed winning
America's Cup racers in the mid-20th Century. His designs were all
rule-beaters, and this boat is no exception. Your contention that it's a
slug is dead wrong, and shows your complete lack of experience and knowledge
regarding sailing vessels. You depend upon numbers, ratings, and emperical
findings, which are meaningless in the real world. If you knew anything
about boats, you'd discover that boats seldom perform to their numbers,
except in very specific conditions, generally flat water, winds of 8-10kts.
and such. For example, a friend's Westsail 32 is almost untouchable in
winds over 20kts. He walks away from Catalina 42s and 387s which can't
carry enough sail in those conditions to maintain any decent turn of speed.
He sailed alongside a Chicago-Mac racer of roughly 40', with lots of
railmeat to hold her upright, for nearly 10 miles in 30kts. You wouldn't
have left your slip in such conditions. No doubt you believe the Westsail
32 to be a slug.

I just said it was a slug, which it is. The C&C is not a "lovely little
lake
boat", it's a fast, light, coastal cruiser. That's what I use it for, and
it
excels. MixUp's Sea Slug 34 may be suitable for slow, log passages, but he
doesn't ever do that. He's a near-shore coastal LAKE sailor, who makes
sure he
is at a dock when the sun sets. His boat is not suited for what he does
with it.
Its also slow as molasses.

In 5 kts. it sails at roughly 3kts. (GPS). In 10kts. it sails at 5.5kts.
That's slow as molasses? At 20kts. with a single reef taken it sails beyond
hull speed, generally in the range of 7.5 with bursts to 8 in gusts. That's
slow? It does 3-4' closely-spaced chop with ease, while boats such as yours
pound their occupants and make them seasick. It's anything but "slow as
molasses. I'd love the opportunity to show you just how "slow" it is in a
boat vs. boat comparison. No doubt you'd do what we see quite often from
boats that can't believe a boat with a 24' waterline is beating their boat:
a tack or gybe to sail the other direction and end their humiliation.

I'm not at all envious of a Sea slug 34. Maxprop never crosses oceans, so
it's
"possible" advantages are never utilized.

While strong enough by any standard, the Sea Sprites aren't ocean boats. C.
E. Ryder, the builder, never claimed they were. He built a line of boats
for that purpose: the Southern Cross series. The Sea Sprites are all
CCA-type sleek yachts with damn fine looks, excellent sailing manners,
comfortable accommodations for the crew, and not by any means slow. They
aren't crab crushers, rather a different genera of boat entirely. But I
wouldn't expect you to know that. For that matter I wouldn't expect you to
know much at all, as you've so willingly demonstrated with your insipid
posts.

Rather than continue to appear ignorant, consider reading Ferenc Mate's
chapter on the Sea Sprite 34 (he calls it a Luders 34) in his book, Best
Boats. It's one of his favorites, and he makes a rather strong statement
that the boat is not slow. Offhand I don't recall seeing your boat in that
book. . . .

Max

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Sea Slug more like! Shows Maxine is all show and no go!

Another "numbers sailor" with no apparent real world experience. You guys
are so incredibly transparent.

Max

katysails wrote:
Ya know, comparing fin keel boats to crab crushers is really just an
exercise in futility...they are made for different kinds of sailing under
different conditions

But they most often have to sail the same waters & the same
conditions... hard as as it is for the Crab Crusher Mafia to swallow,
fin keel boats have sailed round Cape Horn... in fact I bet by now that
more fin keelers have...

... and for different temperaments...

Yes indeed, there's the real point.


It's sort of like Joe's specious arguments about steel boats. Not everyone
who sails wants to be tied to invest in Brillo for the rest of their
lives...so why can't we all just be glad for the boats we have and agree
that the only boats not worth having are Mac 26X's and M's and Coronado
27's?


Even the Mac26X and the Coronado 27 have some redeeming features. The
Mac26X is the best floatable camping trailer ever built; the Coronado 27
is cheap & roomy and serves as a reminder of the cultural emptiness of
it's era. Every time I see one, I think of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In....

DSK

Maxprop wrote:
wrote in message


I never said it was ugly. In fact, I think it has nice lines.


It's a Bill Luders design, from the hand of the man who designed winning
America's Cup racers in the mid-20th Century. His designs were all
rule-beaters, and this boat is no exception.

Luders was a great designer, but America's Cup was not hs best genre.
Weatherly was a rework of a Rhodes design (built by Luders), and
might have lost to the faster Gretel were it not for the aggressive
handling of Bud Mosbacher.


I agree completely with the rest of your comments. IIRC, Mate gushed
over the Luders 34.

It's a Bill Luders design, from the hand of the man who designed
winning America's Cup racers in the mid-20th Century. His designs
were all rule-beaters, and this boat is no exception.


Jeff Morris wrote:
Luders was a great designer, but America's Cup was not hs best genre.
Weatherly was a rework of a Rhodes design (built by Luders), and might
have lost to the faster Gretel were it not for the aggressive handling
of Bud Mosbacher.


I agree completely with the rest of your comments. IIRC, Mate gushed
over the Luders 34.

The Luders Navy Yawls were the best of the best
http://www.navypaxsail.com/Yawls.htm

and I think that most sailors my age or a bit older (or at least, the
ones that have their eyes open) will have drooled over the Luders 16
http://www.l16.org/

I've seen some bigger Luders racer/cruisers with much the same look, the
Sea Sprites are a lot less extreme. While the long stretched-out
overhangs look really elegant, they throw spray and they're a great way
to get small-boat accomodation in a big boat LOA.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
wrote in message


I never said it was ugly. In fact, I think it has nice lines.


It's a Bill Luders design, from the hand of the man who designed winning
America's Cup racers in the mid-20th Century. His designs were all
rule-beaters, and this boat is no exception.

Luders was a great designer, but America's Cup was not hs best genre.
Weatherly was a rework of a Rhodes design (built by Luders), and might
have lost to the faster Gretel were it not for the aggressive handling of
Bud Mosbacher.


I agree completely with the rest of your comments. IIRC, Mate gushed over
the Luders 34.

We were a bit like BB, I'm sorry to admit, when a SS 34 became available.
We looked at the numbers and concluded it must be a slug. But then we saw
Mate's writeup and decided to give the boat a look and a sea trial. Blew us
away, it did. What BB and others fail to realize is that those CCA boats
had long overhangs, and when heeled the effective waterline increased
dramatically, effectively allowing a faster hull speed. Downwind the short
waterline length is an advantage w/r/t wetted surface area minimized.

Rating rules are calculations based upon measurements, and such rules can be
beaten. For example, my boat has a 7/8 fractional rig, which gives her an
even greater rating advantage. Luders relished beating the rules, and even
when he showed the ratings gurus where they had loopholes, they ignored him.
So he beat them at their own game regularly. The SS 34 is easily as quick
as a Catalina 34, which is probably why they do so well in handicap racing.
Her PHRF rating is a gift, compliments of Bill Luders.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
Rating rules are calculations based upon measurements, and such rules can be
beaten. For example, my boat has a 7/8 fractional rig, which gives her an
even greater rating advantage. Luders relished beating the rules, and even
when he showed the ratings gurus where they had loopholes, they ignored him.
So he beat them at their own game regularly. The SS 34 is easily as quick
as a Catalina 34, which is probably why they do so well in handicap racing.
Her PHRF rating is a gift, compliments of Bill Luders.



So how do you figure that? PHRF is supposed to based on a design's
performance, not its measurements. If a boat consistently outperforms
its rating, the rating is changed. What you say would only hold true
if very few are raced, or if the average SS34 skipper was a turkey.

"DSK" wrote in message

The Luders Navy Yawls were the best of the best
http://www.navypaxsail.com/Yawls.htm

and I think that most sailors my age or a bit older (or at least, the ones
that have their eyes open) will have drooled over the Luders 16
http://www.l16.org/

I've seen some bigger Luders racer/cruisers with much the same look, the
Sea Sprites are a lot less extreme. While the long stretched-out overhangs
look really elegant, they throw spray and they're a great way to get
small-boat accomodation in a big boat LOA.

True on both counts. Spray is a given with our boat in the right
conditions, but we have a dodger and bimini, so it's not a problem. And
yes, the accommodations are roughly equal to a 31' boat of broader beam and
more modern design. The narrow beam of the CCA boats does, however, allow
them to be very slippery through the water. A friend's new Catalina 350
drags her transom something awful, leaving a turbulent wake behind the boat.
Our boat leaves virtually nothing behind. It's often deceptive, it's so
quiet. One has to go forward to see and hear the bow wave to convince the
senses that we really are moving along with a good turn of speed.

Max

"DSK" wrote in message

But they most often have to sail the same waters & the same conditions...
hard as as it is for the Crab Crusher Mafia to swallow, fin keel boats
have sailed round Cape Horn... in fact I bet by now that more fin keelers
have...

Doubtful, unless you're discounting the centuries when multi-masted cargo
ships rounded the Horn in lieu of the Panama Canal, which was not yet
constructed.

Even the Mac26X and the Coronado 27 have some redeeming features. The
Mac26X is the best floatable camping trailer ever built; the Coronado 27
is cheap & roomy and serves as a reminder of the cultural emptiness of
it's era. Every time I see one, I think of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In....

Sock it to me.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
So he beat them at their own game regularly. The SS 34 is easily as quick
as a Catalina 34, which is probably why they do so well in handicap racing.
Her PHRF rating is a gift, compliments of Bill Luders.


Umm, Jeff is right. PHRF is not a measurement rule, it's a performance
rating. If you beat your handicap by a lot, the rating committee is
supposed to adjust it downward (faster) a little.

DSK