I just bought a 1982 25 foot O'Day. I have no idea if there is a model
name or number. It has a HUGE genoa. My first question are about
safety. This boat has a retractable centerboard.

When I have the genoa out all the way any puff over 7 mph puts the boat
into a pretty scary lean and when I turn upwind to minimize the lean it
takes at least 4 seconds for the boat to straighten up. It begins a
nice turn immediately but the lee rail stays low. My HOBIE CAT Senses
yell "Capsize" when this is going on. Am I at risk of capsizing in a 15
knot wind with my monster genoa fully out or will I just lean like a
monster? Does it matter whether or not I have my centerboard down? Will
my centerboard possibly retract by itself if I lean far enough?

I have rigged the genoa lines as such: from the sail to the aft side
rail pulley to the mid deck pulley to the wraparound winch thing to a
regular two horn tiedown. I have no quick release like on the mainsail.
First issue is that it take me a long time to spill the genoa because
it is usually tied down to thee lee side and unwrapping the rope from
that two horn tiedown takes some time. I am used to quick releases on
both main and jib from my hobies. Should I be using some sort of slip
knot for quick release and should I run the line from the lee side
winch across the cockpit to the windward tie down so that I don't have
to go to the lee side of the boat when I really need my ballast on the
windward side?

Next, how do I determine if my boat has positive floatation and where
is my bilge pump, if I have one?

My mainsail rigging I am sure is inadequate, how can I figure out the
proper rigging?

Thanks in advance.

Danny

Great O'Day sites...

http://home.att.net/~oday/

http://www.odayowners.com/

They will probably answer your questions in a more civil matter then
here.....



wrote in message
ups.com...
I just bought a 1982 25 foot O'Day. I have no idea if there is a model
name or number. It has a HUGE genoa. My first question are about
safety. This boat has a retractable centerboard.

When I have the genoa out all the way any puff over 7 mph puts the boat
into a pretty scary lean and when I turn upwind to minimize the lean it
takes at least 4 seconds for the boat to straighten up. It begins a
nice turn immediately but the lee rail stays low. My HOBIE CAT Senses
yell "Capsize" when this is going on. Am I at risk of capsizing in a 15
knot wind with my monster genoa fully out or will I just lean like a
monster? Does it matter whether or not I have my centerboard down? Will
my centerboard possibly retract by itself if I lean far enough?

I have rigged the genoa lines as such: from the sail to the aft side
rail pulley to the mid deck pulley to the wraparound winch thing to a
regular two horn tiedown. I have no quick release like on the mainsail.
First issue is that it take me a long time to spill the genoa because
it is usually tied down to thee lee side and unwrapping the rope from
that two horn tiedown takes some time. I am used to quick releases on
both main and jib from my hobies. Should I be using some sort of slip
knot for quick release and should I run the line from the lee side
winch across the cockpit to the windward tie down so that I don't have
to go to the lee side of the boat when I really need my ballast on the
windward side?

Next, how do I determine if my boat has positive floatation and where
is my bilge pump, if I have one?

My mainsail rigging I am sure is inadequate, how can I figure out the
proper rigging?

Thanks in advance.

Danny

Danny,

Welcome to the world of Cruising.

You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control. This mean you still have enough hull in the water.

You do need to give a little more information. Is your Genny hanked on
to a head stay or do you have a Furler?
There are some things you can do. First you need to be sure of your sail
trim. That "Pulley" as you call it, is a Jib sheet tie down. It should
be positioned so that if you continued the line that is connected to the
Clew of the Genny it would bisect the the clew corner into two equal
halves for normal wind conditions. As the wind increases you want to
more the Jib Sheet toward the stern. This is to increase the twist in
the Genny to release some of the wind pressure on the upper section of
the sail. Most boats have the car (Pulley) mounted on a sliding track to
do this.

Next, if you're a Hobie sailor your training tells you to bump wind (
I'm working on converting a Hobie sailor to my crew right now) You
spoke of the tie on the Lee side Cleat. Don't tie the damn sheet, wrap
it on the cleat. Even better until you get to know your boat better,
don't wrap it on the Lee side cleat. After you've set the tension with
the winch, cross the sheet over to the windward side of the boat and
wrap it on the cleat behind the windward winch. This will satisfy your
need to bump wind. WRAP IT, don't tie it. It will hold!

You probably don't have positive flotation. Don't be to worried about
it. You won't capsize. Capsizing is for Blue Water Sailing with very
strong wind and huge wave action. Like I said you have to worry about
being knocked down. We call it,"Spearing Salmon with the spreaders" here
in the Northwest.

Tell us more about your boat and its rigging. Most boats today are
equipped with furling head sail, so that you can roll up part of the
Genny


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/NutsysTelescopic

You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control.

When and if you get over so far as to loose rudder control, the boat will
round up nicely into the wind on it's own. It really is not that big of a
deal in 15 knot winds. In fact I would suggest that you take the boat to
various limits, and intentionally do some things 'wrong' in 15 knot winds so
that you learn how your boat responds. It will be in stronger winds and big
seas that you do not want to make those mistakes.

Lonny

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Danny,

Welcome to the world of Cruising.

You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control. This mean you still have enough hull in the water.

You do need to give a little more information. Is your Genny hanked on
to a head stay or do you have a Furler?
There are some things you can do. First you need to be sure of your sail
trim. That "Pulley" as you call it, is a Jib sheet tie down. It should
be positioned so that if you continued the line that is connected to the
Clew of the Genny it would bisect the the clew corner into two equal
halves for normal wind conditions. As the wind increases you want to
more the Jib Sheet toward the stern. This is to increase the twist in
the Genny to release some of the wind pressure on the upper section of
the sail. Most boats have the car (Pulley) mounted on a sliding track to
do this.

Next, if you're a Hobie sailor your training tells you to bump wind (
I'm working on converting a Hobie sailor to my crew right now) You
spoke of the tie on the Lee side Cleat. Don't tie the damn sheet, wrap
it on the cleat. Even better until you get to know your boat better,
don't wrap it on the Lee side cleat. After you've set the tension with
the winch, cross the sheet over to the windward side of the boat and
wrap it on the cleat behind the windward winch. This will satisfy your
need to bump wind. WRAP IT, don't tie it. It will hold!

You probably don't have positive flotation. Don't be to worried about
it. You won't capsize. Capsizing is for Blue Water Sailing with very
strong wind and huge wave action. Like I said you have to worry about
being knocked down. We call it,"Spearing Salmon with the spreaders" here
in the Northwest.

Tell us more about your boat and its rigging. Most boats today are
equipped with furling head sail, so that you can roll up part of the
Genny


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/NutsysTelescopic

Lonny Bruce wrote:
When and if you get over so far as to loose rudder control, the boat will
round up nicely into the wind on it's own.

Not necessarily. A big genoa (especially an old baggy blown-out one)
will drag the bow downwind.


... It really is not that big of a
deal in 15 knot winds.

I'd tend to agree except that it's a bummer and it could happen at an
inconvenient time such as when passing another boat.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Not necessarity, and not only when it's convenient. Big jib, lots of lee
helm, especially if overpowered.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lonny Bruce" wrote in message
news:s%XSd.44083$uc.7316@trnddc03...
You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control.

When and if you get over so far as to loose rudder control, the boat will
round up nicely into the wind on it's own. It really is not that big of a
deal in 15 knot winds. In fact I would suggest that you take the boat to
various limits, and intentionally do some things 'wrong' in 15 knot winds
so that you learn how your boat responds. It will be in stronger winds
and big seas that you do not want to make those mistakes.

Lonny

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Danny,

Welcome to the world of Cruising.

You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control. This mean you still have enough hull in the water.

You do need to give a little more information. Is your Genny hanked on
to a head stay or do you have a Furler?
There are some things you can do. First you need to be sure of your sail
trim. That "Pulley" as you call it, is a Jib sheet tie down. It should
be positioned so that if you continued the line that is connected to the
Clew of the Genny it would bisect the the clew corner into two equal
halves for normal wind conditions. As the wind increases you want to
more the Jib Sheet toward the stern. This is to increase the twist in
the Genny to release some of the wind pressure on the upper section of
the sail. Most boats have the car (Pulley) mounted on a sliding track to
do this.

Next, if you're a Hobie sailor your training tells you to bump wind (
I'm working on converting a Hobie sailor to my crew right now) You
spoke of the tie on the Lee side Cleat. Don't tie the damn sheet, wrap
it on the cleat. Even better until you get to know your boat better,
don't wrap it on the Lee side cleat. After you've set the tension with
the winch, cross the sheet over to the windward side of the boat and
wrap it on the cleat behind the windward winch. This will satisfy your
need to bump wind. WRAP IT, don't tie it. It will hold!

You probably don't have positive flotation. Don't be to worried about
it. You won't capsize. Capsizing is for Blue Water Sailing with very
strong wind and huge wave action. Like I said you have to worry about
being knocked down. We call it,"Spearing Salmon with the spreaders" here
in the Northwest.

Tell us more about your boat and its rigging. Most boats today are
equipped with furling head sail, so that you can roll up part of the
Genny


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/NutsysTelescopic

Again, I dissagree. We are talking about a knockdown here. A knockdown
means the boat is laying on it's side, perhaps with a small amount of
forward momentum left. The shape of the hull will make the boat round up
into the wind. At this point, the jib is not holding much or any air. Is
not a factor, at least not a big one.

I have seem many sailors think that being heeled way over is a 'knockdown'.
It isn't.

Lonny

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


"JG" wrote in message
...
Not necessarity, and not only when it's convenient. Big jib, lots of lee
helm, especially if overpowered.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lonny Bruce" wrote in message
news:s%XSd.44083$uc.7316@trnddc03...
You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control.

When and if you get over so far as to loose rudder control, the boat will
round up nicely into the wind on it's own. It really is not that big of
a deal in 15 knot winds. In fact I would suggest that you take the boat
to various limits, and intentionally do some things 'wrong' in 15 knot
winds so that you learn how your boat responds. It will be in stronger
winds and big seas that you do not want to make those mistakes.

Lonny

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Danny,

Welcome to the world of Cruising.

You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control. This mean you still have enough hull in the water.

You do need to give a little more information. Is your Genny hanked on
to a head stay or do you have a Furler?
There are some things you can do. First you need to be sure of your sail
trim. That "Pulley" as you call it, is a Jib sheet tie down. It should
be positioned so that if you continued the line that is connected to the
Clew of the Genny it would bisect the the clew corner into two equal
halves for normal wind conditions. As the wind increases you want to
more the Jib Sheet toward the stern. This is to increase the twist in
the Genny to release some of the wind pressure on the upper section of
the sail. Most boats have the car (Pulley) mounted on a sliding track to
do this.

Next, if you're a Hobie sailor your training tells you to bump wind (
I'm working on converting a Hobie sailor to my crew right now) You
spoke of the tie on the Lee side Cleat. Don't tie the damn sheet, wrap
it on the cleat. Even better until you get to know your boat better,
don't wrap it on the Lee side cleat. After you've set the tension with
the winch, cross the sheet over to the windward side of the boat and
wrap it on the cleat behind the windward winch. This will satisfy your
need to bump wind. WRAP IT, don't tie it. It will hold!

You probably don't have positive flotation. Don't be to worried about
it. You won't capsize. Capsizing is for Blue Water Sailing with very
strong wind and huge wave action. Like I said you have to worry about
being knocked down. We call it,"Spearing Salmon with the spreaders" here
in the Northwest.

Tell us more about your boat and its rigging. Most boats today are
equipped with furling head sail, so that you can roll up part of the
Genny


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/NutsysTelescopic

It would be a huge factor if, as you say, the boat rounds up as it's
supposed to do. What do you think will happen next... probably a
broach...then the same thing on the other tack.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lonny Bruce" wrote in message
news:UvlTd.16493$uc.16205@trnddc09...
Again, I dissagree. We are talking about a knockdown here. A knockdown
means the boat is laying on it's side, perhaps with a small amount of
forward momentum left. The shape of the hull will make the boat round up
into the wind. At this point, the jib is not holding much or any air. Is
not a factor, at least not a big one.

I have seem many sailors think that being heeled way over is a
'knockdown'. It isn't.

Lonny

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


"JG" wrote in message
...
Not necessarity, and not only when it's convenient. Big jib, lots of lee
helm, especially if overpowered.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lonny Bruce" wrote in message
news:s%XSd.44083$uc.7316@trnddc03...
You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control.

When and if you get over so far as to loose rudder control, the boat
will round up nicely into the wind on it's own. It really is not that
big of a deal in 15 knot winds. In fact I would suggest that you take
the boat to various limits, and intentionally do some things 'wrong' in
15 knot winds so that you learn how your boat responds. It will be in
stronger winds and big seas that you do not want to make those mistakes.

Lonny

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Danny,

Welcome to the world of Cruising.

You probably won't capsize but you will suffer a damn knock down, which
can be bad If you can turn up into the wind it means you still have
rudder control. This mean you still have enough hull in the water.

You do need to give a little more information. Is your Genny hanked on
to a head stay or do you have a Furler?
There are some things you can do. First you need to be sure of your
sail
trim. That "Pulley" as you call it, is a Jib sheet tie down. It should
be positioned so that if you continued the line that is connected to
the
Clew of the Genny it would bisect the the clew corner into two equal
halves for normal wind conditions. As the wind increases you want to
more the Jib Sheet toward the stern. This is to increase the twist in
the Genny to release some of the wind pressure on the upper section of
the sail. Most boats have the car (Pulley) mounted on a sliding track
to
do this.

Next, if you're a Hobie sailor your training tells you to bump wind (
I'm working on converting a Hobie sailor to my crew right now) You
spoke of the tie on the Lee side Cleat. Don't tie the damn sheet, wrap
it on the cleat. Even better until you get to know your boat better,
don't wrap it on the Lee side cleat. After you've set the tension with
the winch, cross the sheet over to the windward side of the boat and
wrap it on the cleat behind the windward winch. This will satisfy your
need to bump wind. WRAP IT, don't tie it. It will hold!

You probably don't have positive flotation. Don't be to worried about
it. You won't capsize. Capsizing is for Blue Water Sailing with very
strong wind and huge wave action. Like I said you have to worry about
being knocked down. We call it,"Spearing Salmon with the spreaders"
here
in the Northwest.

Tell us more about your boat and its rigging. Most boats today are
equipped with furling head sail, so that you can roll up part of the
Genny


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/NutsysTelescopic

Man, you are an accident waiting to happen....

I'm assuming your genoa must be a 160% id you're getting that kind of heel
on 15 knots....One way to solve that problem is to get a roller furler and
get it refitted for a furler and then you can reduce sail and baring that,
get a smaller jib, say a 110, for everyday sailing (160's are great for
drifting around or of you're shudder one of those people who sails on jib
alone...) next you need to learn how to cleat off your sheets....you want
those lines to go free if something bad happens...some people put in stopper
knots...we were taught that that is dangerous and you're better off with a
flogging sail then trying to get a line free under stress....next thing...
if you're going to weather why the heck would you want your centerboard
up??? you need that fin down io the water to stabilize the boat, for Pete's
sake....you reaise the centerboard going downwind so you can plane
some...but most people I know with that size boats don't try to dinghy sail
a cruiser...you use the centerboard when you ht shallows or shoals so you
have more water to sail....4 seconds to right from the situation you're
describing doesn't sound bad....you don't want instantaneous righting and
motion...it's bad for the rigging...you want nice graceful and slow
movements...my bet is you're just not used to heeling over yet...
On both our O'Day 22 and our O'Day 27 the bilge pump was _SURPRISE_ in the
bilge! The bilge is under the floorboard in the cabin of your boat....

You really need to go sailing with some other folks, learn some terminology,
and practice before you end up killing yourself.
wrote in message
ups.com...
I just bought a 1982 25 foot O'Day. I have no idea if there is a model
name or number. It has a HUGE genoa. My first question are about
safety. This boat has a retractable centerboard.

When I have the genoa out all the way any puff over 7 mph puts the boat
into a pretty scary lean and when I turn upwind to minimize the lean it
takes at least 4 seconds for the boat to straighten up. It begins a
nice turn immediately but the lee rail stays low. My HOBIE CAT Senses
yell "Capsize" when this is going on. Am I at risk of capsizing in a 15
knot wind with my monster genoa fully out or will I just lean like a
monster? Does it matter whether or not I have my centerboard down? Will
my centerboard possibly retract by itself if I lean far enough?

I have rigged the genoa lines as such: from the sail to the aft side
rail pulley to the mid deck pulley to the wraparound winch thing to a
regular two horn tiedown. I have no quick release like on the mainsail.
First issue is that it take me a long time to spill the genoa because
it is usually tied down to thee lee side and unwrapping the rope from
that two horn tiedown takes some time. I am used to quick releases on
both main and jib from my hobies. Should I be using some sort of slip
knot for quick release and should I run the line from the lee side
winch across the cockpit to the windward tie down so that I don't have
to go to the lee side of the boat when I really need my ballast on the
windward side?

Next, how do I determine if my boat has positive floatation and where
is my bilge pump, if I have one?

My mainsail rigging I am sure is inadequate, how can I figure out the
proper rigging?

Thanks in advance.

Danny

When heeling over that far it is best to first let out the main sail. This
is where most of the heeling is coming from. Next reduce the size of the
jib, or main, or both. Each boat and each sail has it's own characteristics
and I am not sure which one you might want to do first, I suppose it would
depend upon your point of sail and conditions, etc.

Letting out the main will reduce heeling, reducing the size of the main
(reefing) will reduce heeling. That being said, you can be overcanvassed
with a big jib in 15 knots also. I could guess that the jib you are using
is used, tired, and is not that high of a quality sail anyway, probably
acts like a big baggy parachute, and if that is the case you might not want
to use such an ineffecient sail anyway.

Most newbies overtrim the main sail, confusing the extra heel they get by
doing so with forward momentum, but overtrimming a main sail will slow you
down, even though it may feel exciting and fast.

Lonny

--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


wrote in message
ups.com...
I just bought a 1982 25 foot O'Day. I have no idea if there is a model
name or number. It has a HUGE genoa. My first question are about
safety. This boat has a retractable centerboard.

When I have the genoa out all the way any puff over 7 mph puts the boat
into a pretty scary lean and when I turn upwind to minimize the lean it
takes at least 4 seconds for the boat to straighten up. It begins a
nice turn immediately but the lee rail stays low. My HOBIE CAT Senses
yell "Capsize" when this is going on. Am I at risk of capsizing in a 15
knot wind with my monster genoa fully out or will I just lean like a
monster? Does it matter whether or not I have my centerboard down? Will
my centerboard possibly retract by itself if I lean far enough?

I have rigged the genoa lines as such: from the sail to the aft side
rail pulley to the mid deck pulley to the wraparound winch thing to a
regular two horn tiedown. I have no quick release like on the mainsail.
First issue is that it take me a long time to spill the genoa because
it is usually tied down to thee lee side and unwrapping the rope from
that two horn tiedown takes some time. I am used to quick releases on
both main and jib from my hobies. Should I be using some sort of slip
knot for quick release and should I run the line from the lee side
winch across the cockpit to the windward tie down so that I don't have
to go to the lee side of the boat when I really need my ballast on the
windward side?

Next, how do I determine if my boat has positive floatation and where
is my bilge pump, if I have one?

My mainsail rigging I am sure is inadequate, how can I figure out the
proper rigging?

Thanks in advance.

Danny