Sail construction
 

Neal & others,

I added a few more pictures on the Home Page.

Neal I added a picture of my clew corner on page 3

Also a picture of a Christmas Gift from my crew of Ladies on my new
Coffee Mug

And for all a picture of the New Harken's Furler.

My Dog just came out to tell me is time for bed;

Good Night All,
Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Where's the pic of your homemade 'ATN Tacker'?

Scotty


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Neal & others,

I added a few more pictures on the Home Page.

Neal I added a picture of my clew corner on page 3

Also a picture of a Christmas Gift from my crew of Ladies on my new
Coffee Mug

And for all a picture of the New Harken's Furler.

My Dog just came out to tell me is time for bed;

Good Night All,
Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Nice pics but I don't see much of anything but shoddy workmanship on the clew
of your mainsail. Sure there is some webbing sloppily sewn to the somewhat
weak and puny clew patch but that means little or nothing.

http://captneal.homestead.com/newsails.html

Please note how the clew of my mainsail works as a system. The bolt rope
has plenty of holding power which spreads the load while the sliding slug
is attached firmly with webbing. There are eight (count 'em, eight) layers
of 6.9 oz American made Dacron reinforcing the clew and the clew cringle
is machine pressed through all eight layers. The layers get progressively
larger so that the largest patch is a full three feet from the clew itself.

The sail will tear in half at it's mid point long before this sturdy clew
is even stretched significantly.

CN


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Neal & others,

I added a few more pictures on the Home Page.

Neal I added a picture of my clew corner on page 3

Also a picture of a Christmas Gift from my crew of Ladies on my new
Coffee Mug

And for all a picture of the New Harken's Furler.

My Dog just came out to tell me is time for bed;

Good Night All,
Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

"Capt. Neal®" wrote

The sail will tear in half at it's mid point long before this sturdy
clew
is even stretched significantly.

That's what you get for being cheap.

SV

Good American sailcloth lovingly sewn in Hong Kong using a combination of
machine and hand-stitching from dedicated Chinese factory workers produces
a product superior to the North Sail, for example, that is farmed out to Mexican
and commie Korean workers who have never even seen a sail boat.

CN




"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...

"Capt. Neal®" wrote

The sail will tear in half at it's mid point long before this sturdy
clew
is even stretched significantly.

That's what you get for being cheap.

SV

Neal,

I'm not sure you truly understand your main sail. That bolt rope on the
foot of a shelved main give NO SUPPORT! A shelved main is a free footed
main and anchored only at the TACK and the CLEW. That shelve is an
elastic material which is designed to let the full airflow shape of the
sail continue to the bottom of the sail. It is the assure that the air
doesn't form a vortex at the Boom. The material is meant to be loose
enough to let sail shape carry to the foot of the sail.

All those layers of of cloth mean didderly without the stitching to
prevent the shearing action that take place at the Clew corner. The slug
is a nice feature but a Clew Strap is something you should install. With
a free footed sail an awful lot of strain is put on the Boom slut.

Neal, my friend, you have a weak Clew on that sail.

Ole Thom
P/S Neal, stop kidding yourself that the shelve is working as a system
for STRENGTH. It isn't!!


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Thom,

I'm not sure you understand MY shelf-footed main. It has no elastic material
comprising the shelf. It has the same 6.9oz Dacron as the rest of the sail. It
is the shape of the panel that constitutes the shelf foot that gives it it's shape.

The bolt rope definitely gives the foot of the sail support as it slides into the
internal track in the boom. Note in the photo how the sliding slug and the bolt
rope line up. Both keep the foot onto the boom and have the added virtue of
spreading out the forces over a greater area than with a clew only like your
set-up.

My friend you have a weak understanding of my clew and sails in
general. Anybody who can even abide a roll-up headsail proves he
has low standards and is willing to compromise performance for
convenience, which convenience leads to all sorts of additional
problems usually at the very worst times.

And, of course, all those layers at the clew patch are sewn together.
Done properly, which they are, those webbing straps are as unnecessary
as tits on a boar hog.

CN

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Neal,

I'm not sure you truly understand your main sail. That bolt rope on the
foot of a shelved main give NO SUPPORT! A shelved main is a free footed
main and anchored only at the TACK and the CLEW. That shelve is an
elastic material which is designed to let the full airflow shape of the
sail continue to the bottom of the sail. It is the assure that the air
doesn't form a vortex at the Boom. The material is meant to be loose
enough to let sail shape carry to the foot of the sail.

All those layers of of cloth mean didderly without the stitching to
prevent the shearing action that take place at the Clew corner. The slug
is a nice feature but a Clew Strap is something you should install. With
a free footed sail an awful lot of strain is put on the Boom slut.

Neal, my friend, you have a weak Clew on that sail.

Ole Thom
P/S Neal, stop kidding yourself that the shelve is working as a system
for STRENGTH. It isn't!!


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Well Neal,

You're proven you inability to accept the truth about the action of a
"Wing Keel", the fact of a low profile PH, the advantage of a furler on
a cruising boat, and now the actual operation of your own Main Sail. The
scope of your known ignorance continues to grow. Explanation seems
hopeless.

I will try, once again, to enlighten you. Your SHELVE, it has excess
material so that as the foot of the sail forms its curve there is no
resistance applied by the shelve. As you flatten your sail, the shelve
folds on itself. This is what I refereed to as an elastic action. If you
knew what the hell the shelve is doing you wouldn't be jumping to WRONG
conclusions.

Your sail's foot is only supported at the TACK and CLEW. You have the
same support as you would have if the sail was REEFED. There would be no
support from the Folded Part of the sail. That is the best example I can
think of right now.

Neal, your new main IS A FREE FOOTED sail/ with a shelve. Why can't you
understand that a shelve give no more support to the foot of the sail
than the reefed section of the sail


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Comments to help assist you in overcoming your misconceptions are
interspersed below.


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Well Neal,

You're proven you inability to accept the truth about the action of a
"Wing Keel", the fact of a low profile PH, the advantage of a furler on
a cruising boat, and now the actual operation of your own Main Sail. The
scope of your known ignorance continues to grow. Explanation seems
hopeless.

You don't have a wing keel. You have a keel with end plates. In order for
it to be a wing keel the end plates must have a NACA foil section to them.
You have silly flat plates that are NOT wings.


I will try, once again, to enlighten you. Your SHELVE, it has excess
material so that as the foot of the sail forms its curve there is no
resistance applied by the shelve.

No resistance? Is that why the mainsail will stay put even if their
is only an aft force placed on the clew? If your argument was correct
the sail would also need downward force at the clew. Make no mistake,
a shelf-footed sail with a boltrope in the boom has it's shape maintained
by the foot and clew and not the clew alone as you suggest.

As you flatten your sail, the shelve
folds on itself. This is what I refereed to as an elastic action. If you
knew what the hell the shelve is doing you wouldn't be jumping to WRONG
conclusions.

I don't jump to wrong conclusions. It is presumptious of you to assume
you know more about my mainsail that I know about it. But, the do say
old farts get set in their ways so I forgive you your ignorance and
haughtiness.

Your sail's foot is only supported at the TACK and CLEW. You have the
same support as you would have if the sail was REEFED. There would be no
support from the Folded Part of the sail. That is the best example I can
think of right now.

Wrong, again. The foot is supported by the bolt rope as well as by the clew.
Do you forget all about air pressure?

Neal, your new main IS A FREE FOOTED sail/ with a shelve. Why can't you
understand that a shelve give no more support to the foot of the sail
than the reefed section of the sail

Why can't you understand you are looking it the entire picture and seeing
only a few pixels?

CN

I doubt you even know what a seaway is. . .

CN


"Dave" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:33:27 -0500, Capt. Neal®
said:

Anybody who can even abide a roll-up headsail proves he
has low standards and is willing to compromise performance for
convenience, which convenience leads to all sorts of additional
problems usually at the very worst times.

LOL. You have an incredible ability to make virtue of necessity. Can't
afford roller furling? Claim you do without it for improved sail shape.
Can't afford the hardware to control your halyards from the cockpit? Pretend
it's a virtue to have to run to the mast to drop your sails.

BTW, on my old boat I used to store the halyard ends as you do while
underway. When they came loose in a seaway I learned to put a shock cord
sail stop around them.

Dave

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Good American sailcloth lovingly sewn in Hong Kong using a combination of
machine and hand-stitching from dedicated Chinese factory workers produces
a product superior to the North Sail, for example, that is farmed out to
Mexican
and commie Korean workers who have never even seen a sail boat.

Are you saying that the Chinese aren't commies?

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

I'm not sure you understand MY shelf-footed main. It has no elastic
material
comprising the shelf. It has the same 6.9oz Dacron as the rest of the
sail. It
is the shape of the panel that constitutes the shelf foot that gives it
it's shape.

Only when the outhaul is set such that the sail can belly out to the extent
allowed by the shelf foot. Tighten the outhaul, and the shelf foot becomes a
loose 'bag' along the boom.

Last time I looked, Hong Kong was a free, capitalist society
with no commies in charge of anything. Hong Kong used to
be a British Colony. Good Grief!

CN


"Wally" wrote in message . ..
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Good American sailcloth lovingly sewn in Hong Kong using a combination of
machine and hand-stitching from dedicated Chinese factory workers produces
a product superior to the North Sail, for example, that is farmed out to
Mexican
and commie Korean workers who have never even seen a sail boat.

Are you saying that the Chinese aren't commies?

If I desired to pull my outhaul all the way out so the sail is flat then
why would I bother having a shelf foot. The shape of the main is
optimal with the shelf in place.

CN


"Wally" wrote in message . ..
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

I'm not sure you understand MY shelf-footed main. It has no elastic
material
comprising the shelf. It has the same 6.9oz Dacron as the rest of the
sail. It
is the shape of the panel that constitutes the shelf foot that gives it
it's shape.

Only when the outhaul is set such that the sail can belly out to the extent
allowed by the shelf foot. Tighten the outhaul, and the shelf foot becomes a
loose 'bag' along the boom.

OK Neal,

You've proven your point of ignorance. I admit to my inability to show
you the obvious. This is rather like your insisting
on the air being heavier in a Low Pressure Area because of the moisture
(G) I failed to show you the error of your way there also. I still try
but I'm learning to call it quits after trying

If your happy; so be it!

OT


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Nice try Wally,

I would like Crappy to get the concept. Can't believe he doesn't
understand.

Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

If I desired to pull my outhaul all the way out so the sail is flat then
why would I bother having a shelf foot. The shape of the main is
optimal with the shelf in place.

I thought the idea was to use the outhaul to flatten the main in heavy wind;
and let it out for more belly in light wind.

Wrong Again Crapton;

Hong Kong is now a part of China under the Communist Gov. control.
OT


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message news:671-41F6B9B9-

I would like Crappy to get the concept. Can't believe he doesn't
understand.

When a sweet, innocent, fresh-faced n00b can grasp it, it shows how much of
a blowhard the Crapton is.

That may be a racing mentality but for cruisers, one reefs in heavy wind.

CN


"Wally" wrote in message . ..
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

If I desired to pull my outhaul all the way out so the sail is flat then
why would I bother having a shelf foot. The shape of the main is
optimal with the shelf in place.

I thought the idea was to use the outhaul to flatten the main in heavy wind;
and let it out for more belly in light wind.

Sorry, Thom. You are wrong again.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/hk.html


"Occupied by the UK in 1841, Hong Kong was formally ceded by China the following year; various adjacent lands were added later in
the 19th century. Pursuant to an agreement signed by China and the UK on 19 December 1984, Hong Kong became the Hong Kong Special
Administrative Region (SAR) of China on 1 July 1997. In this agreement, China has promised that, under its "one country, two
systems" formula, China's socialist economic system will not be imposed on Hong Kong and that Hong Kong will enjoy a high degree of
autonomy in all matters except foreign and defense affairs for the next 50 years. "

CN



"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Wrong Again Crapton;

Hong Kong is now a part of China under the Communist Gov. control.
OT


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

That may be a racing mentality but for cruisers, one reefs in heavy wind.

So, short of reefing, you're saying that there's only one required sail
shape for everythng up to, say, 20 knots, regardles of point of sailing? And
that the outhaul is redundant insofar as it offers adjustment of the sail's
belly?

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:30:44 -0800, (Thom Stewart)
wrote:

With
a free footed sail an awful lot of strain is put on the Boom slut.

Now, English isn't my first (or second) language....but somehow I've a
feeling there's a typo somewhere...if not, please fill me in.

Cheers!


Remco

Slot, not slut . . .


"Remco Moedt" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:30:44 -0800, (Thom Stewart)
wrote:

With
a free footed sail an awful lot of strain is put on the Boom slut.

Now, English isn't my first (or second) language....but somehow I've a
feeling there's a typo somewhere...if not, please fill me in.

Cheers!


Remco

Last time I looked, Hong Kong was a free, capitalist society
with no commies in charge of anything. Hong Kong used to
be a British Colony. Good Grief!

CN

ah, you are a bit behind the times.

"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message

Exactly correct. The designed shape of a mainsail for cruising does not
have
to be adjusted, either flattened or fattened in the normal wind range. My
mainsail
needs to be reefed around twenty knots on the first reef and around thirty
five
knots on the second reef.

Why does your boat have an outhaul, then?


Racers fool around with flattening sails but they argue about it. Some
claim a full
sail is best in light wind and others claim you should flatten the sail in
light wind.

I would be interested to hear why flattening the sail in light winds is
better than fattening it.


From the racing I've seen it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I
say,
keep the designed shape of the sail and don't fool around with it because
to
do so only makes it less efficient. How many airplane wings change their
shape
in the cruising speed range? Answer, none!

Invalid comparison. A plane wing that's designed for a slow plane is fatter
than one for a fast plane. Every plane fattens its wings, by means of the
flaps, for take-off and landing - much slower than its cruising speed,
whatever that might be. The range of winds that a sailboat might find itself
in doesn't equate to a notion of 'cruising speed range' - sailboats
experience a wide range of wind speeds. and have to set the profile of the
sail that's appropriate for the current wind speed. That's why they have
outhauls.

OzOne wrote


I believe that Cappy is a set and forget sailor.
I wonder what he'll do as the sail shape changes with wind strength

Check the anchor and open another beer?

wrote:


If your happy; so be it!


I'm not so much "happy" as I am GAY.

BBob

Old age and its effects can be understood and forgiven.

Being a total asshole willingly cannot.

Get lost, asshole!

CN


wrote in message ...
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:28:55 -0500, Capt. Neal® wrote:

Sorry, Thom. You are wrong again.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/hk.html


"Occupied by the UK in 1841, Hong Kong was formally ceded by China the following year; various adjacent lands were added later in
the 19th century. Pursuant to an agreement signed by China and the UK on 19 December 1984, Hong Kong became the Hong Kong Special
Administrative Region (SAR) of China on 1 July 1997. In this agreement, China has promised that, under its "one country, two
systems" formula, China's socialist economic system will not be imposed on Hong Kong and that Hong Kong will enjoy a high degree
of
autonomy in all matters except foreign and defense affairs for the next 50 years. "

CN


Thom has already demonstrated very completely that he has no grasp of geography
or navigation. He insists that he took a trip in a boat through places that
simply don't exist. When called on it, he dug himself even deeper with
corrections to his original statement that were even more incorrect. He just
kept piling more errors on top of errors. He even made up a story about what he
"thought" was the reason Shelter Island was so named. Wrong again!

He was a dullard when younger, and now that he is getting senile, it's really
hopeless.

BB


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Wrong Again Crapton;

Hong Kong is now a part of China under the Communist Gov. control.
OT


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Remco,

I sail with a female crew but not a SLUT among them'

A typo! excuse me.

Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Wally,

Neal may not move the outhaul because he doesn't want add any stress to
that Clew corner and the skimpy stitching. I can see his point but I
don't think it will help in the long run.

Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Maybe he's worried his galvanized pipe boom will bend , back to
straight.

Scotty

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wally,

Neal may not move the outhaul because he doesn't want add any stress
to
that Clew corner and the skimpy stitching. I can see his point but I
don't think it will help in the long run.

Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Neal,

That freedom of the Hong Kong people granted by the Chinese Communist
Gov is the reason for the Cargo Containers Loaded with the refugees from
Hong Kong trying to get into our West Coast and Canada, I guess they
just can't stand that much Freedom. I can't seem to remember people
fleeing like that under the British Rule, mostly because it wasn't
happening.

Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage

Neal.

Thanks for speaking up for the Old Man but you're just talking back to
'Net Static with distorted repeats of sent post. Simply tune it out.

You can't use logic with STATIC. Tune it out!

Ole Thom


http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsHomePage