Cruising Canada and past DWIs
 

Hi, any americans here who has gotten a DWI in their past ever tried to
cruise canada? From what I understand, having a DWI (even if pretty
old) means you are not legally allowed into canada, which of course
would apply to cruisers as well. Just wondering if anyone has run into
problems here or found a way around it?

"Russell" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, any americans here who has gotten a DWI in their past ever tried to
cruise canada? From what I understand, having a DWI (even if pretty
old) means you are not legally allowed into canada, which of course
would apply to cruisers as well. Just wondering if anyone has run into
problems here or found a way around it?


Live right across the the river from Canada, never heard that one before.
When you call in to Canada Customs at the marina, all they ask are the basic
questions. AFAIK, you don't need a valid drivers license to sail into
Canadian waters or land in Canada.

John Cairns

John Cairns wrote:

Live right across the the river from Canada, never heard that one before.
When you call in to Canada Customs at the marina, all they ask are the basic
questions. AFAIK, you don't need a valid drivers license to sail into
Canadian waters or land in Canada.

Canadian West Coast bureaucrats seem to have a different take on things.
I have worked on both the Alaska and the Washington State ferry
systems which have routes that serve Canadian ports.

The Canadian government demanded that no crewmember of any Washington
State vessel that enters Canadian waters may have a DWI conviction. The
ferry system actually took crewmen off vessels on those runs even though
the vessel, under international law, is a sovereign part of the USA and
the crewmember, who meets all USCG legal and documentation standards to
sail anywhere in the world under US protection, does not set one foot on
Canadian soil.

At the northern end of the Canadian west coast, the guards at Prince
Rupert will allow convicted DWI's to enter the country after paying a
nonrefundable "bond" of some sort. There is no requirement that the
ferry crews have pristine backgrounds beyond what the USCG requires.

It is amazing that the "policy" can be so different across the country.
It is incredible that the US government allows Washington State to
ignore international law and more amazing that the (admittedly few) crew
who have lost or been denied jobs aboard ferries on Canadian runs have
not screamed to high Heavens.

Rick

Why should they cry to High Heaven?

One who gets a DWI in an auto, IMO would be much more likely to get
drunk afloat at the helm.

And as a paid mariner that is to great of a risk.

Might be harsh for cruisers, but the canooks have enough to deal with
trying to keep all the locals in line.

Joe

Joe wrote:

Why should they cry to High Heaven?

Because, while the Canadians have every right and authority to stipulate
who may step ashore on Canadian soil they have no right by treaty or
other law to control who may serve aboard an American flag vessel.

There are a couple of centuries of legal and military precedent to
support the right of American seaman to pursue their trade aboard
American flag vessels without interference from any foreign government.

If the USCG allows a seaman to hold a document and perform the duties of
a crewmember aboard an American flag vessel under the authority of that
document no foreign government has any right to amend that authority. We
have fought wars to defend the rights of American seamen to pursue their
trade.

Don't be in such a hurry to trash your own rights and our nation's
sovereignty.

Rick

Of dozens of trips to Canada I was only asked once, that was in Toronto
airport while on a business trip and was pulled aside for further
questioning about the purpose of my visit. I was granted entry under NAFTA
but was asked if I had a DUI or was convicted of a a misdemeanor or felony.
I said no, which was accurate and was allowed to enter, I am not sure if/how
they would check the validity of the response. I think this is a way to
deny entry to people they consider to be marginal and my guess is that it is
selectively enforced. Most of my experience is with the east coast I do
know from experience that they interpret the rules differently at
differently entry points, and it also comes down to the skill and discretion
of the agent.

Rick wrote in message ...
You would appear to be correct, though how they would actually find
out is beyond me.

"INADMISSIBLE CLASSES:

Members of Inadmissible Classes include those who have been convicted
of MINOR OFFENCES (including shoplifting, theft, assault, dangerous
driving, unauthorized possession of a firearm, possession of illegal
substances, etc.), or of INDICTABLE CRIMINAL OFFENCES (including
assault with a deadly weapon, manslaughter, etc.). As well, those who
have been convicted of DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED (DWI) are considered
Members of an Inadmissible Class. Driving while under the influence of
alcohol is regarded as an extremely serious offence in Canada."

From:
http://www.canadianembassy.org/immigration/inadmissible-en.asp

Joe wrote:
Why should they cry to High Heaven?

One who gets a DWI in an auto, IMO would be much more likely to get
drunk afloat at the helm.

And as a paid mariner that is to great of a risk.

Might be harsh for cruisers, but the canooks have enough to deal with
trying to keep all the locals in line.


Good thing President Bush doesn't go to Canada by boat when he visits there.

DSK

Jetcap wrote:
Joe wrote:

Why should they cry to High Heaven?

Because, while the Canadians have every right and authority to
stipulate
who may step ashore on Canadian soil they have no right by treaty or
other law to control who may serve aboard an American flag vessel.

They do if the said vessel unloads anything or tie to any Canada dock.

First thing I was tought at a young seaman is when your in a forien
land you are held to thier laws.

We should just ban any American ferries from landing in Canada or from
coming from Canada and kill off all money they make from our ships,
that will change thier tune in a heartbeat. Still they have a right to
make laws that apply to landing in Canada.

Just like we do not allow terrorist types on any ship that docks here
in America. We now check the crew manifest of every ship that unloads
anything

So the smart thing to do now if you want to hit the dock or landing in
Canaduh is to not get a DWI.

Joe



There are a couple of centuries of legal and military precedent to
support the right of American seaman to pursue their trade aboard
American flag vessels without interference from any foreign
government.

If the USCG allows a seaman to hold a document and perform the duties
of
a crewmember aboard an American flag vessel under the authority of
that
document no foreign government has any right to amend that authority.
We
have fought wars to defend the rights of American seamen to pursue
their
trade.

Don't be in such a hurry to trash your own rights and our nation's
sovereignty.

Rick

"Jetcap" wrote in message
It is amazing that the "policy" can be so different across the country. It
is incredible that the US government allows Washington State to ignore
international law and more amazing that the (admittedly few) crew who have
lost or been denied jobs aboard ferries on Canadian runs have not screamed
to high Heavens.

Rick

Oh Boo Hoo....

It's amazing you can grab a Canadian Citizen and ship them to another
country to be tortured... that's what's amazing! It's friggin' amazing no
Canadian can even enter the USA with a possession record for pot... let
alone DUI.... that's what's friggin' amazing!

Shut the **** up you ****in' cry babies!

CM

Same thing in reverse Bucko!!

Rick wrote in message ...
You would appear to be correct, though how they would actually find
out is beyond me.

"INADMISSIBLE CLASSES:

Members of Inadmissible Classes include those who have been convicted
of MINOR OFFENCES (including shoplifting, theft, assault, dangerous
driving, unauthorized possession of a firearm, possession of illegal
substances, etc.), or of INDICTABLE CRIMINAL OFFENCES (including
assault with a deadly weapon, manslaughter, etc.). As well, those who
have been convicted of DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED (DWI) are considered
Members of an Inadmissible Class. Driving while under the influence of
alcohol is regarded as an extremely serious offence in Canada."

From:
http://www.canadianembassy.org/immigration/inadmissible-en.asp

Mooron, you really shouldn't post when you're sober.

Scotty

"Overproof" wrote in message
news:9yjCd.30283$nN6.10601@edtnps84...

"Jetcap" wrote in message
It is amazing that the "policy" can be so different across the
country. It
is incredible that the US government allows Washington State to
ignore
international law and more amazing that the (admittedly few) crew
who have
lost or been denied jobs aboard ferries on Canadian runs have not
screamed
to high Heavens.

Rick

Oh Boo Hoo....

It's amazing you can grab a Canadian Citizen and ship them to
another
country to be tortured... that's what's amazing! It's friggin'
amazing no
Canadian can even enter the USA with a possession record for pot...
let
alone DUI.... that's what's friggin' amazing!

Shut the **** up you ****in' cry babies!

CM

Joe wrote:

They do if the said vessel unloads anything or tie to any Canada dock.
You are sadly misinformed about the laws that protect you as a seaman.
The port state may restrict a seaman from leaving the vessel but has
absolutely no say in who may sail aboard the vessel of another flag state.

The flag on a ship means something, just as it does on an embassy building.

First thing I was tought at a young seaman is when your in a forien
land you are held to thier laws.

Yes, Joe, and you should remember that to go ashore in a foreign country
you must hold a "shore pass" issued by the immigration agency of that
country. If that country chooses not to issue a pass the seaman must
remain aboard the vessel. That country, however, has no authority
whatsoever to say who may or may not serve aboard that vessel.

We should just ban any American ferries from landing in Canada or from
coming from Canada and kill off all money they make from our ships,
that will change thier tune in a heartbeat. Still they have a right to
make laws that apply to landing in Canada.

Yes, Joe, they can make all the laws they want about who can land. They
cannot make any law saying who can work on an American ship. The US Navy
was founded to stop that sort of thinking.

Just like we do not allow terrorist types on any ship that docks here
in America. We now check the crew manifest of every ship that unloads
anything

We have no authority to allow or disallow anyone to sail aboard a
foreign flag vessel. We may arrest them if they are fugitives wanted by
this or another country with whom we have a treaty that allows such
arrests, or we may prohibit them from leaving the vessel while it is
alongside. We have no right under international law to say who can or
cannot sail aboard the ship. We check the manifests to see what the
cargo is, we check the crew list to see if there is anyone aboard who is
"wanted" or who does not meet our standards to be granted shore leave.
If they are not otherwise eligible for permission to visit the US they
can't leave the ship in the US but we have no authority to deny them
employment on their ship.

You really need to take a high school social studies course and learn
something about history and the rights that a lot of Americans died to
defend. You seem awfully casual about trashing your own rights ...

Rick

Overproof wrote:

Oh Boo Hoo....

It's amazing you can grab a Canadian Citizen and ship them to another
country to be tortured... that's what's amazing!

And a lot of Americans screamed to high Heaven about it as well ... We
are not all junior Nazis.

It's friggin' amazing no
Canadian can even enter the USA with a possession record for pot... let
alone DUI....

Maybe when Americans with the same record can enter Canada things will
change ... have you contacted your MP to change Canada's policy on this
regarding Americans?

You clean up your back yard and we will work on ours. Maybe someday you
will be allowed to visit the US.

Rick

You seem to miss the fact that the ferries you were talking about must
use offloading equipment in Canada. So it is a partership operation,
half American half Canaduh. Therefore they have the right to put
restriction on who is qualified to do the job.

Most American shipping companies ask you if you have been conivicted
of a DWI or any chrime and they have the right to not hire you.

IMO anyone who has had a recent DWI should not be allowed on any
commerical vessel.

And we can turn away any vessel we think could be a security risk.
Several have been told they can not dock in Houston.

I'm not saying we have a right to tell any country who should serve on
a vessel, but we do have the right to tell the vessel to leave or deny
them entry all together.

Same as Canada, If they do not want drunks sailing in Canadian waters
than that is their right.

Perhaps they see it as a safety issue. Some of the vessels I worked on
would throw you off if you had a perferated ear drum.
IMO Canada is within it's rights.

Joe

Joe wrote:
You seem to miss the fact that the ferries you were talking about must
use offloading equipment in Canada.
??? Have you ever been around a RoRo vessel?

So it is a partership operation,
half American half Canaduh. Therefore they have the right to put
restriction on who is qualified to do the job.

Sorry, Joe ... you are obviously out of your depth here.

Most American shipping companies ask you if you have been conivicted
of a DWI or any chrime and they have the right to not hire you.

How long has it been since you sailed on an inspected vessel? Have you
ever heard of the USCG, STCW, MMD's and how the industry works since 1945?

IMO anyone who has had a recent DWI should not be allowed on any
commerical vessel.

Fortunately your opinion isn't worth much in international law and
maritime treaties.

Perhaps they see it as a safety issue.

The USCG sets safety standards on US flagged vessels. USCG standards
meet international standards agreed upon by Canada. They have no
authority to "see" things any other way. If they choose to refuse
permission for the ship to enter Canadian waters that is one thing, but
to deny employment aboard that ship to an American citizen seaman who
otherwise meets all US standards and is certificated by the USCG is
breaking international law.

You may not like the law but the law is based on a few hundred years of
maritime heritage and more than a few wars.

Some of the vessels I worked on
would throw you off if you had a perferated ear drum.

There was obviously no other restriction on holes in ones head.

Rick

Jetcap wrote:
Joe wrote:
You seem to miss the fact that the ferries you were talking about
must
use offloading equipment in Canada.
??? Have you ever been around a RoRo vessel?

yes.


So it is a partership operation,
half American half Canaduh. Therefore they have the right to put
restriction on who is qualified to do the job.

Sorry, Joe ... you are obviously out of your depth here.

So your saying Canada has no investment in a Roro landing, and mo part
of the operation?

Most American shipping companies ask you if you have been
conivicted
of a DWI or any chrime and they have the right to not hire you.

How long has it been since you sailed on an inspected vessel?

1996


Have you
ever heard of the USCG, STCW, MMD's and how the industry works since
1945?

Yes


IMO anyone who has had a recent DWI should not be allowed on any
commerical vessel.

Fortunately your opinion isn't worth much in international law and
maritime treaties.

Perhaps so. But if a man can not keep himself safe and in control of a
small car, why should we trust him around machinery that makes cars
look like fleas, Lets protect the lives of others.

I'm a for sailors getting as drunk or as stoned as they want to, but
not drink and drive, or sail if they can not handle whatever the drug
is they choose to use. Act like a man and be accountable for all your
actions good and bad.




Perhaps they see it as a safety issue.

The USCG sets safety standards on US flagged vessels. USCG standards
meet international standards agreed upon by Canada. They have no
authority to "see" things any other way. If they choose to refuse
permission for the ship to enter Canadian waters that is one thing,
but
to deny employment aboard that ship to an American citizen seaman who

otherwise meets all US standards and is certificated by the USCG is
breaking international law.


uhh if he has a prior DUI conviction the American citizen can not go to
Canada, much less get a job on a Canook ship.


You may not like the law but the law is based on a few hundred years
of
maritime heritage and more than a few wars.


You were Union right? Sheeeze no wonder..


Some of the vessels I worked on
would throw you off if you had a perferated ear drum.

There was obviously no other restriction on holes in ones head.


Should there be?

Joe

Rick

I'm busted up, hungover like hell, aching in places I didn't know I had, and
lacking a lot of sleep after a 5 day party..... I just don't have the
****in' patience to read dribble about how hard done by the USA is .... not
frickin' tonight.

I'm going to bed as soon as the Tylenol kicks in... I figure 6 of the extra
strength should get a hold on the pounding.... then I'll limp to the sofa
and pass out for 2 days!

CM


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Mooron, you really shouldn't post when you're sober.

Scotty

"Overproof" wrote in message
news:9yjCd.30283$nN6.10601@edtnps84...

"Jetcap" wrote in message
It is amazing that the "policy" can be so different across the
country. It
is incredible that the US government allows Washington State to
ignore
international law and more amazing that the (admittedly few) crew
who have
lost or been denied jobs aboard ferries on Canadian runs have not
screamed
to high Heavens.

Rick

Oh Boo Hoo....

It's amazing you can grab a Canadian Citizen and ship them to
another
country to be tortured... that's what's amazing! It's friggin'
amazing no
Canadian can even enter the USA with a possession record for pot...
let
alone DUI.... that's what's friggin' amazing!

Shut the **** up you ****in' cry babies!

CM

"Overproof" wrote in message
news:P2lCd.30317$nN6.1942@edtnps84...
I'm busted up, hungover like hell, aching in places I didn't know I had,
and lacking a lot of sleep after a 5 day party..... I just don't have the
****in' patience to read dribble about how hard done by the USA is ....
not frickin' tonight.

I'm going to bed as soon as the Tylenol kicks in... I figure 6 of the
extra strength should get a hold on the pounding.... then I'll limp to
the sofa and pass out for 2 days!

CM

Dude, you need to slow down a bit. That **** will make you old before your
time...............

John Cairns



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Mooron, you really shouldn't post when you're sober.

Scotty

"Overproof" wrote in message
news:9yjCd.30283$nN6.10601@edtnps84...

"Jetcap" wrote in message
It is amazing that the "policy" can be so different across the
country. It
is incredible that the US government allows Washington State to
ignore
international law and more amazing that the (admittedly few) crew
who have
lost or been denied jobs aboard ferries on Canadian runs have not
screamed
to high Heavens.

Rick

Oh Boo Hoo....

It's amazing you can grab a Canadian Citizen and ship them to
another
country to be tortured... that's what's amazing! It's friggin'
amazing no
Canadian can even enter the USA with a possession record for pot...
let
alone DUI.... that's what's friggin' amazing!

Shut the **** up you ****in' cry babies!

CM

"John Cairns" wrote in message

Dude, you need to slow down a bit. That **** will make you old before your
time...............

The heck wit dat John....... I'm good to go again and the meter is at 78%
of full functionality.
All I needed was some time to sleep. I'll relax today and then restock. I
got a date for next weekend with the young lady I spent a lot of time with
this past weekend. (she's a cute 26 year old hard-body brunette)

Dude... you should have seen the fireworks we set off..... 40 people
arrived to party at the farm and most brought those fireworks kits. We were
lighting fuses for 40 minutes. I only got into one fight and I chugged a
half bottle of overproof an hour before that.... (brunette's
ex-boyfriend).... we both got soaked wrestling around in the snow but I
managed to toss the young lad clear into the creek.

Head ache is gone, foot has healed up so I can walk without a limp.... the
burn blisters on my hand will take another few days.

How did your celebration go??? :-D

CM

"Overproof" wrote in message
news:u%zCd.44317$Y72.11609@edtnps91...

"John Cairns" wrote in message

Dude, you need to slow down a bit. That **** will make you old before
your time...............

The heck wit dat John....... I'm good to go again and the meter is at
78% of full functionality.
All I needed was some time to sleep. I'll relax today and then restock. I
got a date for next weekend with the young lady I spent a lot of time with
this past weekend. (she's a cute 26 year old hard-body brunette)

Dude... you should have seen the fireworks we set off..... 40 people
arrived to party at the farm and most brought those fireworks kits. We
were lighting fuses for 40 minutes. I only got into one fight and I
chugged a half bottle of overproof an hour before that.... (brunette's
ex-boyfriend).... we both got soaked wrestling around in the snow but I
managed to toss the young lad clear into the creek.

Head ache is gone, foot has healed up so I can walk without a limp.... the
burn blisters on my hand will take another few days.

How did your celebration go??? :-D

CM



Not a thing. Don't think we even watched the ball drop on tv. It's a lot
quieter down this way, when we used to live up the river, it would sound
like WWIII, automatic weapon fire, all that stuff.

John Cairns

"John Cairns" wrote in message
Not a thing. Don't think we even watched the ball drop on tv. It's a lot
quieter down this way, when we used to live up the river, it would sound
like WWIII, automatic weapon fire, all that stuff.

Damn...... that's too bad!

The folks up the hill at the other farm blasted off about 6 cases of
ammo.... the local stock of "unregistered' firearms I guess. It sounded
like a battlefield up there.

CM

We get weapon fire from the gun club at the end of the street....they let
off the fireworks first and then go for the guns....

"John Cairns" wrote in message
m...

"Overproof" wrote in message
news:u%zCd.44317$Y72.11609@edtnps91...

"John Cairns" wrote in message

Dude, you need to slow down a bit. That **** will make you old before
your time...............

The heck wit dat John....... I'm good to go again and the meter is at
78% of full functionality.
All I needed was some time to sleep. I'll relax today and then restock. I
got a date for next weekend with the young lady I spent a lot of time
with this past weekend. (she's a cute 26 year old hard-body brunette)

Dude... you should have seen the fireworks we set off..... 40 people
arrived to party at the farm and most brought those fireworks kits. We
were lighting fuses for 40 minutes. I only got into one fight and I
chugged a half bottle of overproof an hour before that.... (brunette's
ex-boyfriend).... we both got soaked wrestling around in the snow but I
managed to toss the young lad clear into the creek.

Head ache is gone, foot has healed up so I can walk without a limp....
the burn blisters on my hand will take another few days.

How did your celebration go??? :-D

CM



Not a thing. Don't think we even watched the ball drop on tv. It's a lot
quieter down this way, when we used to live up the river, it would sound
like WWIII, automatic weapon fire, all that stuff.

John Cairns