flying the chute?
 

any sage advice on flying the chute and flying it shorthanded
these days i usually sail with one other person aboard .-sometimes a non
sailor
someone is always capable of taking the helm.
i'd like to set it up for next season and wonder of there is anything i can
do to make it easier
the only experience i have with the chute is aboard a friends boat racing a
couple of times and that only involved trimming it.
i've yet to fly it on my boat.
i understand the general idea of flying it, but have some confusion about
raising it and dropping it.

do i have it right so far:

the spinni bag is on deck
probably on the windward side.
sheet and guy are run outside everything
the pole is attached at the mast and at the sail.
the boat is just slightly to windward of dead down wind (10 degrees)
and the sail is ready to be hoisted.
depending on conditions, i also imagine the jib should already be down
giving me one less thing to deal with until i have some more experience.
what next?

with the jib, usually when i singlehand, i'll set the helm, go forward to
raise the jib after "presetting" the jib sheets for the point of sail and
the wind conditions.
is this possible with a spinnaker?
i imagine the guy is preset before hoisting and the sheet can err on the
slack side for a brief time.

dropping the jib is cake walk.
how do you drop the spinnaker so it lands on deck and not in the water or
around the headstay?
here i think i need two crew?

thanks
(looks like i'll be reading glenan's again)
gf.

Use a snuffler if it's a big 'chute.

Cheers

gonefishiing wrote:

any sage advice on flying the chute and flying it shorthanded
these days i usually sail with one other person aboard .-sometimes a non
sailor
someone is always capable of taking the helm.
i'd like to set it up for next season and wonder of there is anything i can
do to make it easier
the only experience i have with the chute is aboard a friends boat racing a
couple of times and that only involved trimming it.
i've yet to fly it on my boat.
i understand the general idea of flying it, but have some confusion about
raising it and dropping it.

do i have it right so far:

the spinni bag is on deck
probably on the windward side.
sheet and guy are run outside everything
the pole is attached at the mast and at the sail.
the boat is just slightly to windward of dead down wind (10 degrees)
and the sail is ready to be hoisted.
depending on conditions, i also imagine the jib should already be down
giving me one less thing to deal with until i have some more experience.
what next?

with the jib, usually when i singlehand, i'll set the helm, go forward to
raise the jib after "presetting" the jib sheets for the point of sail and
the wind conditions.
is this possible with a spinnaker?
i imagine the guy is preset before hoisting and the sheet can err on the
slack side for a brief time.

dropping the jib is cake walk.
how do you drop the spinnaker so it lands on deck and not in the water or
around the headstay?
here i think i need two crew?

thanks
(looks like i'll be reading glenan's again)
gf.

the spinni bag is on deck
probably on the windward side.

Tough to launch a chute from a bag on the windward side.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

gonefishiing wrote:
any sage advice on flying the chute and flying it shorthanded

Sure.


the spinni bag is on deck

Might be easier to launch from the companionway if there's no snags waiting.

probably on the windward side.

IMHO it's much better to hoist in the lee of the mainsail

sheet and guy are run outside everything

Check

the pole is attached at the mast and at the sail.

Do you mean that the guy (windward spinnaker sheet) is run through the
pole end?

the boat is just slightly to windward of dead down wind (10 degrees)

Sounds good.

and the sail is ready to be hoisted.

Does that mean that you've already set the tack?

depending on conditions, i also imagine the jib should already be down
giving me one less thing to deal with until i have some more experience.

I dunno, if dropping the jib is that easy, it may be better to leave the
jib up. It keeps the spinny from wrapping itself around the headstay and
all else being equal, if the boat is moving faster it's easier to handle.


what next?

with the jib, usually when i singlehand, i'll set the helm, go forward to
raise the jib after "presetting" the jib sheets for the point of sail and
the wind conditions.

I'd do it with the sheet pre-set but eased a bit.

is this possible with a spinnaker?

No. You want the sheet to run free. The guy will need to be pulled out
to prevent the sail from hourglassing, in other words the two bottom
corners of the spinnaker need to be kept apart before hoisting. So
you'll have most of the bottom of the spinnaker pulled out, now you're
committed to hoist quickly. When hoisted, pull the guy back some more to
get the pole square to the wind, *then* haul in on the sheet.

i imagine the guy is preset before hoisting and the sheet can err on the
slack side for a brief time.

Yep, pretty much. Unless you can pull the bottom of the spinnaker around
the bow with the sail down, though, you'll want to leave the pole almost
at the forestay then trim the guy after the hoist.

Timing is important. Once you start the bottom of the sail out to the
pole, you're committed to finish the hoist or stop everything and pull
it back, usually a mess.


dropping the jib is cake walk.

Heck, leave it up. Just don't pull it in real tight and choke off the
air flow to the spinnaker.


how do you drop the spinnaker so it lands on deck and not in the water or
around the headstay?

How should I know ;)

here i think i need two crew?

It'd help. One thing you can do is either a slow "floater" douse or a
gybe douse (at one time called the "mexican takedown"). The floater is
probably a bit easier. Put the boat slightly by the lee, pull the pole
back all the way, get the sail flying & stable. Then unclip the guy from
the pole and start hauling it in. The sail should fly out to the side
and stay mostly filled, ie "floating." When you've gathered in a good
bit of the foot, start dropping the halyard and bundle the sail into the
cockpit as it falls. Don't step on it, spinnaker sailcloth is slippery!
The floater works well because you can pull the sail aft without much
risk of it going in the water. This is also the basis of several types
of windward take downs.

The mexican take down starts out from a reach, maybe a broad reach, but
the spinnaker has to be mostly on the lee side. Swing the boat around in
a fairly quick gybe, leaving the spinnaker sheet & guy as they are... if
anything, start hauling *in* on the sheet. When the boat gybes, the
spinnaker is now on the windward side but instead of floating, it is in
tight to the boat and can be lowered either to the foredeck or companionway.

The key to a spinnaker takedown is to control the halyard. Let the first
1/4 of it run quickly, takes the pressure off the sail and gets a big
bundle of sail out of the wind. Then brake the halyard a bit, maybe a
wrap or two on the winch... sometimes I stand on the line and control
the speed pressing down or letting up with my foot.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

yes it has
definite keeper of a post.
thanks
gf.


Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

sock?
gf.

"Nav" wrote in message
...
Use a snuffler if it's a big 'chute.

Cheers

gonefishiing wrote:

any sage advice on flying the chute and flying it shorthanded
these days i usually sail with one other person aboard .-sometimes a non
sailor
someone is always capable of taking the helm.
i'd like to set it up for next season and wonder of there is anything i
can do to make it easier
the only experience i have with the chute is aboard a friends boat racing
a couple of times and that only involved trimming it.
i've yet to fly it on my boat.
i understand the general idea of flying it, but have some confusion about
raising it and dropping it.

do i have it right so far:

the spinni bag is on deck
probably on the windward side.
sheet and guy are run outside everything
the pole is attached at the mast and at the sail.
the boat is just slightly to windward of dead down wind (10 degrees)
and the sail is ready to be hoisted.
depending on conditions, i also imagine the jib should already be down
giving me one less thing to deal with until i have some more experience.
what next?

with the jib, usually when i singlehand, i'll set the helm, go forward to
raise the jib after "presetting" the jib sheets for the point of sail and
the wind conditions.
is this possible with a spinnaker?
i imagine the guy is preset before hoisting and the sheet can err on the
slack side for a brief time.

dropping the jib is cake walk.
how do you drop the spinnaker so it lands on deck and not in the water or
around the headstay?
here i think i need two crew?

thanks
(looks like i'll be reading glenan's again)
gf.

No, it's me.

Cheers

gonefishiing wrote:

sock?
gf.

"Nav" wrote in message
...

Use a snuffler if it's a big 'chute.

Cheers

gonefishiing wrote:


any sage advice on flying the chute and flying it shorthanded
these days i usually sail with one other person aboard .-sometimes a non
sailor
someone is always capable of taking the helm.
i'd like to set it up for next season and wonder of there is anything i
can do to make it easier
the only experience i have with the chute is aboard a friends boat racing
a couple of times and that only involved trimming it.
i've yet to fly it on my boat.
i understand the general idea of flying it, but have some confusion about
raising it and dropping it.

do i have it right so far:

the spinni bag is on deck
probably on the windward side.
sheet and guy are run outside everything
the pole is attached at the mast and at the sail.
the boat is just slightly to windward of dead down wind (10 degrees)
and the sail is ready to be hoisted.
depending on conditions, i also imagine the jib should already be down
giving me one less thing to deal with until i have some more experience.
what next?

with the jib, usually when i singlehand, i'll set the helm, go forward to
raise the jib after "presetting" the jib sheets for the point of sail and
the wind conditions.
is this possible with a spinnaker?
i imagine the guy is preset before hoisting and the sheet can err on the
slack side for a brief time.

dropping the jib is cake walk.
how do you drop the spinnaker so it lands on deck and not in the water or
around the headstay?
here i think i need two crew?

thanks
(looks like i'll be reading glenan's again)
gf.

ahh......my mistake snuffles.
gf.

"Nav" wrote in message
...
No, it's me.

Cheers

gonefishiing wrote:

sock?
gf.

"Nav" wrote in message
...

Use a snuffler if it's a big 'chute.

Cheers

DSK wrote:


It'd help. One thing you can do is either a slow "floater" douse or a
gybe douse (at one time called the "mexican takedown"). The floater is
probably a bit easier. Put the boat slightly by the lee, pull the pole
back all the way, get the sail flying & stable. Then unclip the guy from
the pole and start hauling it in. The sail should fly out to the side
and stay mostly filled, ie "floating." When you've gathered in a good
bit of the foot, start dropping the halyard and bundle the sail into the
cockpit as it falls. Don't step on it, spinnaker sailcloth is slippery!
The floater works well because you can pull the sail aft without much
risk of it going in the water. This is also the basis of several types
of windward take downs.


I've never done a drop like this single handed. I'm not sure how well it
would work. I always thought that for a floater drop you over trim with
a tight foot gathing the leech and don't release the pole until it
is well on board. The pole stops it dropping in the water... Doug,
is this really a good method for a single handed crew? How big is this
spinnaker?

Cheers

for a pearson 30
headstay is just short of 40' (if that helps)
so........ it ain't huge.........but it ain't small either.

if i understand the description below..........you are dropping the sail on
the windward side of the boat with the sheet slack and pulling in the guy??
yes?
gf.


"Nav" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


It'd help. One thing you can do is either a slow "floater" douse or a
gybe douse (at one time called the "mexican takedown"). The floater is
probably a bit easier. Put the boat slightly by the lee, pull the pole
back all the way, get the sail flying & stable. Then unclip the guy from
the pole and start hauling it in. The sail should fly out to the side and
stay mostly filled, ie "floating." When you've gathered in a good bit of
the foot, start dropping the halyard and bundle the sail into the cockpit
as it falls. Don't step on it, spinnaker sailcloth is slippery! The
floater works well because you can pull the sail aft without much risk of
it going in the water. This is also the basis of several types of
windward take downs.


I've never done a drop like this single handed. I'm not sure how well it
would work. I always thought that for a floater drop you over trim with a
tight foot gathing the leech and don't release the pole until it is
well on board. The pole stops it dropping in the water... Doug, is
this really a good method for a single handed crew? How big is this
spinnaker?

Cheers

... The floater works well because you can pull the sail aft
without much risk of it going in the water.


Nav wrote:
I've never done a drop like this single handed.

I have.


... I'm not sure how well it
would work.

It works great if 1- you can keep the sail floating (ie filled instead
of drooping into the water) and 2- can keep control of the halyard so
that it comes down only slightly faster than you can gather

... I always thought that for a floater drop you over trim with
a tight foot gathing the leech and don't release the pole until it
is well on board.

You can do it that way if you can grab the sheet singlehanded and bring
it aft to the point where you're going to gather and stuff.

This can result in the spinnaker getting all snarled up in the bag and
making your next set a nightmare. I like to set it up (if possible) so
that the first thing you stuff into the bag is going to be the last
thing you drag out on the next set.

... The pole stops it dropping in the water... Doug,
is this really a good method for a single handed crew? How big is this
spinnaker?

Well, I've done it on a couple of times on a ~40 footer... didn't work
perfectly every time but worked better than some other methods I tried.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

... The floater works well because you can pull the sail aft without
much risk of it going in the water.



Nav wrote:

I've never done a drop like this single handed.


I have.


... I'm not sure how well it would work.


It works great if 1- you can keep the sail floating (ie filled instead
of drooping into the water) and 2- can keep control of the halyard so
that it comes down only slightly faster than you can gather

... I always thought that for a floater drop you over trim with a
tight foot gathing the leech and don't release the pole until it
is well on board.


You can do it that way if you can grab the sheet singlehanded and bring
it aft to the point where you're going to gather and stuff.

This can result in the spinnaker getting all snarled up in the bag and
making your next set a nightmare. I like to set it up (if possible) so
that the first thing you stuff into the bag is going to be the last
thing you drag out on the next set.

... The pole stops it dropping in the water... Doug, is this really a
good method for a single handed crew? How big is this spinnaker?


Well, I've done it on a couple of times on a ~40 footer... didn't work
perfectly every time but worked better than some other methods I tried.



Must have been (very) light airs -single handed windward drop on a 40'
boat with no pole attached -that I'd like to see!

Cheers

gf,

Most of what has been posted here isn't really suit to short handed
Chute work.

I've flown mine single hander for years. Not to win races but to get
drive as the wind gets lighter. I have mine in a sleeve (or Sock) now
and it does make it easier BUT I did it often before the "Sock"

Before the Sock, I used rubber bands to make a Sausage. I cut the bottom
out of a plastic bucket and put cheap rubber bands around the out side.
Then I started the chute thru the bucket, head first. about every five
to six feet I'd slip a rubber band off around the spinnaker. I'd do this
until I got down near the foot of the sail and leave enough to hook the
tack and the sheet corner. Then I would bag it like a turtle (A real
turtle is great but not necessary) You just have to have the three
corner accessible.

Now, to fly it. Get on a run and work in the shadow of the Main. Hook
the halyard to the peak, the tack to the pole and the sheet to the Clew
(Very loosely, no tension. Hoist the Chute. Stay in the wind shadow of
the main, You should be able to get it up still wrapped tight. Now, you
can start tensioning your guy to the wind. The pole should be 90 digress
to the wind, take up on your sheet and as the wind get the sail the
rubber bands will pop and you're off the the races,

To take it Down, I would drop back into a full run, shadowing the Chute
and ease the halyard until the sail goes limp by easing the guy. Open
the foreward hatch . Ease the sheet, unclip the tack and the stuff the
whole damn thing into the V-berth easing the halyard and the sheet

Before you bag it, get your plastic bucket and give it the rubber band
treatment again

Ole Thom

Thom Stewart wrote:
Before the Sock, I used rubber bands to make a Sausage. I cut the bottom
out of a plastic bucket and put cheap rubber bands around the out side.
Then I started the chute thru the bucket, head first. about every five
to six feet I'd slip a rubber band off around the spinnaker. I'd do this
until I got down near the foot of the sail and leave enough to hook the
tack and the sheet corner. Then I would bag it like a turtle (A real
turtle is great but not necessary) You just have to have the three
corner accessible.

Did you forget about running the tapes before doing this?

How often did you get hourglasses?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Well, I've done it on a couple of times on a ~40 footer... didn't work
perfectly every time but worked better than some other methods I tried.


Nav wrote:
Must have been (very) light airs

Why? Did it several times in 12 ~ 15 knots which isn't heavy weather but
not what I call light either. Really light air is a PITA for the
spinnaker, it just hangs all over everything and snags every two
minutes. As conditions build, footing gets to be a bigger problem.

Perhaps you're forgetting that when a boat is going downwind, it's speed
subtracts from the apparent wind. Keep the boat moving well, things will
go easier ;)


... -single handed windward drop on a 40'
boat with no pole attached -that I'd like to see!

It was more fun to do than watch. A spinnaker ddrop is always a little
bit hectic.

DSK

again, thanks to all that responded.
i think i'll do a couple of practice eruns with someone that has done it
before.
gf.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
gf,

Most of what has been posted here isn't really suit to short handed
Chute work.

I've flown mine single hander for years. Not to win races but to get
drive as the wind gets lighter. I have mine in a sleeve (or Sock) now
and it does make it easier BUT I did it often before the "Sock"

Before the Sock, I used rubber bands to make a Sausage. I cut the bottom
out of a plastic bucket and put cheap rubber bands around the out side.
Then I started the chute thru the bucket, head first. about every five
to six feet I'd slip a rubber band off around the spinnaker. I'd do this
until I got down near the foot of the sail and leave enough to hook the
tack and the sheet corner. Then I would bag it like a turtle (A real
turtle is great but not necessary) You just have to have the three
corner accessible.

Now, to fly it. Get on a run and work in the shadow of the Main. Hook
the halyard to the peak, the tack to the pole and the sheet to the Clew
(Very loosely, no tension. Hoist the Chute. Stay in the wind shadow of
the main, You should be able to get it up still wrapped tight. Now, you
can start tensioning your guy to the wind. The pole should be 90 digress
to the wind, take up on your sheet and as the wind get the sail the
rubber bands will pop and you're off the the races,

To take it Down, I would drop back into a full run, shadowing the Chute
and ease the halyard until the sail goes limp by easing the guy. Open
the foreward hatch . Ease the sheet, unclip the tack and the stuff the
whole damn thing into the V-berth easing the halyard and the sheet

Before you bag it, get your plastic bucket and give it the rubber band
treatment again

Ole Thom

OzOne wrote:
Hourglass?
You gone teetotal on us now?

Not that I recall...

DSK

Doug,

I got Hourglasses but that was before the the rubber bands. In fact,
that was the reason for the sausage, to get the chute out past the
forestay before letting the wind blow it into the stay

Ole Thom

Thom Stewart scribbled thusly:
I got Hourglasses but that was before the the rubber bands. In fact,
that was the reason for the sausage, to get the chute out past the
forestay before letting the wind blow it into the stay



If the tapes are run and the sail doesn't twist as it's being hoisted,
the rubber band trick works well... that's how the America's Cup boys do
it (with slight variation).



OzOne wrote:
Wineglass Thom....Wineglass!

I like that term... learn something new every day.

I don't know what went wrong, but I've still seen spinnakers do a
wineglass after hoisting in stops or even using a snuffer.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King