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preferred (best) construction for blue water cruising
"NoName" wrote in message ... david wrote in message news:1097817919.838717@webserver... interested in the collective thoughts of the group re latest thoughts on --- for the blue water cruiser snip This site might be of interest http://www.windpilot.com/en/Se/Yacht/detailen.html Nigel thanks for input - given me some ideas and info i am going to sell up and go sailing - hence blue water designs and issues. i need something that is comfortable for me solo - and maybe some crew or friends later. it has raised issues of work, finance, repairs, maintenance, running expenses etc etc i do not have a lot of cash, but should be able to get into something for up to AU$200K. the beneteau thing came about as they are so much cheaper in USA than in australia.- will check out listings in gibraltar and canaries. they have some nice configurations 2 and 3 cabins with ensuits, centre cockpit, cutter rig, 38 - 50 feet etc etc other suggestions morris - nice mac - have not seen any another option is to syndicate and go racing for a while - there are some nice race boats on the market that could be fun.- but i am not as young as i used to be. any further info welcomed cheers david |
david wrote:
"NoName" wrote in message ... david wrote in message news:1097817919.838717@webserver... interested in the collective thoughts of the group re latest thoughts on --- for the blue water cruiser snip This site might be of interest http://www.windpilot.com/en/Se/Yacht/detailen.html Nigel thanks for input - given me some ideas and info i am going to sell up and go sailing - hence blue water designs and issues. i need something that is comfortable for me solo - and maybe some crew or friends later. it has raised issues of work, finance, repairs, maintenance, running expenses etc etc i do not have a lot of cash, but should be able to get into something for up to AU$200K. the beneteau thing came about as they are so much cheaper in USA than in australia.- will check out listings in gibraltar and canaries. they have some nice configurations 2 and 3 cabins with ensuits, centre cockpit, cutter rig, 38 - 50 feet etc etc other suggestions morris - nice mac - have not seen any another option is to syndicate and go racing for a while - there are some nice race boats on the market that could be fun.- but i am not as young as i used to be. Have a look at one of my favorites -- the Kelly-Peterson 44: http://www.kp44.org/ They have a proven bluewater record, two cabins with ensuite heads, a dry center cockpit that's easily coverable, a real engine compartment, and adequate storage and tankage. The latter is very important in a long-range cruising boat, and often overlooked. Most Petersons are selling for $70-130k US. The nicer ones have usually been completely refitted, to where they're as good or better than most newer boats. The later ones seem roomier, with slightly better interiors. OK, now that I've spilled the beans, everyone will want one, and I'll never be able to afford one... Some others to look at: Similar to the Peterson, but much, much roomier, is a Maple Leaf 42. If you're lucky, you might even find a nice 48 for cheap. If you're OK with a small boat, try a Bristol Channel Cutter: http://www.samlmorse.com/Index-2.htm I see used ones in the $80-90k US range. They're funky pirate ships, but actually sail really well, have tons of storage, and are built like tanks. I saw a magazine article not too long ago about sailing one around Cape Horn. Many have actually done it. Pacific Seacraft boats are also built like tanks, check out the 37 and 40 footers. Contessas have been mentioned. They definately have a proven bluewater record, but are so dinky inside you'll go crazy. That BCC I just mentioned is actually a bigger boat inside than a Contessa 32. Whatever your budget is, don't forget to add *a lot* over the cost of the boat for fitting out, tweaking, and provisioning. Getting back to your original question, there's no "best" construction. There are good and bad boats made from every material and technique. Go with a proven design and make. Dealing with a known quantity is safer, easier, cheaper to get stuff for, and you'll have better resale value when you're done. In that sense a Beneteau might not be a bad choice. The Oceanis models seem to be a bit heavier, more displacement for all your stuff and tankage. Finally, if you want a fixer-upper, I bet there are plenty in Florida these days! Matt O. |
"david" wrote in message news:1097887825.615205@webserver... "NoName" wrote in message ... david wrote in message news:1097817919.838717@webserver... interested in the collective thoughts of the group re latest thoughts on --- for the blue water cruiser snip This site might be of interest http://www.windpilot.com/en/Se/Yacht/detailen.html Nigel thanks for input - given me some ideas and info i am going to sell up and go sailing - hence blue water designs and issues. i need something that is comfortable for me solo - and maybe some crew or friends later. it has raised issues of work, finance, repairs, maintenance, running expenses etc etc i do not have a lot of cash, but should be able to get into something for up to AU$200K. the beneteau thing came about as they are so much cheaper in USA than in australia.- will check out listings in gibraltar and canaries. they have some nice configurations 2 and 3 cabins with ensuits, centre cockpit, cutter rig, 38 - 50 feet etc etc other suggestions morris - nice mac - have not seen any another option is to syndicate and go racing for a while - there are some nice race boats on the market that could be fun.- but i am not as young as i used to be. any further info welcomed cheers david If you're going long distance cruising single handed save some money to get a seriously strong wind operated self steering (don't rely on electric ones for that sort of use) - preferably with a separate mini-rudder, and a good high output wind generator and some solar panels too. And don't forget spares & manuals for them. They'll be working all the time in all conditions and will allow you not to, which is essential, because no-one can keep going for ever. |
"david" wrote in message news:1097887825.615205@webserver... other suggestions morris - nice mac - have not seen any I'm a carpenter for Morris. The pride in workmanship is obvious throughout. Good luck with your selection. -Kevin- |
had a client with a morris 45 (?)
believe he has done the newport-bermuda several times a very nice boat. gf ps: keep up the good work (need any help up there in maine?) "sportsfan" wrote in message ... I'm a carpenter for Morris. The pride in workmanship is obvious throughout. Good luck with your selection. -Kevin- |
"gonefishiing" wrote in message ... had a client with a morris 45 (?) believe he has done the newport-bermuda several times a very nice boat. gf ps: keep up the good work (need any help up there in maine?) The 45 is traditionally a very light, fast design. All lightweight materials. I know the boats, not the customers. Remember the name of the boat? Actually we could use some help. We've had great response to the new 36' daysailor, a Sparkmans and Stevens design. Started the line last winter, we've two in the water and another half dozen already sold. Also underway are a 45, a 48, and just started a 42. Here's the website, http://www.morrisyachts.com/ We've picked up a few craftsmen from Hinckley's. They're across the street and the new owners have dropped the quality quite a bit to make more money? Real craftmen have pride. Come on up, it's beautiful country. Me, I have 1977 North American 23' ... not a Morris but it gets me on the water. My best, -Kevin- |
Duncan Heenan wrote:
If you're going long distance cruising single handed save some money to get a seriously strong wind operated self steering (don't rely on electric ones for that sort of use) - preferably with a separate mini-rudder, and a good high output wind generator and some solar panels too. And don't forget spares & manuals for them. They'll be working all the time in all conditions and will allow you not to, which is essential, because no-one can keep going for ever. Yup, I think a vane is the way to go for crossing oceans short-handed. So it would be good to get a boat that works with one -- some don't, while others will hold a course for ages, all by themselves. Matt O. |
jspeer wrote:
Me, I'd have a custom, one-off boat built strip planked with glass (West-like) over according to proven design. She's be small, but all the mistakes would be yours, not someone else's. That's an appealing idea. I saw some interesting stuff (in the Gudgeon Bros. book?) on fatigue for WEST-type boats, and it looks really good -- better than just about anything but steel. Also, a strip planked inner layer makes for some really nice interior trim! But now that people are talking Morrises, if I had that kind of money I'd probably just order up one of those... My preference would be Jack Giles Virtue, or his slightly larger similar boat. I just Googled it -- never heard of it, and it looks interesting -- at least as interesting as a Bristol Channel Cutter. BTW, the Canadian built BCC is practically the same boat as the Sam Morse one, for a lot less money. I just saw one on boats.com for under $70k. However, I'm more in the "speed is safety" school -- I'd hate to be slopping around in the Gulf Stream in a 5 knot boat. So within the realm of proven seaworthy designs, I'd go as big as budget allows. I think the budget mentioned allows a pretty nice 35-40'+. But maybe that's my lack of real bluewater experience showing. :-) Matt O. |
"Duncan Heenan" wrote in message ...
If you're going long distance cruising single handed save some money to get a seriously strong wind operated self steering Agree. I came across one of there for the first time this weekend. Cracking bits of kit if you have the cash. As good as an extra crew member [1] 90 per cent of the time. (don't rely on electric ones for that sort of use) I don't think people do! ;-) [1] One that doesn't take up space or bring kit or eat food. |
Duncan Heenan wrote:
If you're going long distance cruising single handed save some money to get a seriously strong wind operated self steering (don't rely on electric ones for that sort of use) - preferably with a separate mini-rudder, and a good high output wind generator and some solar panels too. And don't forget spares & manuals for them. They'll be working all the time in all conditions and will allow you not to, which is essential, because no-one can keep going for ever. I fitted a Monitor to J (a Nicholson 32) about 10 years ago amd I would not be without it. It has steered her on all points of sailing up to gale conditions far better than a electrical unit could (perhaps, except for the most expensive ones), silently and without amps. I very seldom don't use it when sailing, except when I want a bit of fun steering. Must have done about 10,000 miles using it and it has never needed any attention. |
"sportsfan" wrote in message ... "gonefishiing" wrote in message ... had a client with a morris 45 (?) believe he has done the newport-bermuda several times a very nice boat. gf ps: keep up the good work (need any help up there in maine?) The 45 is traditionally a very light, fast design. All lightweight materials. I know the boats, not the customers. Remember the name of the boat? Actually we could use some help. We've had great response to the new 36' daysailor, a Sparkmans and Stevens design. Started the line last winter, we've two in the water and another half dozen already sold. Also underway are a 45, a 48, and just started a 42. Here's the website, http://www.morrisyachts.com/ We've picked up a few craftsmen from Hinckley's. They're across the street and the new owners have dropped the quality quite a bit to make more money? Real craftmen have pride. Come on up, it's beautiful country. Me, I have 1977 North American 23' ... not a Morris but it gets me on the water. My best, -Kevin- ............. Also underway are a 45, a 48, and just started a 42. any of these s&s designs ? - they have produced lots of quality blue water stuff over the years. there are a couple of 39's for sale around i noticed - not bad i looked at a miller 40 designed by bob miller / aka ben lexcen - not bad either - maybe a little tender. brewer 43 - 2 cabin, 2 heads, lots of gear - not bad this would be ok - yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1279924 &units=Feet¤cy=AUD&access=Public&listing_id= 74463&url= those morris are nice david |
"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message ... Have a look at one of my favorites -- the Kelly-Peterson 44: i would go to sea in one of those for sure - none in australia though mate and rarely come up ..yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1119587 &units=Feet¤cy=AUD&access=Public&listing_id= 1707&url= If you're OK with a small boat, try a Bristol Channel Cutter: i have set my minimum length at 38 feet - it is just more comfortable both solo and with guests Whatever your budget is, don't forget to add *a lot* over the cost of the boat for fitting out, tweaking, and provisioning. yeh it can be expensive - definately pays to shop around for the best fitted boat i use to ride motorcycles and the manufactures treat their customers in a similar way - they think you have lots of $$$$'s Getting back to your original question, there's no "best" construction. There are good and bad boats made from every material and technique. Go with a proven design and make. Dealing with a known quantity is safer, easier, cheaper to get stuff for, and you'll have better resale value when you're done. In that sense a Beneteau might not be a bad choice. The Oceanis models seem to be a bit heavier, more displacement for all your stuff and tankage. Finally, if you want a fixer-upper, I bet there are plenty in Florida these days! not for blue water stuff - over and out i could do something with this though - young 43 yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1279924 &units=Feet¤cy=AUD&access=Public&listing_id= 74463&url= thanks for the info david |
yep they are.
something to keep the future dream intact. gf. "david" wrote in message news:1098245204.536581@webserver... those morris are nice david |
david wrote:
"Matt O'Toole" wrote in message ... Have a look at one of my favorites -- the Kelly-Peterson 44: i would go to sea in one of those for sure - none in australia though mate and rarely come up ..yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1119587 & units=Feet¤cy=AUD&access=Public&listing_id=1 707&url= That looks like a pretty typical, at a typical price. I do see decent-looking ones *a lot* cheaper though -- $65-70k US -- which leaves a lot of change for travel and outfitting. If you're OK with a small boat, try a Bristol Channel Cutter: i have set my minimum length at 38 feet - it is just more comfortable both solo and with guests Not a bad idea. The BCC would be fine solo, but definately only for very friendly guests. Two full staterooms, preferably at opposite ends of the boat, is of course ideal. i could do something with this though - young 43 yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1279924 &u nits=Feet¤cy=AUD&access=Public&listing_id=74 463&url= That looks really nice -- at least as nice as the Peterson. Did I mention swim platforms? Once you've lived with one, it's hard to imagine being without. Sure makes messing around with dinghies a lot easier. It's the one big thing the Peterson lacks, IMO. Matt O. |
"david" wrote in message news:1098245204.536581@webserver... ............. Also underway are a 45, a 48, and just started a 42. any of these s&s designs ? - they have produced lots of quality blue water stuff over the years. there are a couple of 39's for sale around i noticed - not bad The only S&S design we're building is the new 36. It's getting such a good reception that Morris is considering developing something a little larger with S&S along the same lines as the 36. The 36 has no forward cabin, just space utilized for storage. It could get a v berth but it would be small. The main cabin is nice. A larger design would have the forward cabin. The smallest Morris we build is a 34, a real sweet boat with the forward and main cabins but nothing aft. those morris are nice david And great fun to build. If you ever get to Maine, stop by and say hi. -Kevin- |
i'll take you up on that offer
next summer? gf. "sportsfan" wrote in message ... And great fun to build. If you ever get to Maine, stop by and say hi. -Kevin- |
"gonefishiing" wrote in message ... i'll take you up on that offer next summer? gf. Great! -K- |
However, I'm more in the "speed is safety" school -- I'd hate to be slopping around in the Gulf Stream in a 5 knot boat. So within the realm of proven seaworthy designs, I'd go as big as budget allows. I think the budget mentioned allows a pretty nice 35-40'+. But maybe that's my lack of real bluewater experience showing. :-) Matt O. Fair enough, Matt, but consider: If you're sailing a displacement boat, as most people would recommend for blue water cruising, your 40-footer might have a waterline length of 30'; my Giles Virtie will have a waterline length of about 19'. Roughly, hull speed equals 1.3 times the the square root of waterline length of the displacement vessel, so my hull speed is 5.7 knots, whereas yours is 7.1. Is that extra 1.4 knots really going to add all that much to your safety? Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-) Jim |
On Friday 22 October 2004 1:58 am in uk.rec.sailing jspeer wrote:
Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-) Oh dear - that old chestnut again. Cruising cats do not get blown down. Racing multihulls use the inherent stability of multihulls to crowd on more sail, so they can have problems, but cruising cats are more sensibly designed. Several Prouts and several Wharrams have circumnavigated. James Wharram has written an excellent paper on this, you need to keep the centre of effort low and use sensible amounts of sail. He also advocates sails with calibrated strenth which will shred before tipping the boat in the case of the sudden storm that tends to blow up out of nowhere in the southern ocean while people are asleep B-). Taking something like a Hobie offshore is, of course, a rather bad idea - but you knew that already. -- My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently deleted. Send only plain text. |
Chris Newport wrote:
On Friday 22 October 2004 1:58 am in uk.rec.sailing jspeer wrote: Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-) Oh dear - that old chestnut again. Cruising cats do not get blown down. Racing multihulls use the inherent stability of multihulls to crowd on more sail, so they can have problems, but cruising cats are more sensibly designed. Several Prouts and several Wharrams have circumnavigated. James Wharram has written an excellent paper on this, you need to keep the centre of effort low and use sensible amounts of sail. He also advocates sails with calibrated strenth which will shred before tipping the boat in the case of the sudden storm that tends to blow up out of nowhere in the southern ocean while people are asleep B-). Taking something like a Hobie offshore is, of course, a rather bad idea - but you knew that already. While a catamaran has a better chance than a monohull of out-running extreme weather, it's not the wind you have to worry about - it's the waves! http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMOKQL26WD_index_0.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...gue_waves.html It looks like rogue waves are a lot more common than most of us have believed. While I'd be happy to sail a cat on coastal routes, I'd prefer a monohull for ocean passages. Rolling a monohull is not uncommon (I know someone who's done it). Successfully rolling a catamaran would, I imagine, be far less common! Pleasant dreams. |
"jspeer" wrote in message ... Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-) Jim less chance of it sinking ? - unless you hole both hulls david |
"Jason Keats" wrote in message ... While a catamaran has a better chance than a monohull of out-running extreme weather, it's not the wind you have to worry about - it's the waves! agree - one can always let some sheet out, reef the sails + other options to allow for the wind, but what o you do for a 30 mt wave - i remember on my second sydney to hobart (monohull) the wave height was incredibly scary - surfing is no problem and a lot of fun, but race boats were and still are constructed very lightly, coming down the other side with a huge thump hoping the rigging and the boat would stay together thats scary enjoyed ur links david |
In article , OzOne wrote:
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:37:05 +1000, "david" scribbled thusly: "jspeer" wrote in message ... Of course you could go with a catamaran, but I've never been comfortable offshore in a boat that is as stable upside-down as right-side up:-) Jim less chance of it sinking ? - unless you hole both hulls david and add a great big lump of lead! And, actually, a cat is more stable upside down, which is good in that you won't be in a washing machine with all sorts of things flying around. The bad news is that it's near impossible to right on your own. But, at least you'll be alive, relatively dry, and relatively comfortable. -- Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m) http://www.sailnow.com "If there's no wind, row." |
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