OT NYC Apartment Question
 

Not being from NYC (although I have visited), I don't know how the apartment thing works there. Does one have to buy the right to rent an apartment
there from the previous tenent?

Cheers
Marty

Not being from NYC (although I have visited), I don't know how the apartment
thing works there. Does one have to buy the right to rent an apartment
there from the previous tenent?.

Since there are no houses in the city the commoners were convinced a long time
ago that buying a little apartment in a big building was the thing to do.
Intellegent New Yorkers still buy houses in the city called brownstones. They
cost a pile of money but at least you still own your own house.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

SAIL LOCO wrote:
Not being from NYC (although I have visited), I don't know how the apartment
thing works there. Does one have to buy the right to rent an apartment
there from the previous tenent?.

Since there are no houses in the city the commoners were convinced a long time
ago that buying a little apartment in a big building was the thing to do.
Intellegent New Yorkers still buy houses in the city called brownstones. They
cost a pile of money but at least you still own your own house.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Doesn't this mean "Condominium"? What's the difference between buying a condo and buying an
apartment?

Cheers
Marty

Dave wrote:

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:32:23 -0400, Martin Baxter said:


Not being from NYC (although I have visited), I don't know how the apartment thing works there. Does one have to buy the right to rent an apartment
there from the previous tenent?


Generally, the answer is no.

So what's this stuff about "buying" an apartment, I thought an apartment was something one rented.

Cheers
Marty

2 forms exist
condo and co-op
they are different in terms of organization
gf.



"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Not being from NYC (although I have visited), I don't know how the
apartment
thing works there. Does one have to buy the right to rent an apartment
there from the previous tenent?.

Since there are no houses in the city the commoners were convinced a
long time
ago that buying a little apartment in a big building was the thing to
do.
Intellegent New Yorkers still buy houses in the city called brownstones.
They
cost a pile of money but at least you still own your own house.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Doesn't this mean "Condominium"? What's the difference between buying a
condo and buying an
apartment?

Cheers
Marty

2 forms exist
condo and co-op
they are different in terms of organization

You only own shares in a co-op. Condo is better because you have more legal
rights as to how you can modify the space...in most cases.

RB

"SAIL LOCO" wrote

Since there are no houses in the city the commoners were convinced a long
time
ago that buying a little apartment in a big building was the thing to do.

Yup, by the IRS. Interest on the mortgage is deductable, rent is not, making
it wise to buy and pay interest vs rent.

That's still the conventional wisdom, but it's no longer a slam dunk. Those
of us with a somewhat longer perspective recall when the real estate market
fell, and there are some suggestions among those in the know that prices may
be getting too far out of line with reality.


At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all doubled
their money or much better.

RB

co-ops are an issue of the long ago past. they still exist, but for all
practical purposes are like buggy whips.

2 forms exist
condo and co-op
they are different in terms of organization
gf.

good explaination, Dave.


Date: 10/5/2004 5:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:34:01 -0400, Martin Baxter said:

Intellegent New Yorkers still buy houses in the city called brownstones.
They
cost a pile of money but at least you still own your own house.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Doesn't this mean "Condominium"? What's the difference between buying a
condo and buying an
apartment?

You're talking about several different beasts here.

A Brownstone is a whole house, generally 3 to 4 floors and often complete
with small back yard. They run several million in good parts of the City.

A condominium is generally one apartment that is part of a larger building.
You own the condominium much as you would own a house, and can generally
rent to whomever you please. In addition to your mortgage and taxes, you pay
"common charges" for shared facilities and services.

A coop is shares in a corporation that owns an apartment building, plus a
"proprietary lease" from the corporation. You pay, in addition to your
mortgage, monthly "maintenance" charges. Part of the maintenance charges are
for mortgage interest on the mortgage the corporation gave to the bank to
buy the building, or later refinanced. Another part is for the real estate
taxes paid by the corporation. These interest and real estate charges are
passed through, so the owner of the coop can deduct them.

One advantage of the coop is that every purchase (with limited exceptions
for sponsor sales) is subject to approval by the corporation's board of
directors, so there is some assurance that those who buy will be able to
meet their maintenance obligations. In fact these days unless you have at
least a million in liquid assets after the purchase of even a small
apartment you won't get in to many coops. Coop boards have historically also
acted a screeners for "undesirable" co-residents. For example it isn't
unknown for well-known entertainers to be turned down because the board
doesn't want the notoriety. It is believed by some that boards may also
exercise their discretion by looking for reasons to turn down purchasers of
an ethnic identity they feel wouldn't "fit in."

So what's this stuff about "buying" an apartment, I thought an apartment was
something one rented.

the term means to buy a condo, or infrequently a co-op shares.

Those
of us with a somewhat longer perspective recall when the real estate market
fell, and there are some suggestions among those in the know

such as Alan Greenspan

that prices may
be getting too far out of line with reality.

At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all doubled
their money or much better.

My memory goes back to 1989, and I knew a whole bunch of people who lost money
on NY apartments.

When I left New York in the very early 80's you could own a house if you
simply paid the back taxes on it. On the way out through Queens, the garbage
was piled so high on one street you couldn't even get over it in 4WD. New
York is also on of the few places with a sales tax on a house. My friend
paid 3% sales tax on a house in Forest Hills. With rising interest rates and
offshoring of financial services it will be interesting to see what happens
to NY real estate. If you weigh in the costs of taxes, living, decline in
health etc, New York real estate isn't that great. My condominiums in Vail
and Aspen have done much better than NY real estate - and they are usually
rented by New Yorkers on vacation!

Gilligan.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all
doubled
their money or much better.

My memory goes back to 1989, and I knew a whole bunch of people who lost
money
on NY apartments.

Jill? do *you* suspect that one or two things have happened in the universe in
the last quarter century?

Hell, in most of 1980 you could still buy a Fiat in this country, and the dood
who just died of very old age was not yet elected President.

but thanks for sharing, Jill.

When I left New York in the very early 80's you could own a house if you
simply paid the back taxes on it. On the way out through Queens, the garbage
was piled so high on one street you couldn't even get over it in 4WD. New
York is also on of the few places with a sales tax on a house. My friend
paid 3% sales tax on a house in Forest Hills. With rising interest rates and
offshoring of financial services it will be interesting to see what happens
to NY real estate. If you weigh in the costs of taxes, living, decline in
health etc, New York real estate isn't that great. My condominiums in Vail
and Aspen have done much better than NY real estate - and they are usually
rented by New Yorkers on vacation!

Gilligan.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all
doubled
their money or much better.

My memory goes back to 1989, and I knew a whole bunch of people who lost
money
on NY apartments.

Doesn't this mean "Condominium"? What's the difference between buying a
condo and buying an
apartment?

I could never figure that out myself.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

JAXAshby wrote:

At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all doubled
their money or much better.


My memory goes back to 1989


You can't remember your childhood? This called a memory block and
usually is a protective mechanism against unpleasent thoughts. Just
thought I should tell you.

Cheers

This drives people like Loco nuts with envy.

LOL............... Yea I envy you walking out your front door into the smells
of NY city. Sweat, exhaust and urine. That's NY.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

you are kinda, or mostly, or completely dumb, nav. why should anyone attempt
discussion with anyone like you? it is, I suppose, like petting a pig.

Nav
Date: 10/5/2004 10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:



JAXAshby wrote:

At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all doubled
their money or much better.


My memory goes back to 1989


You can't remember your childhood? This called a memory block and
usually is a protective mechanism against unpleasent thoughts. Just
thought I should tell you.

Cheers

LOL............... Yea I envy you walking out your front door into the smells
of NY city. Sweat, exhaust and urine. That's NY.

not midtown east manhattan. Well, we do actually walk out our front doors, but
the rest of that tripe matches nothing in our experience.

Bwhahhahahhahhaha Painted any floors recently?

Cheers

JAXAshby wrote:

you are kinda, or mostly, or completely dumb, nav. why should anyone attempt
discussion with anyone like you? it is, I suppose, like petting a pig.


Nav
Date: 10/5/2004 10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:



JAXAshby wrote:


At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all doubled
their money or much better.


My memory goes back to 1989


You can't remember your childhood? This called a memory block and
usually is a protective mechanism against unpleasent thoughts. Just
thought I should tell you.

Cheers

My memory goes back to 1989, and I knew a whole bunch of people who lost money
on NY apartments.

How?? There were two dips in the market. They lasted no more than 3 years and
ended by the mid 90's. Real estate fluctuates, but it's never down in NY. Not
once, not even in 1987 where it dropped briefly before climbing like crazy
again in the early 90 to mid 90s. Only a flipper could lose money in NY and
you'd have to be pretty dumb. My father bought his apartment is 1988. In 1993
it was worth about the same. In 2001 it trippled it's value. And that's in
Queens!

RB

Yea I envy you walking out your front door into the smells
of NY city. Sweat, exhaust and urine. That's NY.

I don't live in Manhattan, dopey. I'm next to Forest Park and 15 minutes from
my boat. Now, did your real estate more than double in value in 5 1/2 years?

RB

JAXAshby wrote:

So what's this stuff about "buying" an apartment, I thought an apartment was
something one rented.


the term means to buy a condo, or infrequently a co-op shares.

Thanks to all, even Jax, but especially Dave for all the info, I must remember when talking to New Yorkers
in the future that when the say "apartment", they may mean "condo".

Cheers
Marty

OzOne wrote:



Dave, real estate never goes down! Well not in the long term.


"Buy land, they ain't makin no more.", Will Rogers.

Cheers
Marty

huh?

Nav
Date: 10/6/2004 12:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Bwhahhahahhahhaha Painted any floors recently?

Cheers

JAXAshby wrote:

you are kinda, or mostly, or completely dumb, nav. why should anyone
attempt
discussion with anyone like you? it is, I suppose, like petting a pig.


Nav
Date: 10/5/2004 10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:



JAXAshby wrote:


At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all
doubled
their money or much better.


My memory goes back to 1989


You can't remember your childhood? This called a memory block and
usually is a protective mechanism against unpleasent thoughts. Just
thought I should tell you.

Cheers

yo-yo, people who bought apartments in NYC in 1989 had to wait until about 1997
for their apartments to again be worth what they owed the bank on it.

yo-yo, I live here and as you might expect know one or two people, and worked
with maybe one or two more.

also, yo-you, should you bother to check around with an adult or two you will
find that a.) booms always end [they have to], and the b.) end is shortly after
everyone says there is no end.

From: "OzOne
Date: 10/6/2004 2:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 06 Oct 2004 01:45:30 GMT, (JAXAshby) scribbled
thusly:

At no time did anyone I know lose money on a NY apartment. They all doubled
their money or much better.

My memory goes back to 1989, and I knew a whole bunch of people who lost
money
on NY apartments.

that's because they sold em Jocks!
Imagine if they still had those 1989 properties now.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

bob, you remember your father's position. the real estate professionals
remember the position of the industry in total. 1989 prices dropped in some
cases in 1990 to 50% of 1989 prices. I saw a studio in the West Village go
begging at $25,000 (yup, the price of a low end SUV today). I passed because I
didn't want to live in the West Village, not my lifestyle much of them.

apartment prices did not recover their 1989 prices until about 1997.



My memory goes back to 1989, and I knew a whole bunch of people who lost
money
on NY apartments.

How?? There were two dips in the market. They lasted no more than 3 years and
ended by the mid 90's. Real estate fluctuates, but it's never down in NY. Not
once, not even in 1987 where it dropped briefly before climbing like crazy
again in the early 90 to mid 90s. Only a flipper could lose money in NY and
you'd have to be pretty dumb. My father bought his apartment is 1988. In 1993
it was worth about the same. In 2001 it trippled it's value. And that's in
Queens!

RB

nearly the very same thing was said about silver as it reached $15 an ounce
back in early (mid?) 70's. Silver, I think, has climbed to about $5 now. how
long does one have to wait?

Dave, real estate never goes down! Well not in the long term.
Even if you buy at the top of a market and the bottom falls out of the
economy, eventually, if you can afford to hang on, it will all come
back and begin another surge.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

yo-yo, people who bought apartments in NYC in 1989 had to wait until about 1997
for their apartments to again be worth what they owed the bank on it.


I'm sorry Jax, but the market was basically restored by 1993-94. Your friends
must have made some incredibly bad investments. There was essentially a 3-4
year lull and most areas didn't drop, but they didn't rise either. There are
books out on this, showing when the market began to spike again, regaining full
steam in the mid 90's. Meanwhile, anyone with brains waited out the short spell
and made a KILLING. I don't know a single person who lost out. Then again, the
people I know understood that a 10 year investment on real estate is common. In
NY you can now flip in as little as 3 years on a FMV property and see 175% to
300% above the initial investment . There are very few places on the planet
that can claim the same.

RB

Thanks to all, even Jax, but especially Dave for all the info, I must
remember when talking to New Yorkers
in the future that when the say "apartment", they may mean "condo".


you are welcome. keep in mind, though, to a NYer an apartment can also mean a
rental unit.

Cheers
Marty

bob, you remember your father's position. the real estate professionals
remember the position of the industry in total. 1989 prices dropped in some
cases in 1990 to 50% of 1989 prices. I saw a studio in the West Village go
begging at $25,000 (yup, the price of a low end SUV today). I passed because I
didn't want to live in the West Village, not my lifestyle much of them.

It's funny, but I've heard that story before. Yet real estate indexes show
nothing in that area anywhere near that price going back as far as 1980. Jax,
if this is the case you really blew it. I owned an apartment in the west
village with 2 partners. We paid 120K in 1988. It never lost value, nor did any
other property in the area we saw. I sure wish I'd seen that apartment for
25K!!! Someone got rich!
Like I said, NY real estate has fluctuated, but ALWAYS ended WAY UP.
There's just no disputing it, Jax. A brief lull of a few years means nothing,
especially in real estate.

RB

nearly the very same thing was said about silver as it reached $15 an ounce
back in early (mid?) 70's. Silver, I think, has climbed to about $5 now. how
long does one have to wait?

Silver went a whole lot higher than that, Jax. I should know...my father sold
off the largest collection of MC silver Morgans in history during that spike!
Paid for his 1st property in PA and then some.

RB

1993 recovery for those who bought in 1987, 1994 for 1988, 1997 for 1989. Few
or no sales in 1990 or 1991.

From: (Bobsprit)
Date: 10/6/2004 8:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

yo-yo, people who bought apartments in NYC in 1989 had to wait until about
1997
for their apartments to again be worth what they owed the bank on it.


I'm sorry Jax, but the market was basically restored by 1993-94. Your friends
must have made some incredibly bad investments. There was essentially a 3-4
year lull and most areas didn't drop, but they didn't rise either. There are
books out on this, showing when the market began to spike again, regaining
full
steam in the mid 90's. Meanwhile, anyone with brains waited out the short
spell
and made a KILLING. I don't know a single person who lost out. Then again,
the
people I know understood that a 10 year investment on real estate is common.
In
NY you can now flip in as little as 3 years on a FMV property and see 175% to
300% above the initial investment . There are very few places on the planet
that can claim the same.

RB

bob, the end (of every boom) is just after everyone says there is no end (of
some particular boom).

bob, you remember your father's position. the real estate professionals
remember the position of the industry in total. 1989 prices dropped in some
cases in 1990 to 50% of 1989 prices. I saw a studio in the West Village go
begging at $25,000 (yup, the price of a low end SUV today). I passed because
I
didn't want to live in the West Village, not my lifestyle much of them.

It's funny, but I've heard that story before. Yet real estate indexes show
nothing in that area anywhere near that price going back as far as 1980. Jax,
if this is the case you really blew it. I owned an apartment in the west
village with 2 partners. We paid 120K in 1988. It never lost value, nor did
any
other property in the area we saw. I sure wish I'd seen that apartment for
25K!!! Someone got rich!
Like I said, NY real estate has fluctuated, but ALWAYS ended WAY UP.
There's just no disputing it, Jax. A brief lull of a few years means nothing,
especially in real estate.

RB

bob, the end (of every boom) is just after everyone says there is no end (of
some particular boom).


What boom? NY Real estate has been steadily climbing for 50 years. Short lulls
don't mean a thing.

RB

Eh Jocks, like I said, they lost because they sold em.
Thanks for confirming that.


Exactly. Everyone knew it would go nova again. At least everyone I knew or
spoke to. Unless you were forced to sell, you had to see the obvious.

RB

I haven't checked recently, but I seem to recall $15 was absolute top.

is it back to $5?

nearly the very same thing was said about silver as it reached $15 an ounce
back in early (mid?) 70's. Silver, I think, has climbed to about $5 now.
how
long does one have to wait?

Silver went a whole lot higher than that, Jax. I should know...my father sold
off the largest collection of MC silver Morgans in history during that spike!
Paid for his 1st property in PA and then some.

RB

The valuation on the property a couple of months back was $1.8million.
Of course I've improved it since purchase, possibly spent $150k


Good for you, Ozzy!

RB

Silver isn't real estate.


Oh.


RB