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Those Post-debate polls

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:21:36 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

A draw??? Not even close. Kerry did much better, although not as good as he
should have done.

Oh, who are you going to believe...Dave's conspiracy theories or your
own eyes? Bush looked terrible last night. For someone who was
supposed to have been coached and prepared, he looked like a deer
caught in the headlights. What was even more disturbing than his
inability to make any kind of coherent defense of his record was his
demeanor. I thought the guy was going to come unglued on the stage.
He looked frustrated, confused and angry and those are certainly not
the qualities of steady "leadership."

Frankly I was more disturbed than anything else over Bush's meltdown.
That one line where he blurted out something to the effect..."well, we
won't even get into how he is going to pay for all that" or something
along those lines. Yeah, Homeland Security is too expensive for GWB,
the "fiscal conservative". Give me a break.

The debate couldn't have been any more one sided for Kerry. I
happened to speak to my mother this morning, who still lives in
Midland, Texas and thinks George and Laura hung the moon and even she
admitted that "Bush looked terrible last night." There you have it, a
"real" survey of Bush's "base".

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:52:08 -0500, Dave wrote:

So why do the instant polls taken by the networks not reflect the reality?
One explanation is probably an e-mail from the Kerry campaign to its
supporters, sent on the day before the debate, reading in part as follows:

Now, why didn't the Bush campaign think of that?

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0...w=wn_tophead_1

I don't know. I tend not to call people liars without cause.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:21:36 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

A draw??? Not even close. Kerry did much better, although not as good as
he
should have done.

I guess that in your parlance, Lockhart "lied" then, right?

So, what you're saying is that Republicans would never do that. Got it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:21:36 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

In other words there was a carefully coordinated effort by the Kerry
folks
to create a bandwagon effect by manipulating the results of the polls.

So, this was some sort of revelation for you? How naive. I guess the
Republicans
would NEVER do something like that.

Ah, the old "everybody does it" defense, again resurrected from the
Clinton
playbook.

They're not as smart as either Dave or the democrats! :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:52:08 -0500, Dave wrote:

So why do the instant polls taken by the networks not reflect the
reality?
One explanation is probably an e-mail from the Kerry campaign to its
supporters, sent on the day before the debate, reading in part as
follows:

Now, why didn't the Bush campaign think of that?

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0...w=wn_tophead_1

It wasn't that good. You're a liar! g

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:38:44 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
said:

I don't know. I tend not to call people liars without cause.

LOL. That were a good one. Tell me another.

Dave wrote:
crap snipped

Dave, you're delusional. The problem isn't that the Democrats are
somehow cheating. Your problem is that with everything on the line
Bush puffed it. Big Time.

Kerry looked absolutely *PRESIDENTIAL* while Bush came off like a
petulant child with ADD. Kerry mopped the floor with your guy. It's
unanimous.

Whine about it all you want, but that's the cold hard reality.

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
A draw??? Not even close. Kerry did much better, although not as good as he
should have done.

The whole debate was a joke. Why it was called a debate I have no ideal.
It was yet another glorifed press meeting full of sound bites.

It sucked. I wanna see a real debate where they can talk to each other.

SOS nothing new.

John McCain 2008!!

Joe

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
It seems that CSPAN caught Joe Lockhart in an unguarded moment after the
debate saying "Basically, the overall is that this thing was a draw."
Nice
to hear Lockhart speaking truth for a change. That's consistent with my
own
reaction just after the debate, and the reaction of my daughter, who
watched
it elsewhere and is on the other side of the political fence. Both of us
thought it essentially a draw.

So why do the instant polls taken by the networks not reflect the reality?
One explanation is probably an e-mail from the Kerry campaign to its
supporters, sent on the day before the debate, reading in part as follows:

"Here are a few ways that we need you to take action after tonight's
debate:
° Vote in online polls. National and local news organizations will all
be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for reader's
opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites:
°° ABC News
°° CBS News
°° MSNBC
°° CNN
°° Fox News
(each of the above was a direct link)

° Call in to radio and TV talk shows.
° Write a letter to the editor of your local paper:"

In other words there was a carefully coordinated effort by the Kerry folks
to create a bandwagon effect by manipulating the results of the polls.

So, this was some sort of revelation for you? How naive. I guess the
Republicans
would NEVER do something like that. What a load of hooey.

You wouldn't be saying that if GWB had done better. Now fes up.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
A draw??? Not even close. Kerry did much better, although not as good as
he
should have done.

The whole debate was a joke. Why it was called a debate I have no ideal.
It was yet another glorifed press meeting full of sound bites.

It sucked. I wanna see a real debate where they can talk to each other.

SOS nothing new.

John McCain 2008!!

Joe

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
It seems that CSPAN caught Joe Lockhart in an unguarded moment after
the
debate saying "Basically, the overall is that this thing was a draw."
Nice
to hear Lockhart speaking truth for a change. That's consistent with my
own
reaction just after the debate, and the reaction of my daughter, who
watched
it elsewhere and is on the other side of the political fence. Both of
us
thought it essentially a draw.

So why do the instant polls taken by the networks not reflect the
reality?
One explanation is probably an e-mail from the Kerry campaign to its
supporters, sent on the day before the debate, reading in part as
follows:

"Here are a few ways that we need you to take action after tonight's
debate:
° Vote in online polls. National and local news organizations will all
be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for
reader's
opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites:
°° ABC News
°° CBS News
°° MSNBC
°° CNN
°° Fox News
(each of the above was a direct link)

° Call in to radio and TV talk shows.
° Write a letter to the editor of your local paper:"

In other words there was a carefully coordinated effort by the Kerry
folks
to create a bandwagon effect by manipulating the results of the polls.

So, this was some sort of revelation for you? How naive. I guess the
Republicans
would NEVER do something like that. What a load of hooey.

Among normal people who think with the stuff between their ears...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 22:50:22 -0400, Walt said:

It's
unanimous.

Only among your friends, apparently.

Among normal people who think with the stuff between their ears...

To people like Dave, that stuff is called "Hair."

RB

But with you, it's so easy!!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 04 Oct 2004 10:14:52 GMT, (Bobsprit) said:

To people like Dave, that stuff is called "Hair."

If you don't like the message, attack the messenger, right.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
You wouldn't be saying that if GWB had done better. Now fes up.

Bull..... Well done is better than well said.

You may be happy to be spoon fed slogans. You may be estatic that
Kerry appeared more Presidential in your opinion.

But appearences are not what makes a good leader. What makes a good
leader is someone you can follow and count on. Someone you know that
will do what he says he will do. Someone that you know can lead.

Kerry has proven he is not a leader. He is a follower at best.
He that will not sail till all dangers are over must never put to sea.
Kerry will never put to sea, and Americans will pay the price.

Our president ......set a course....sails boldly...leads the fleet
because its is the right thing to do. He is not going to wait for
permission to cast off. He may have to deal with storms, rough seas,
and even the risk of death...but he knows the journey is urgent,
rightious and must be done. He knows that he has his hands on the helm
of the finest ship in the world.

Kerry thou a slick actor/lawyer was nothing but a critic and it is not
the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man
stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The
credit belongs to he man who is actually at sea; whose face is marred
by salt and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes
short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best,
knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, if he
fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall
never be with those cold and timid souls who knew niether victory nor
defeat.

Joe

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
A draw??? Not even close. Kerry did much better, although not as good as
he
should have done.

The whole debate was a joke. Why it was called a debate I have no ideal.
It was yet another glorifed press meeting full of sound bites.

It sucked. I wanna see a real debate where they can talk to each other.

SOS nothing new.

John McCain 2008!!

Joe

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
It seems that CSPAN caught Joe Lockhart in an unguarded moment after
the
debate saying "Basically, the overall is that this thing was a draw."
Nice
to hear Lockhart speaking truth for a change. That's consistent with my
own
reaction just after the debate, and the reaction of my daughter, who
watched
it elsewhere and is on the other side of the political fence. Both of
us
thought it essentially a draw.

So why do the instant polls taken by the networks not reflect the
reality?
One explanation is probably an e-mail from the Kerry campaign to its
supporters, sent on the day before the debate, reading in part as
follows:

"Here are a few ways that we need you to take action after tonight's
debate:
° Vote in online polls. National and local news organizations will all
be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for
reader's
opinions. Look for online polls at these national news websites:
°° ABC News
°° CBS News
°° MSNBC
°° CNN
°° Fox News
(each of the above was a direct link)

° Call in to radio and TV talk shows.
° Write a letter to the editor of your local paper:"

In other words there was a carefully coordinated effort by the Kerry
folks
to create a bandwagon effect by manipulating the results of the polls.

So, this was some sort of revelation for you? How naive. I guess the
Republicans
would NEVER do something like that. What a load of hooey.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
Fans of "All the news that's fit to print" may note that when the Dems tried
to rig the "flash polls" by telling their supporters to vote for their man
online in the network polls there was nada in the Times about it. When the
Republicans sent virtually the same e-mail message yesterday, it suddenly
became newsworthy.

So, what's your point? It's a fact of life. Get used to it.

The real issue is that polls tend to be self-fullfilling. Most people
(something like 90%) refuse to participate in telephone polls.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."