ECHO Sep 2004 Report
 

Latest News on Restoring ECHO

HALYARDS: There's lots of rope coming out of ECHO's
mast base, five halyards, each of which is spiced wire to rope,
and the expose wire portion is swaged to a snap shackle.
These halyards are probably original to the boat, which would
make them over 30 years old. There is one nice really thing
about wire halyards-they last.

Most of the rope is protected from the elements by the mast
itself. However, the rope tails exposed to the weather turned
almost black. And the wire ends, in two cases didn't look so
good. Frankly it was embarrassing. They are wire and rope,
so I couldn't toss them in the washing machine. Plus I needed
a long messenger line to pull through behind them. I finally
spliced two shorter lines together and then sewed that on to the
tail of each halyard.

One end of the first halyard, Spinnaker 1, was terminated in a
thimble that I'd temporarily, three years ago, tied a shackle to
the end-the wire also had a few spurs, and the last 5 feet of
the cable looked horribly twisted--like John Kerry. Perhaps in
an emergency someone tied the wire in a bowline to something to
hoist it aboard which put a permanent bend in the wire strands.
I cut five feet off the end and swaged on the shackle with a new
thimble.

Next, I took it home with me and took a shower with the rope
portion. I hoped if I danced on the rope with the tub filled with
detergent it would clean up. It did, but not nearly enough, so I
then hand washed the dirty portion, using the dirtiest part, the tail
for a scrub brush. It would not be wise to scrub it with a material
harder than itself so using the tail end as a scrub brush worked well.
The dirtiest part needed the most scrubbing. By the time I worked
my way to the tail, that brush portion was fairly clean.

There is a proper, logical order to do things when restoring a boat.
Lord knows I have more important things to do on ECHO, like
wiring, but this stupid little task was one of the most satisfying job
I've done on the boat this year--because it eliminated an eyesore.

The second halyard, Spinnaker 2, unlike Spinnaker 1-- which
exited the mast on a sheave opposite the jib halyard, came out an
exit block and then went through an external block at the top of the
mast. Getting the spices, both the wire to rope, and rope to
messenger rope through the exit block was a hassle, and I almost
gave up thinking the two messenger line would part and I'd have to
fish the halyard back through. Luckily for me, smoothing out a few
hard spots in the splice did the trick. This halyard was even dirtier
and somewhat greasy too. It smelled like an old fish tank. I used
detergent, fabric softener and bleach which worked well as I didn't
have to scrub as much with this one.

I still have the jib and main halyards, and the topping lift yet to do. In
these cases the swaged ends look good so it is only a matter of
washing the ends. I may re-swage the ends with new thimbles just to
make the whole boat look consistent. Cost was $3.03 for the stainless
steel thimble and swage sleeve. I can afford another $9.09.

SPINNAKERS: At some point I have to go up the mast and fish a line
for a topping lift through the mast. No sign of where the foreguy was
attached. I guess the foreguy must have been run through a snatch
block at the bow toe rail. I don't have a spinnaker, but I'd like to have
all the cheap stuff done and ready to go for the day I do get a spinnaker.

I can get a brand new North Spinnaker, in a brand new turtle, with
Velcro closures for $1500, in exactly the right size for my boat! What a
deal! A new 1800 sq foot spinnaker should be $3500 up to $4500. At
that price I may be smart to get two. The fellow has two runners and a
reacher for sale. He also has a decent used one for $750. So my next
big purchase will be a kite and I may try to buy more than one. I want to
grab one of these new ones before someone else does.

TAMING THE MAIN: I dropped off my main at Quantum Sails to get
a "Dutchman System" put on it so I won't have to fight with flaking that
sail.

NEW BOOM: I've been thinking about getting a new boom for several
years. My friend Marty, who told me where I could find a used one in
"like new" condition. I can't believe my luck. Everything has been falling
into place for me-with the boat and in my personal life. I have never had
it so good.

The owner of this boom replaced with a better one -I suppose he bought
a lighter carbon boom, since this one is faultlessly perfect. The original
boat
has long ago been sold, and the boom has been sitting around with a rigger
for several years. The pin diameter is the same as the old boom, and the
length is only about 8 inches longer-I won't even need to cut it down. This
new one is already painted white, and I'll get it for less than the cost of
painting my old boom. It has three sheaves at the gooseneck, with space for
two more, and had four sheaves at the "Clue" end. That is enough for three
sets of reef lines, and the outhaul-all internal.

My gooseneck is floating, so I plan to fix that so I can add a rigid boom
vang. The new boom as fitting already installed for a vang, which my old
boom is missing. Perhaps I can get a vang from salvage down in Florida. All
the hurricanes must be making mincemeat of the yachts down there. All this
is coming together perfectly.

Bart

I have never spliced wire to rope, but after scrutinizing these
splices, I now have an idea how it's done. Have you ever done
any wire to rope splices, Oz?


OzOne wrote

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:06:37 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

Latest News on Restoring ECHO

HALYARDS: There's lots of rope coming out of ECHO's
mast base, five halyards, each of which is spiced wire to rope,
and the expose wire portion is swaged to a snap shackle.

Cut them off and reswage them every couple of years.
That's where they fail without warning.
You won't lose much and can do it for quite a few years before the
rest of the wire is cactus.

"Bart Senior" scribbled thusly:
I have never spliced wire to rope, but after scrutinizing these
splices, I now have an idea how it's done. Have you ever done
any wire to rope splices, Oz?

OzOne wrote:
Yep, done a few back when wire to rope was the way to go.
It's a PITA and far better to pay for it to be done. I believe they
are all done by machine now.

Yep, it's a big hassle. Not worth the time invested unless you have a
really big hang-up on self-reliance (which I can understand, but it can
be taken too far).


These days all rope seems to be the way.

Yes, it's much stronger & lighter, doesn't develop meathooks or saw
through anything. On Bart's boat, he might not even need to replace the
sheaves since they'd be pretty big.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote

"Bart Senior" scribbled thusly:
I have never spliced wire to rope, but after scrutinizing these
splices, I now have an idea how it's done. Have you ever done
any wire to rope splices, Oz?

OzOne wrote:
Yep, done a few back when wire to rope was the way to go.
It's a PITA and far better to pay for it to be done. I believe they
are all done by machine now.

Yep, it's a big hassle. Not worth the time invested unless you have a
really big hang-up on self-reliance (which I can understand, but it can
be taken too far).


It is a seamanship skill. I'd like to learn how to do it, since it may
come in handy some day. I've found splicing double-braided, and
three-strand useful.

On the other hand, I don't have time to play around with splice
wire to rope right now. Too many other jobs on the boat with
higher priority. I reswaged the Jib halyard, and I'm about to
scrub the rope portion--that will be three down, and two halyards
to go. Still no word on the new boom.

I made some new battens for HOOT today, and new mast blocks.
Tomorrow I get to test them out, along with that brand new Etchells
spinnaker my buddy Bill gave me. I'm still thanking my lucky stars
that he forgot to give that sail to the fellow who bought his Etchells!

This should be a good sail. A few of my best friends and driving
up to sail HOOT for the first time. Unfortunately, today was the
best wind. Only 5-10 knots predicted tomorrow.


These days all rope seems to be the way.

Yes, it's much stronger & lighter, doesn't develop meathooks or saw
through anything. On Bart's boat, he might not even need to replace the
sheaves since they'd be pretty big.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

No I do not have the longer battens. No point in retro fitting.
I want to toss the sail and buy a new main. It is old and shrunk.
I've lost 18" on the hoist and 10" on the foot. I'm thinking about
making an awning out of it. I should look at the other mains. I
don't expect they are any better. I guess I'll have to get new
battens if I get a new sail.

These are all 1978-83 vintage sails. The show very little use,
but they have shrunk, and of course they are heavy. I only have
two good sails, both spinnakers--one runner and one reacher.

I'm thinking I might want to start racing it next year. The plan is
to sand and repaint the hull, and a suit of white sails.

My mains have the old style E22 logo--which I like. Speaking
of the old logo, in this months Sailing World, I spotted a picture
of the Etchells I used to crew on. It has the old logo also. It
must be a very old stock photo, because when I raced it, I think
we had the new blue logo. Do you know when it changed over?
It must be at least ten years ago.

I'm trying to keep the vintage look to my Etchells. So if I order
a new main, I plan to ask for the old logo. I have the old style
tiller, wood cockpit sole, and wood top to the console. Some of
this could be tossed if I wanted to lighten up the boat some. I
did get rid of the winches, and I have yet to add a fine trim on the
jib. If I get serious about racing these boats I'll get a newer boat.

I've been thinking about lightening the cockpit sole by taking it
apart and drilling holes in the frames, and perhaps putting some
grooves in the deck for traction.

What brand of sails do you use on your Etchells? North? Most
people around here fun the DC sails.

Also, what do you think of the double tab jibs?

Bart

OzOne wrote

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:58:35 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

It is a seamanship skill. I'd like to learn how to do it, since it may
come in handy some day. I've found splicing double-braided, and
three-strand useful.
Don't bother Bart.
There are plenty of more valuable skills likeheavy to light lines
without a bulge for use as lightweather spinnaker sheets.

I made some new battens for HOOT today, and new mast blocks.

Do you have the new style longer batten pockets?
If you don't, and the sail is in good condition, it's worth having
them retro fitted.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

What is a double tab jib ? or a tab for that matter ?

Peter S/Y Anicula

"Bart Senior" wrote:

Next, I took it home with me and took a shower with the rope
portion.

Was there "soap on the rope"?

I hoped if I danced on the rope with the tub filled with
detergent it would clean up.

You are kinky, aren't you?

The dirtiest part needed the most scrubbing.

Wow, what a revelation! Thanks for sharing...

By the time I worked
my way to the tail, that brush portion was fairly clean.

I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?

LP

How and when do you use your OZ? I can only remember changing
them once in SF.

Bart

OzOne wrote

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 20:46:58 +0200, "Peter S/Y Anicula"
scribbled thusly:

What is a double tab jib ? or a tab for that matter ?

Peter S/Y Anicula



Jibs are hanked onto the forestay by a small piece of webbing and a
press stud or two.
With double tabs, one set is slightly longer and allows the jib luff
to take the curve of a soft forestay when in fact the stay is much
straighter because of the amount of backstay required for mainsail
shaping.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Thanks for the info.

I think we used short tabs most of the time in San Francisco.
I vaguely recall one rare light air race where we used the long tabs.

It was a long time ago.


OzOne wrote
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 04:10:00 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

How and when do you use your OZ? I can only remember changing
them once in SF.

Bart

What jibs are you using Bart?
I'll bet one is a North GM but the setup for each sail is different.
Basic is, if you find you're needing a lot of backstay, go for long
tabs.
If you need a little more power, go long.
Short tabs on flat water with steady breeze and a soft forestay, the
groove will be narrower but easy to stay in on flat water.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message news:SU81d.44059$mu.40755@okepread07...
"Bart Senior" wrote:


I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?


That would tie up the machine.

And we know he needs the washing machine for the girls that sail with him ;0)

Joe


LP

OzOne wrote in message ...
Jibs are hanked onto the forestay by a small piece of webbing and a
press stud or two.

Not in any boat I would own....
..

OzOne wrote ...
Jibs are hanked onto the forestay by a small piece of webbing and a
press stud or two.


Edgar wrote:
Not in any boat I would own....

I guess that small to medium sized one-designs are strictly out of your
picture, eh?

DSK

"Joe" wrote:
"Lady Pilot" wrote:
"Bart Senior" wrote:


I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?


That would tie up the machine.

Well, not in *my* machine...I have a front loader.

You can find those at the nearest laundry mat in the U.S.


And we know he needs the washing machine for the girls that sail with him
;0)

No doubt, Joe! chuckle

LP

Try throwing combo wire and rope in a washing machine
and then report back.

"Lady Pilot" wrote

"Joe" wrote:
"Lady Pilot" wrote:
"Bart Senior" wrote:


I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?


That would tie up the machine.

Bart Senior wrote:

Try throwing combo wire and rope in a washing machine
and then report back.

Before or after the divorce is final?

Cheers
Marty

I wish it were that easy. I like washing rope with washing
machines. My outhaul and reefing lines will be going in the
washer soon.

I finished hand washing my last wire-to-rope line--the
topping lift. It took me over four hours last night. Now
I won't be embarrassed when guests walk on deck.

Today I pick up my new boom, and my updated mainsail.
If the weather clears, and I get the new boom mounted, I'll
get to try them out soon. Mounting the boom will require
some help..

The prior owner removed the cleats and winches that served
the reefing function. I found and can reinstall the original cleats.

Using two line reefing--I'll need to two more blocks at the
mast base. I can get 60-13 SL - Stainless Steel Garhauer
blocks for $10. I like these. They are tough,all metal blocks.

http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=14

My plan is to move my staysail winches to fill the vacant
spots, and replace those with self-tailers I bought on eBay last
year. Three pairs of line stoppers will allow me to unload the
reefing winches.

A rigid vang, and a boom brake will wrap things up for the main.
And, that will probably be it for this year.

"Martin Baxter" wrote

Bart Senior wrote:
Try throwing combo wire and rope in a washing machine
and then report back.

Before or after the divorce is final?

Marty

"Bart Senior" wrote

It took me over four hours last night. Now
I won't be embarrassed when guests walk on deck.


You got the yellow stain out of the cockpit seats?

"Bart Senior" wrote
Try throwing combo wire and rope in a washing machine
and then report back.

"Lady Pilot" wrote

"Joe" wrote:
"Lady Pilot" wrote:
"Bart Senior" wrote:


I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?


That would tie up the machine.

You obviously didn't hear a word I said...typical man!

LP

I'm surprised. Men usually listen to men.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message
news:bvI9d.1417$EZ.459@okepread07...

"Bart Senior" wrote
Try throwing combo wire and rope in a washing machine
and then report back.

"Lady Pilot" wrote

"Joe" wrote:
"Lady Pilot" wrote:
"Bart Senior" wrote:


I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?


That would tie up the machine.

You obviously didn't hear a word I said...typical man!

LP

No one would doubt you on that, Jon.

You seem to be an authority on "men on men."

LP
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised. Men usually listen to men.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message
news:bvI9d.1417$EZ.459@okepread07...

"Bart Senior" wrote
Try throwing combo wire and rope in a washing machine
and then report back.

"Lady Pilot" wrote

"Joe" wrote:
"Lady Pilot" wrote:
"Bart Senior" wrote:


I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?


That would tie up the machine.

You obviously didn't hear a word I said...typical man!

LP

I defer to you. Clearly, you're the expect.

But wait... you said I was in your kill file?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message
news:qmJ9d.1422$EZ.850@okepread07...
No one would doubt you on that, Jon.

You seem to be an authority on "men on men."

LP
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised. Men usually listen to men.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message
news:bvI9d.1417$EZ.459@okepread07...

"Bart Senior" wrote
Try throwing combo wire and rope in a washing machine
and then report back.

"Lady Pilot" wrote

"Joe" wrote:
"Lady Pilot" wrote:
"Bart Senior" wrote:


I'm sure!

Why couldn't you just put the rope in the washing machine?


That would tie up the machine.

You obviously didn't hear a word I said...typical man!

LP

On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 20:11:39 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

I'm surprised. Men usually listen to men.


You wouldn't know, would you?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

You're right with respect to you.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 8 Oct 2004 20:11:39 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

I'm surprised. Men usually listen to men.


You wouldn't know, would you?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!