Swift Boat Liars contradicted by facts
 

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/ispol/109265583079530.xml?ispol

Not just a propaganda site, but mainstream media.

First hand account, not hearsay, rumor and innuendo.

Just the plain facts, not the distortions of the Swift Boat Liars.


--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

I'd certainly believe 250 vets vs the 5 Kerry drags around the country with
him. It would be pretty hard to get 250 individules to conspire to tell a lie
vs 5.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

On 22 Aug 2004 16:19:37 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) wrote:

I'd certainly believe 250 vets vs the 5 Kerry drags around the country with
him. It would be pretty hard to get 250 individules to conspire to tell a lie
vs 5.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"


I believe the total number of Navy personnel who served in the Swift
Boats is something like 3500. I don't find it all that strange that
250 can be dredged up for something like this. There certainly were
not 250 individuals who served aboard Kerry's boat. Take John
O'Neill, for example, the head of this political lynch mob. He never
met John Kerry until after the war on the Dick Cavett show. Of
course, he is quick to point out his evidence...someone who wasn't
there was told by someone who claims to have been, none of which is
supported by these same folks previous statements or the official
records.

You are easily convinced:) Yeah, why should we believe the records,
the guys who served aboard Kerry's boat, Jim Rassman or even the
previous statements of these same guys who now have changed their
stories, again and again? Did you find these guys credible when they
were smearing John McCain in the last election?

Even McCain is calling for Bush to condemn the group's ads. So far
he hasn't done it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"felton" wrote in message
...
On 22 Aug 2004 16:19:37 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) wrote:

I'd certainly believe 250 vets vs the 5 Kerry drags around the country
with
him. It would be pretty hard to get 250 individules to conspire to tell
a lie
vs 5.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"


I believe the total number of Navy personnel who served in the Swift
Boats is something like 3500. I don't find it all that strange that
250 can be dredged up for something like this. There certainly were
not 250 individuals who served aboard Kerry's boat. Take John
O'Neill, for example, the head of this political lynch mob. He never
met John Kerry until after the war on the Dick Cavett show. Of
course, he is quick to point out his evidence...someone who wasn't
there was told by someone who claims to have been, none of which is
supported by these same folks previous statements or the official
records.

You are easily convinced:) Yeah, why should we believe the records,
the guys who served aboard Kerry's boat, Jim Rassman or even the
previous statements of these same guys who now have changed their
stories, again and again? Did you find these guys credible when they
were smearing John McCain in the last election?

(SAIL LOCO) wrote:
I'd certainly believe 250 vets vs the 5 Kerry drags around the
country with
him. It would be pretty hard to get 250 individules to conspire to
tell a lie vs 5.

Not really. It's a question of motivation & background. Are Kerry's five
backed by a professional political hatchet studio? The "Swift Veterans
for Truth" are funded and organized 100% by a group that is the
Bush-Cheney teams top character assassins.

It's a question of what you want to believe. You and Dave & Bart & Joe
really really really want to believe all sorts of horrible things about
Kerry... he's bad, evil, communist, satanist, etc etc.

If you're OK with the likes Jerry Falwell & Rush Limbaugh telling you
what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more freedom,
personally.

DSK

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:39:31 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

Even McCain is calling for Bush to condemn the group's ads. So far
he hasn't done it.


By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

CRAWFORD, Texas - Former Republican Sen. Bob Dole suggested Sunday
that John Kerry (news - web sites) apologize for past testimony before
Congress about alleged atrocities during the Vietnam War and joined
critics of the Democratic presidential candidate who say he received
an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds."

Dole also called on Kerry to release all the records of his service in
Vietnam.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Horvath wrote:

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

CRAWFORD, Texas - Former Republican Sen. Bob Dole suggested Sunday
that John Kerry (news - web sites) apologize for past testimony before
Congress about alleged atrocities during the Vietnam War and joined
critics of the Democratic presidential candidate who say he received
an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds."

Dole also called on Kerry to release all the records of his service in
Vietnam.

Since when did you start paying attention to losers?

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Horvath wrote:

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

CRAWFORD, Texas - Former Republican Sen. Bob Dole suggested...

So when did you start paying attention to losers?

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

You and Dave & Bart & Joe
really really really want to believe all sorts of horrible things about
Kerry... he's bad, evil, communist, satanist, etc etc..

Is it true or not that there is a memorial in HoChiMin City thanking J. Kerry
for helping end the war?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

SAIL LOCO wrote:

Is it true or not that there is a memorial in HoChiMin City thanking J. Kerry
for helping end the war?

If you believe the kooks at World Nut Daily, yes.

See: http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Dole should be ashamed of himself. He should know that it's
not the degree of injury that qualifies someone for a Purple
Heart.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:39:31 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

Even McCain is calling for Bush to condemn the group's ads. So far
he hasn't done it.

You and Dave & Bart & Joe
really really really want to believe all sorts of horrible things about
Kerry... he's bad, evil, communist, satanist, etc etc..

SAIL LOCO wrote:
Is it true or not that there is a memorial in HoChiMin City thanking J. Kerry
for helping end the war?

I don't know, but I doubt it. Do you believe there is? Who told you so,
and what do they gain by getting you to believe it?

You've been sold a bill of goods, and are angry at the rest of us for
not getting swindled too.

DSK

I'm not sure. I heard he won the Deep Purple Award for Smoke on the Water.
Scout

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
You and Dave & Bart & Joe
really really really want to believe all sorts of horrible things about
Kerry... he's bad, evil, communist, satanist, etc etc..

Is it true or not that there is a memorial in HoChiMin City thanking J.
Kerry
for helping end the war?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

On 23 Aug 2004 01:59:06 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) wrote this
crap:

You and Dave & Bart & Joe
really really really want to believe all sorts of horrible things about
Kerry... he's bad, evil, communist, satanist, etc etc..

Is it true or not that there is a memorial in HoChiMin City thanking J. Kerry
for helping end the war?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"



X-URL:
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/st...page=200405311
40357545

Kerry Honored by Vietnamese Communists

----------

Communist Vietnamese Honor John Kerry, the War Protestor, as a Hero
in the Communist Victory over the United States in the Vietnam War.

In the Vietnamese Communist War Remnants Museum (formerly known as
the "War Crimes Museum") in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), a photograph
of John Kerry hangs in a room dedicated to the anti-war activists who
helped the Vietnamese Communists win the Vietnam War. The photograph
shows then-Massachusetts Lieutenant Governor Kerry being greeted by
the General Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, Comrade Do
Muoi.

Jeffrey M. Epstein of Vietnam Vets for the Truth acquired the
photograph over the Memorial Day weekend as America was commemorating
its military heroes. Epstein's organization, Vietnam Vets for the
Truth, had issued a general request last week for photographs
documenting Kerry's activities on behalf of the enemy. Bob Shirley, a
Vietnam Swift Boat veteran (www.pcf45.com), sent the photograph to
Epstein in response to that call. Shirley recently joined over 200
other Swift Boat veterans in signing an open letter questioning
Kerry's fitness to serve as Commander-in-Chief.

Photograph of John Kerry meeting with Comrade Do Muoi, General
Secretary of the Communist Party of Vietnam, in Vietnam, July 15-18,
1993. Photo taken in the War Remnants Museum (formerly the "War
Crimes Museum") in Saigon in May 2004.

Jeff Epstein explains the importance of the photograph:

"This photograph's unquestionable significance lies in its placement
in the American protestors' section of the War Crimes Museum in
Saigon. The Vietnamese communists clearly recognize John Kerry's
contributions to their victory. This find can be compared to the
discovery of a painting of Neville Chamberlain hanging in a place of
honor in Hitler's Eagle's Nest in 1945."

War Remnants Museum, Saigon, May 2004. The uniformed sailor is from
an Australian minesweeper docked in the Saigon River.

Photographer Bill Lupetti, who is currently visiting Vietnam, took
the photographs in Saigon during his recent visit there. Lupetti, a
former Hospital Corpsman, is also a Swift Boat veteran.

Below the photograph of John Kerry are explanatory placards in
English, French, Vietnamese, and Chinese. The English placard reads:

"Mr. Do Muoi, Secretary General of the Vietnamese Communist Party
met with Congressman and Veterans Delegation in Vietnam (July 15-18,
1993)"

Senator Kerry may argue today that his anti-war protests did not
render support to the enemy in time of war and that his activities
did not violate the definition of treason given in Article III,
Section 3, of the US Constitution. This exhibit paying tribute to
Kerry in the War Protestors Hall of the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi
Minh City tells a very different story. The Vietnamese communists
clearly feel that the American anti-war protestors were a very
important force in undermining support in the United States for
American war efforts, a force that contributed materially to ultimate
communist victory in 1975.

On Fox News' Hannity and Colmes show on Friday, May 28, 2004, Rear
Admiral Roy Hoffman (USN, Retired) accused John Kerry of being a
traitor because of his anti-war activities. This photo, which
demonstrates the extent to which the Vietnamese communists
acknowledge that he supported them during the Vietnam War,
corroborates this charge. (Hoffman, the former commander of the Swift
Boat force and one-time Kerry's superior officer, is Chairman of
Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth (SwiftVets.com).

Vietnam Vets for the Truth (KerryLied.com) was established for the
sole purpose of organizing a rally pointing up Kerry's lies during
the so-called "Winter Soldier" hearings in the US Senate in 1971. The
rally, appropriately called "Kerry Lied," will be held on Capitol
Hill on September 12th.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Horvath wrote:

X-URL:
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/st...page=200405311
40357545

... Vietnam Vets for the Truth (KerryLied.com) was established for the
sole purpose of organizing a rally pointing up Kerry's lies during
the so-called "Winter Soldier" hearings in the US Senate in 1971. The
rally, appropriately called "Kerry Lied," will be held on Capitol
Hill on September 12th.

So, they're 34 years too late?

Actually, if that is true then they are a group of Nixon stooges, paid
out of his slush fund. Maybe they've been out of the public eye for so
long because they were in jail?

It's just more of the same slander & character assassination, from the
same group of paid shills & proven liars... don't you have anything good
to say about Bush & Cheney instead?

DSK

Scout wrote:

I'm not sure. I heard he won the Deep Purple Award for Smoke on the Water.

And Fire in the Sky. Don't forget the fire in the sky.

--
//-Walt
//
// http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040514/matson.gif

"Phil Morris" wrote in message link.net...
snip In the case of Ted Sampley, the same guy who did Bush's dirty work in
going after Sen. John McCain in the 2000 Republican primaries is doing
the job against Kerry this year. Sampley dared compare McCain, who
spent five years as a Vietnam POW, with 'the Manchurian Candidate.'"
[Dionne op-ed, Washington Post, 4/27/04]

Sampley Called McCain a Coward and a Traitor.
Sampley accused McCain of being a weak-minded coward who had escaped
death by collaborating with the enemy. Sampley claimed that McCain had
first been compromised by the Vietnamese, then recruited by the
Soviets." [Salon.com]snip
Actually this what Sampley said about McCain:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm

I don't know, but I doubt it. Do you believe there is? Who told you so,
and what do they gain by getting you to believe it?.

It's been on the news and in the papers........... the liberal papers.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

SAIL LOCO wrote:

I don't know, but I doubt it. Do you believe there is? Who told you so,
and ...

It's been on the news and in the papers........... the liberal papers.

Got a citation? I mean a real publication, not just some wingnut kook
website.

what do they gain by getting you to believe it?.

Another sucker. One born every minute.

--
//-Walt
//
// http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040514/matson.gif

We should be calling him Stumpy anyway!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 07:48:33 -0400, DSK wrote:

It's just more of the same slander & character assassination, from the
same group of paid shills & proven liars... don't you have anything good
to say about Bush & Cheney instead?

DSK

Poor Horvath! Now you've really stumped him.

BB

DSK wrote in message ...
(SAIL LOCO) wrote:
I'd certainly believe 250 vets vs the 5 Kerry drags around the
country with
him. It would be pretty hard to get 250 individules to conspire to
tell a lie vs 5.

Not really. It's a question of motivation & background. Are Kerry's five
backed by a professional political hatchet studio? The "Swift Veterans
for Truth" are funded and organized 100% by a group that is the
Bush-Cheney teams top character assassins.

It's a question of what you want to believe. You and Dave & Bart & Joe
really really really want to believe all sorts of horrible things about
Kerry... he's bad, evil, communist, satanist, etc etc.

Doug,

I wish Kerry did not act the way he did, and hang out with the people
that he did hang out with during the Vietnam era. Fact is he did what
he did and it was very wrong IMO. What he did was bad. He called is
"brothers" evil, satanist baby killers.

If you're OK with the likes Micheal Moore & Jane Fonda & Kerry telling
you what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more
freedom,and truth personally.

Joe




If you're OK with the likes Jerry Falwell & Rush Limbaugh telling you
what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more freedom,
personally.

DSK

"Joe" wrote in message

| If you're OK with the likes Micheal Moore & Jane Fonda & Kerry telling
| you what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more
| freedom,and truth personally.

From BUSH????? Bwahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!

Come on now Joe.... even you must see the humour in that statement!!

Both Kerry & Bush are professional liars... you just like the sweet nothings
Bush whispers to you while he's screwing you up the ass.... rather than
Kerry's laments to kiss it and make it all better.

You guys are ****ed with either of these two losers!!

CM

On 23 Aug 2004 12:33:10 -0700, (Joe) wrote:

DSK wrote in message ...
(SAIL LOCO) wrote:
I'd certainly believe 250 vets vs the 5 Kerry drags around the
country with
him. It would be pretty hard to get 250 individules to conspire to
tell a lie vs 5.

Not really. It's a question of motivation & background. Are Kerry's five
backed by a professional political hatchet studio? The "Swift Veterans
for Truth" are funded and organized 100% by a group that is the
Bush-Cheney teams top character assassins.

It's a question of what you want to believe. You and Dave & Bart & Joe
really really really want to believe all sorts of horrible things about
Kerry... he's bad, evil, communist, satanist, etc etc.

Doug,

I wish Kerry did not act the way he did, and hang out with the people
that he did hang out with during the Vietnam era. Fact is he did what
he did and it was very wrong IMO. What he did was bad. He called is
"brothers" evil, satanist baby killers.

Really? Damn, Joe, you never pass up an opportunity to miss the
point. Why do you think Kerry opposed the war when he returned from
it? Do you think he just wanted to take the opportunity to brand all
veterans as "evil, satanist baby killers" or do you think he might
have been trying to stop a war that had killed something like 50,000
Americans by then, close to 1 Million Vietnamese and was tearing
*this* country apart? Do you think the war was right and Kerry was
wrong in opposing it? Kerry was primarily questioning the leadership
of the war..the political leadership and the military leadership. I
wasn't there and I know you weren't, but Kerry was and he took a stand
based on his principles that he pays for yet today among those who
disagree. Too bad we didn't have more political courage among our own
elected leaders in those days, or it wouldn't have lasted as long as
it did.

One of the reasons our military is as good as they are today is
because they learned from all the mistakes in Vietnam. They are the
first to admit it, unlike you. Read what Tommy Franks has to say...he
doesn't disagree with the basic points that John Kerry raised back
then. The only thing good about making a mistake is the ability to
learn from it. Kerry proved he has that ability, unlike our current
President who has never and will never admit a mistake. Now that is a
dangerous trait for anyone, but it is unacceptable in a President.




If you're OK with the likes Micheal Moore & Jane Fonda & Kerry telling
you what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more
freedom,and truth personally.

Joe

You are personally free to continue not to think, and that is the
truth:)



If you're OK with the likes Jerry Falwell & Rush Limbaugh telling you
what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more freedom,
personally.

DSK

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:42:03 -0300, "Capt. Mooron"
wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message

| If you're OK with the likes Micheal Moore & Jane Fonda & Kerry telling
| you what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more
| freedom,and truth personally.

From BUSH????? Bwahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!

Come on now Joe.... even you must see the humour in that statement!!

Both Kerry & Bush are professional liars... you just like the sweet nothings
Bush whispers to you while he's screwing you up the ass.... rather than
Kerry's laments to kiss it and make it all better.

You guys are ****ed with either of these two losers!!

CM

Two? Hey, in some states they will have three to choose from:)
Personally I like gridlock, so unreasonable people have to compromise
to get anything done. Usually when you read about a wise and just
King, it is in a fairy tale.

Joe wrote:
Doug,

I wish Kerry did not act the way he did, and hang out with the people
that he did hang out with during the Vietnam era.

Great. I wish I had not hung out with some of the people I did during
the Viet Nam era. So what?

Are you comparing Bush's service to Kerry's? No, you're just badmouthing
Kerry 'cuz you think it's cool.

.... What he did was bad. He called is
"brothers" evil, satanist baby killers.

No, he said that there were atrocities being committed by *some*
servicemen in Viet Nam. That was a fact.


If you're OK with the likes Micheal Moore & Jane Fonda & Kerry telling
you what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more
freedom,and truth personally.

Why assume that either of them are telling me what to do? The facts are
out on the street... jobs are down, the economy sucks, the Attorney
General is locking people up forever without cause, the national debt is
skyrocketing, the poor are paying higher taxes while the rich skate,
health care has become a lottery, the pollution of our air & water is
going full steam ahead, the Army is tied down in a pointless war, our
military has been ordered to torture prisoners, our intellignece
services have been forced to wear ideoligical blinders...

The list goes on and on and on.

DSK

In article ,
Joe wrote:
I wish Kerry did not act the way he did, and hang out with the people
that he did hang out with during the Vietnam era. Fact is he did what
he did and it was very wrong IMO. What he did was bad. He called is
"brothers" evil, satanist baby killers.

There's nothing wrong with you not liking what Kerry said or did. Just
don't lie about it. That's the issue.

If you're OK with the likes Micheal Moore & Jane Fonda & Kerry telling
you what to think & how to vote, then OK... I prefer a bit more
freedom,and truth personally.

Joe, Joe, you're missing the point. The point is that we don't want
anyone telling us what we can or can't do. That's what Bush, Asscroft,
Rummy, Chumpy and the rest are trying to do. If you really do prefer
a bit more freedom and truth, stop believe the lies you're being told
by those in power.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

At least Kerry was out where shooting was goiing on and not hanging out
at the Officiers Club in Texas

At least Kerry was out where shooting was goiing on and not hanging out
at the Officiers Club in Texas

Kerry asked for Swift boat duty because at the time they were not doing patrol
missions. After he was assigned their role changed. It was then he wanted out
of Swift boat duty. These are facts stated by the Swift boat commander.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

So, what you're saying is that he acted rationally??

I agree.

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
At least Kerry was out where shooting was goiing on and not hanging out
at the Officiers Club in Texas

Kerry asked for Swift boat duty because at the time they were not doing patrol
missions. After he was assigned their role changed. It was then he wanted out
of Swift boat duty. These are facts stated by the Swift boat commander.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

On 24 Aug 2004 04:53:19 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) wrote this
crap:

At least Kerry was out where shooting was goiing on and not hanging out
at the Officiers Club in Texas

Kerry asked for Swift boat duty because at the time they were not doing patrol
missions. After he was assigned their role changed. It was then he wanted out
of Swift boat duty. These are facts stated by the Swift boat commander.


Not only that. The French-looking John Kerry volunteered for the Navy
because he asked for a draft deferment to study in Paris, and was
refused.

What was he going to study in Paris? White flag sewing? Tactics of
surrender? How to say, "I give up," in 47 languages?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!