Kerry to win the old fashioned American way
 

On 20 Aug 2004 17:44:12 -0500, Dave wrote:

By suing.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1506&ncid=2043


Or by exposing the truth? Why so worried, Dave? I think it is time
to lift some of those rocks and see who scurries out.

I'm sure that the experts like O'Reilly would be able to give him some
advice about when to sue and when not to.

The Swiftboat for the Untruth will quickly collapse under their own
lying weight.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
The hell with voting. Let's just bring on the lawyers and let them fight it
out. And may the best lawyers win.

You're right about the to hell with voting part. Bush and company are
again trying to disenfranchise voters in Florida.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

felton wrote in message . ..
On 20 Aug 2004 17:44:12 -0500, Dave wrote:

By suing.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1506&ncid=2043


Or by exposing the truth? Why so worried, Dave? I think it is time
to lift some of those rocks and see who scurries out.


Yelp, The swift boat guys are showing Kerry in his own voice stabbing
his fellow sailors in the back. Thats the truth. His lawsuit will be
laughed out of court.

4mo=3purple hearts+a bronze star+ a Silver Star -----Yeah right..
super hero to Jane Hanoi fonda maybe, everone else can see right thru
it...

Joe

On 20 Aug 2004 20:43:17 -0700, (Joe) wrote:

felton wrote in message . ..
On 20 Aug 2004 17:44:12 -0500, Dave wrote:

By suing.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1506&ncid=2043


Or by exposing the truth? Why so worried, Dave? I think it is time
to lift some of those rocks and see who scurries out.


Yelp, The swift boat guys are showing Kerry in his own voice stabbing
his fellow sailors in the back. Thats the truth. His lawsuit will be
laughed out of court.

So basically you are admitting that your grudge with Kerry is his
anti-war stance taken AFTER he served. Well, some folks are slow
learners. Most people know what a huge cluster **** that war was.
Kerry was there. Bush wasn't. He has every right to express his
opinion.

4mo=3purple hearts+a bronze star+ a Silver Star -----Yeah right..
super hero to Jane Hanoi fonda maybe, everone else can see right thru
it...

Joe

He has every right to express his
opinion.

In my opinion he made himself look like a liar in his attempt to fool the
public at the time.
Facts:
Kerry said he and others committed atrocities which consisted of:
1. Firing in free fire zones. DUH, well that's what you do in a free fire
zone.
2. Participated in harrassment and interdiction fire. That's a common
military tactic which consisted in Vietnam of firing shells during the night at
known VC supply trails. Nothing wrong with that. We spent every night on the
destroyer I was on doing the same thing.
3. Shooting the enemy with 50 cal. machine guns. When your being shot at you
shoot back with whatever you have. I don't get that. I guess when you toss a
granede at the enemy that's really bad.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

On 21 Aug 2004 05:31:31 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) wrote:

He has every right to express his
opinion.

In my opinion he made himself look like a liar in his attempt to fool the
public at the time.
Facts:
Kerry said he and others committed atrocities which consisted of:
1. Firing in free fire zones. DUH, well that's what you do in a free fire
zone.
2. Participated in harrassment and interdiction fire. That's a common
military tactic which consisted in Vietnam of firing shells during the night at
known VC supply trails. Nothing wrong with that. We spent every night on the
destroyer I was on doing the same thing.
3. Shooting the enemy with 50 cal. machine guns. When your being shot at you
shoot back with whatever you have. I don't get that. I guess when you toss a
granede at the enemy that's really bad.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

The one relevant fact left out of the new smear ad against Kerry
quoting his testimony about Viet Nam is that he made clear, in HIS
testimony, that he was repeating the testimony of others. He wasn't
making the claims, he was repeating the charges.

His original testimony began with the phrase..."they said". That was
conveniently ommitted from the Lying Republican Swift Boat Vets ad.
They made it appear that he was the source of the charges, when he
wasn't.

Kerry was trying to stop the war. In case you weren't around, so were
most Americans by the 1970s. He was trying to put an end to that sad
chapter in our history and his efforts probably saved Americans and
Vietnamese if the war was shortened by one day.

Face it. He went, he served, he was right and this new ad is as
dishonest as the last. If you enjoy beling lied to, vote Republican.

On 20 Aug 2004 16:24:32 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

I'm sure that the experts like O'Reilly would be able to give him some
advice about when to sue and when not to.

The Swiftboat for the Untruth will quickly collapse under their own
lying weight.


They're becoming more popular than ever. OTOH, Michael Moore is
collapsing under his own weight.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Dave wrote:

By suing.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1506&ncid=2043

Fascinating. First they try to silence the vets by threatening to sue any
outlet carrying their ads.

You're a lawyer, doesn't it make perfect sense to you?


When that doesn't work they try to suppress the book by threatening its
publishers.

I don't know of any attempts to suppress any book... last time I looked
it was languishing on the bargain table at Barns & Noble.


The hell with voting.

Yep, that's exactly the way Bush & Cheney feel about it.

DSK

His original testimony began with the phrase..."they said". That was
conveniently ommitted from the Lying Republican Swift Boat Vets ad.
They made it appear that he was the source of the charges, when he
wasn't.

I've listened to complete recordings and Kerry says "I did this or that"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

I'm predicting that with all this publicity about Swift boats they will become
the Hummer of the waterways.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

felton wrote


So basically you are admitting that your grudge with Kerry is his
anti-war stance taken AFTER he served.

No I just do not like backstabbing people that serve with you then go
behind your back and said you were killing babies.

Many served that did not like the war, yet they felt no need to get
left wing liberals worked up so much that they had the urge to spit on
anyone in uniform.

Well, some folks are slow
learners. Most people know what a huge cluster **** that war was.
Kerry was there. Bush wasn't. He has every right to express his
opinion.

Yes he had that right. And he could of expressed his distain for the
war without screwing his "band of Brothers" and stabbing them in the
back, and selling them out for the likes of Hanoi Jane.

He is the major factor that made it a undesirable thing to put on a
uniform from 1969 to 1991.

Most likely the reason you never put one on.

Joe



4mo=3purple hearts+a bronze star+ a Silver Star -----Yeah right..
super hero to Jane Hanoi fonda maybe, everone else can see right thru
it...

Joe

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
They're becoming more popular than ever. OTOH, Michael Moore is
collapsing under his own weight.

Sure, whatever. Are you really that stupid? OTOH, MM's movie is
a blockbuster.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Good one loco... we just need to get Arnold interested.

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
I'm predicting that with all this publicity about Swift boats they will become
the Hummer of the waterways.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

On 21 Aug 2004 21:38:46 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) wrote:

His original testimony began with the phrase..."they said". That was
conveniently ommitted from the Lying Republican Swift Boat Vets ad.
They made it appear that he was the source of the charges, when he
wasn't.

I've listened to complete recordings and Kerry says "I did this or that"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Allow me to refresh your failing memory:



"Kerry’s 1971 Testimony Was Relating the Stories He Heard From Fellow
Vietnam Veterans—Incidents Which Have Been Openly Admitted &
Investigated Since.

Kerry Spoke About Testimony He Had Heard From Vietnam Veterans. “I
would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that
several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over
150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans
testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated
incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full
awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to
describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in
the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences
in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what
this country, in a sense, made them do.” – John Kerry [Senate Foreign
Relations Committee Testimony, 4/22/71]

In 1971 Kerry Condemned America’s Political & Military Leadership—Not
His Fellow Veterans

Kerry’s Testimony Was an Indictment of America’s Political Leadership
Not Fellow Veterans.

We are also here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are
the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to
ask where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric and so many others.
Where are they now that we, the men whom they sent off to war, have
returned? These are commanders who have deserted their troops, and
there is no more serious crime in the law of war. The Army says they
never leave their wounded. The Marines say they never leave even their
dead. These men have left all the casualties and retreated behind a
pious shield of public rectitude. They have left the real stuff of
their reputation bleaching behind them in the sun in this country.” –
John Kerry [Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony, 4/22/71]

Kerry Believed Responsibility Did Not Lie With Veterans. Mr. Kerry: My
feeling, Senator, on Lieutenant Calley is what he did quite obviously
was a horrible, horrible, horrible thing and I have no bone to pick
with the fact that he was prosecuted. But I think that in this
question you have to separate guilt from responsibility, and I think
clearly the responsibility for what has happened there lies elsewhere.
I think it lies with the men who designed free fire zones. I think it
lies with the men who encourage body counts. [Senate Foreign Relations
Committee Testimony, 4/22/71]

On 21 Aug 2004 19:29:24 -0700, (Joe) wrote:

felton wrote


So basically you are admitting that your grudge with Kerry is his
anti-war stance taken AFTER he served.

No I just do not like backstabbing people that serve with you then go
behind your back and said you were killing babies.

Really? How do you feel about John McCain? Who stabbed him in the
back during the last election? Hint: It wasn't John Kerry.


Many served that did not like the war, yet they felt no need to get
left wing liberals worked up so much that they had the urge to spit on
anyone in uniform.

Left wing liberals? Is that who you think was against the war? Were
those all left wing liberals rioting in the 60s, all stirred up by
John McCain? The antiwar movement finally brought that tragic war to
an end, saving countless lives. The military learned many lessons
from that, but sadly not much else good came from that mess.


Well, some folks are slow
learners. Most people know what a huge cluster **** that war was.
Kerry was there. Bush wasn't. He has every right to express his
opinion.

Yes he had that right. And he could of expressed his distain for the
war without screwing his "band of Brothers" and stabbing them in the
back, and selling them out for the likes of Hanoi Jane.

He is the major factor that made it a undesirable thing to put on a
uniform from 1969 to 1991.

You are insane. He, personally, was the major factor in all this that
you see.


Most likely the reason you never put one on.

Whatever you say, Rambo.


Joe



4mo=3purple hearts+a bronze star+ a Silver Star -----Yeah right..
super hero to Jane Hanoi fonda maybe, everone else can see right thru
it...

Joe

On 21 Aug 2004 21:35:20 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
They're becoming more popular than ever. OTOH, Michael Moore is
collapsing under his own weight.

Sure, whatever. Are you really that stupid? OTOH, MM's movie is
a blockbuster.


Only if you call a fizzle a blockbuster.




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Allow me to refresh your failing memory:.

Excuse me but my memory is not failing. Kerry has stated " I committed those
same atrocities"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Thank god for John McCain. Even he's so sick of the crap
(the same crap Bush pulled on him), that he's asked Dubya
to disavow the SFFT. So far, Bush hasn't done it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Allow me to refresh your failing memory:.

Excuse me but my memory is not failing. Kerry has stated " I committed
those
same atrocities"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

The greatest number of ticket sales ever for a documentary?
Up for a couple Academy Awards. Yup. It's a fizzle.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On 21 Aug 2004 21:35:20 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
They're becoming more popular than ever. OTOH, Michael Moore is
collapsing under his own weight.

Sure, whatever. Are you really that stupid? OTOH, MM's movie is
a blockbuster.


Only if you call a fizzle a blockbuster.




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:38:02 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

The greatest number of ticket sales ever for a documentary?
Up for a couple Academy Awards. Yup. It's a fizzle.


It's not a documentary. It's an "Op-ed."
It's mostly fiction.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Horvath wrote:
(Jonathan Ganz) wrote this crap:

Sure, whatever. Are you really that stupid? OTOH, MM's movie is
a blockbuster.

Only if you call a fizzle a blockbuster.

So what do you call a fizzle that takes in $100,000,000 at the box office?

Hint: it starts with a B and ends with an R.

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Joe,

Seem like a great chance for the Brotherhood of Truth to get to prove
their statement correct. Go to court and prove you're right under Oath.

After all that is how Bush/Cheney got elected.

Ole Thom

It's going to win an Academy Award for documentary.
It's a blockbuster. You're stupid. All facts.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:38:02 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

The greatest number of ticket sales ever for a documentary?
Up for a couple Academy Awards. Yup. It's a fizzle.


It's not a documentary. It's an "Op-ed."
It's mostly fiction.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:49:56 -0400, Walt
wrote this crap:

Horvath wrote:
(Jonathan Ganz) wrote this crap:

Sure, whatever. Are you really that stupid? OTOH, MM's movie is
a blockbuster.

Only if you call a fizzle a blockbuster.

So what do you call a fizzle that takes in $100,000,000 at the box office?

Hint: it starts with a B and ends with an R.


Fiction. Even Michael Moore calls it an Op-ed, and not a documentary.




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:38:40 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

It's going to win an Academy Award for documentary.
It's a blockbuster. You're stupid. All facts.


It's fiction. Even Michael Moore calls it an Op-ed, not a
documentary.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

I guess the Academy Award committee isn't buying it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:38:40 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

It's going to win an Academy Award for documentary.
It's a blockbuster. You're stupid. All facts.


It's fiction. Even Michael Moore calls it an Op-ed, not a
documentary.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Don't like the facts huh Mr. Poodle...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 20 Aug 2004 16:24:32 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

Bush and company are
again trying to disenfranchise voters in Florida.

And again the old change the subject ploy.

On 23 Aug 2004 11:38:05 -0500, Dave wrote:

On 20 Aug 2004 16:24:32 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

Bush and company are
again trying to disenfranchise voters in Florida.

And again the old change the subject ploy.

Well, what subject would you like to discuss, Dave? Are you
suggesting that it is somehow inapproriate for the Kerry campaign to
defend itself against an obvious pack of lies?

You know, I somehow recall George Bush and his handlers taking legal
steps to stop the publication of a George Bush tell-all titled
"Fortunate Son."

Please be so kind as to enlighten me as to what point you are trying
to make, again.

Mr. Poodle is changing the subject again, but of course, that's ok,
since he's a Republican.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:52:51 -0400, DSK said:

I don't know of any attempts to suppress any book

Guess you haven't been following the news.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Mr. Poodle is changing the subject. Bad dog!

In article ,
Dave wrote:
Not at all. I'm suggesting that if the accusations are false the appropriate
defense is to show that they're false, rather than to try and change the
subject. The subject of the book and the ads is Kerry's service. Screaming
about who's delivering the message is simply a lawyers' game of smoke and
mirrors, designed to disguise their inability to effectively counter the
message itself.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Ok Mr. Poodle. You win.

You're such a good dog! Sit, get doggie treat...

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 24 Aug 2004 10:20:20 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

Mr. Poodle is changing the subject. Bad dog!

I know you may find this hard to understand, Jonathan, but responding
directly to a question isn't changing the subject.

You're truly making yourself a laughing-stock. Name-caller-in-chief of the
group, you accuse others of name-calling. Petty Officer-in-charge of the
subject changers' brigade, you accuse others of changing the subject.

Childish.
(yes, you're a child)
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"Dave" wrote:

You're truly making yourself a laughing-stock. Name-caller-in-chief of the
group, you accuse others of name-calling. Petty Officer-in-charge of the
subject changers' brigade, you accuse others of changing the subject.

Nice summary of Jon Boy! All of it true.

LP

Of course, that's a typical response from a non-sailing,
ugly dyke. But I'm not calling her names. I'm just telling
the truth.

In article 6kcXc.3980$gl.2890@okepread07,
Lady Pilot wrote:

"Dave" wrote:

You're truly making yourself a laughing-stock. Name-caller-in-chief of the
group, you accuse others of name-calling. Petty Officer-in-charge of the
subject changers' brigade, you accuse others of changing the subject.

Nice summary of Jon Boy! All of it true.

LP




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."