Advanced Question [ 10 points ]
 

The Soling keelboat beat out the Etchells and other keelboats to
become the Olympic three man keelboat, despite the fact the
Etchells, a similar design, is a faster boat.

Etchells historians will say that the Etchells class was ripped off,
since the Etchells is a faster boat because its greater waterline
length. This is true.

I feel the Soling won the Olympic three man keelboat competition
because of a fundamental design difference between the two boats.

What is the most fundamental and significant difference between the
Soling and the Etchells keelboats? [10 points]

Advanced Question [ 10 points ]
 

Bart Senior wrote:
The Soling keelboat beat out the Etchells and other keelboats to
become the Olympic three man keelboat, despite the fact the
Etchells, a similar design, is a faster boat.

Etchells historians will say that the Etchells class was ripped off,
since the Etchells is a faster boat because its greater waterline
length. This is true.

Well, it's faster for a couple fo reasons but a longer waterline sure
doesn't hurt.


I feel the Soling won the Olympic three man keelboat competition
because of a fundamental design difference between the two boats.

What is the most fundamental and significant difference between the
Soling and the Etchells keelboats? [10 points]

The Soling is smaller, has less form stability, a spade rudder, a higher
& smaller transom (indicating a less full & flat run, which is another
speed factor favoring the Etchells), and is cheaper. This last is the
reason the Olympic committee *said* they selected it. IMHO since the
selection board was 100% European, there was no chance an American boat
would be selected no matter good it was.

Bonus question- why hasn't the 505 ever been selected as the Olympic boat?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Advanced Question [ 10 points ]
 

10 points to you Doug!

Well you hit the main point I wanted to make. The Soling has a
spade rudder versus the Etchells which has a skeg hung rudder.

I find the handling on the Soling to be exceptional. While the
Etchells handles and steers well, it looses out in a steering comparision.
Also, an Etchells can't put on the brakes like a Soling, which comes
in handy while docking.

I used to own a 5o5 named "Over Easy". I've read the 505 was
never submitted for consideration for fear it would ruin the class.

As you can see the Etchells class has thrived while the Soling class
has died because the rock stars with big budgets drove out the
regulars.

5o5's are a lot like Etchells in that the owners tend to trick them out
and re-rig them. You will usually see places where holes have been
filled as cleats and so forth are moved around. There are many
controls and lots of ideas on how to set up the running rigging.

I'd enjoy getting another of these boats just for the fun of re-rigging
it.

I was heavy for the 505 and sold it. Perhaps I would have kept it if
I stayed in the Bay Area. Mine had a continuous halyard for the
spinnaker attached to the center and head, and a nice launcher
setup with a tunnel in the bow that led back to a nylon sock that
made hoisting and dousing relatively easy--although nothing is easy
on a 5o5 when it is windy.

Mine was a Parker. There are some nice old wooden 5o5's around
that started out with Parker hulls. They will make you drool with envy
when you see them. I don't generally like wooden boats except for
small dinghies which are small enough that the extra time to keep them
bristol is not a hassle but a joy.

I should have named mine "Ear Ache" because I got a few ear infections
from being dumped in the water. now you have me thinking about
getting another dinghy. I don't think there is good dinghy for a man
my size with a crew.

Bart Senior


DSK wrote

What is the most fundamental and significant difference between the
Soling and the Etchells keelboats? [10 points]

The Soling is smaller, has less form stability, a spade rudder, a higher
& smaller transom (indicating a less full & flat run, which is another
speed factor favoring the Etchells), and is cheaper. This last is the
reason the Olympic committee *said* they selected it. IMHO since the
selection board was 100% European, there was no chance an American boat
would be selected no matter good it was.

Bonus question- why hasn't the 505 ever been selected as the Olympic boat?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Advanced Question [ 10 points ]
 

OzOne wrote:
BTW, I think you're wrong re steering the Etchells, they track
beautifully, are extremely responsive and not as fidgetty as the
Soling.

I've never skippered an Etchells and wouldn't consider a Soling
"fidgetty" although it is not as consistant on the helm as some other
boats. I wonder if the angle of the rudder post has something to do with
it... IIRC the Soling is vertical and the Etchells is raked forward
slightly?

Bart Senior wrote:
I used to own a 5o5 named "Over Easy".

Good name.

... I've read the 505 was
never submitted for consideration for fear it would ruin the class.

I think that's the official party line nowadays, but back in the 1960s
and '70s they were itching for it. Full of talk about how much better it
was than the 470 (come to think of it, they still are). The Olympic
committee wanted to have a rotating roster of classes in the Olympics so
as not to overly affect the few Olympic classes... spread the wealth,
so to speak. That's why they put in the Tempest and then took it out
again. This policy never caught on.


As you can see the Etchells class has thrived while the Soling class
has died because the rock stars with big budgets drove out the
regulars.

I'm not sure it's all a budget issue, the Etchells is not a cheap boat
to campaign. But the Olympic classes are an arms race, and the attitude
is much more cut-throat than the same guys sailing in non-Olympic classes.

One of the things that used to make me laugh back when I was campaigning
a 470... the clubs that hosted Olympic class regattas were usually very
friendly and hospitable, but the local sailors in the classes were
convinced that they could teach us travelling big heads a thing or
two... in all but very few cases, they got waxed and hated us. The
regattas that were big enough for the Europeans to come were the worst.
I think this hurt the Olympic club classes as much as anything.



....I don't think there is good dinghy for a man
my size with a crew.

What about a Star or a Finn? They are boats that need a lot of beef.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Advanced Question [ 10 points ]
 

I would not call a Star a dinghy.

The Finn is an intersting idea. I'd like to try one.

I'd also like to try something like your Johnson 18. It's sized
between my Sunfish and my Etchells.

DSK wrote

....I don't think there is good dinghy for a man
my size with a crew.

What about a Star or a Finn? They are boats that need a lot of beef.

Advanced Question [ 10 points ]
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:25:07 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

Well you hit the main point I wanted to make. The Soling has a
spade rudder versus the Etchells which has a skeg hung rudder.

I find the handling on the Soling to be exceptional. While the
Etchells handles and steers well, it looses out in a steering
comparision.
Also, an Etchells can't put on the brakes like a Soling, which comes
in handy while docking.


Interesting reading the Etchells saga.
Skip Etchells put the boat up for selection and soundly trounced all
but one boat by huge margins.
IIRC he was knocked back and a new selection series was arranged, the
EUs not happy with an American design.
Again the Etchells wiped the floor with the others but was passed over
again.
By this time Skip had had enough, he packed up and went home leaving
us with a class with more Olympic sailors and world champions in
everything else, giving us one of the hottest fclasses in the world
and without the Olympic committees sticking their noses in.

BTW, I think you're wrong re steering the Etchells, they track
beautifully, are extremely responsive and not as fidgetty as the
Soling.
I do agree with the braking, but they are so easily driven that we can
drop all sails 100 metres or more off the dock and just glide in at a
speed so low it is easily arrested with just one hand..


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I think the Etchells class is a fine class too, albeit an expensive one.

The Etchells rudder is fine for what it is. It is great for keeping speed
up while turning. The Soling is far more manueverable it tight spots. I
used to sail in and around pilings and, I can easily sail one backwards.

Also I've found that when sailing a Soling solo, with my weight aft, and
heeled over and slightly overpowered, using the rudder to counteract the
weather helm would also counteract my weight aft, giving me some life,
and I'd get that boat to surf upwind on a close reach. I nearly passed a
big boat doing this one day, until the wind died and I lost that magic
groove I was in.

The Soling is also slightly easier to singlehand than an Etchells.

I do wish the Etchells had better brakes. You may be able to drop all the
sails and coast in, but I can't when the river is ripping. I should
probably
try to find another place to keep it. If there is no current you are right,
you can scull and Etchells, not as easily as a Soling--both boats are light
enough to be propelled that way.

Bart

Advanced Question [ 10 points ]
 

OzOne wrote
On Thu, 20 May 2004 03:21:23 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

I think the Etchells class is a fine class too, albeit an expensive one.

Yep, to stay in touch with the front runners you can spend quite a
bit.
If you're happy to sit in the pack, costs can be as low as a couple of
thou every couple of years.


Once I get some new sails and then I'll go hunting. That will be my only
major expense. A friend just offered me all his old spinnakers. He just
sold his Etchells and forgot to give the buyer those sails. Maybe I'll
get lucky and get one decent one out of the set.

I've been putting all my money into ECHO so I have little to spare for
HOOT this year. I'm almost ready to paint--just a few areas I want
to fair one more time. Anything I do on HOOT this year will be low
cost like making mast blocks out of an old cutting board I've set aside.

What do you use for a mast butt mover on your Etchells? I need to
come up with something to adjust that at some point.

Bart