Spinnakers...
 

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

...So what are you trying to get at


Can you not read plain English?


I don't think you should question my knowlege or command of English
Doug. Perhaps you should try to think about what you posted and the
context of my simple question before you fly off the handle further.

Cheers

Spinnakers...
 

Navigator wrote:
I don't think you should question my knowlege or command of English
Doug.

Why? You seem unable to understand simple sentences.

... Perhaps you should try to think about what you posted and the
context of my simple question before you fly off the handle further.

I have not flown off the handle, just pointing out that what I posted
was not complex nor difficult to understand, so why don't you grasp it?

DSK

Spinnakers... Navvie really doesn't know
 

OzOne wrote:
So it is....maybe that's why they look so horrible and out of shape.
:-)

Hey, gotta work with what ya got.

FB
DSK

Spinnakers...
 

OzOne wrote:
How long do they stay at their peak?
We throw a new kite on the Etchells every season, we get a couple of
seasons out of them but peak is really only one.

The serious racers buy a new set every season, the sailmakers usually
carry four or five sets around with them. The big regattas have rules
saying you can only have one set of sails (defined as 1 main, 2 jibs, 2
spin) but this is quietly ignored. On the Lightning you can carry two
spinnakers in the boat but it's only rigged with one halyard, most have
only one set of sheets. I have my boat set up with two sets of sheets
for light or heavy, so we can switch easily... never been protested on
that. One jib on board, you have to pick light or heavy bfore leaving
the dock.

IMHO new sails are fastest for about the first five six times out, less
if you go out in a blow. The difference in pointing is noticable. I
ruined a set of Johnson 18 sails at the 1998 Midwinters, picked up a
brand new set from the sailmaker and took them out first time blowing
30+... but they were really fast that day!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Spinnakers...
 

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

I don't think you should question my knowlege or command of English Doug.


Why? You seem unable to understand simple sentences.

... Perhaps you should try to think about what you posted and the
context of my simple question before you fly off the handle further.


I have not flown off the handle, just pointing out that what I posted
was not complex nor difficult to understand, so why don't you grasp it?



Do you know what this symbol - ? - means as in "Are you talking about
a radial cut?" ???

Cheers

Spinnakers...
 

You should near the foot since you won't believe my criticism of how you
are flying it.

Cheers

DSK wrote:



Anybody out there using tell tales on spinnakers?

Spinnakers...
 

Navigator wrote:
You should near the foot since you won't believe my criticism of how you
are flying it.

Why should I (or anyone) believe what you say? You have not posted
anything that is convincing you have ever sailed a boat with a spinnaker.

DSK

Spinnakers... Navvie's language & sailing skills revealed
 

Navigator wrote:
Do you know what this symbol - ? - means as in "Are you talking about
a radial cut?" ???

Do you know what this symbol means - . - as in "If I meant a radial
cut, I'd have said 'radial cut' instead of 'cross cut'. Period.

Very simple English, why can you not understand?

DSK

Spinnakers...
 

S'funny I was sure our Dragon had one and my present boat has two. Of
course you must be right if you say I've never sailed a boat with
spinnaker 'cos you are always right. Next time I get asked to help train
a US racing boat on spinnaker trim I'll just laugh and tell them to try
what you recommend as good trim OK?

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

You should near the foot since you won't believe my criticism of how
you are flying it.


Why should I (or anyone) believe what you say? You have not posted
anything that is convincing you have ever sailed a boat with a spinnaker.

DSK

Spinnakers...
 

Navigator wrote:
S'funny I was sure our Dragon had one and my present boat has two.

Maybe you have some helpful advice for these guys.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/schramm/ww.../shrimping.jpg

DSK

Does Doug really know anything about spinnakers?
 

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

Do you know what this symbol - ? - means as in "Are you talking
about a radial cut?" ???


Do you know what this symbol means - . - as in "If I meant a radial
cut, I'd have said 'radial cut' instead of 'cross cut'. Period.

Very simple English, why can you not understand?



Let me explain. I was being nice to you. I saw a possible slip up on
your part and was giving you the chance to correct yourself if
necessary. In the earlier post you said :

"For running & light air, the old fashioned cross cut is better. It can
be cut with - deeper shape --"

which as far as I know is wrong as that is the main benefit of a radial
head e.g. 'big girls'? So I politely questioned whether you meant that.
Since it seems that you think that cross cuts are deeper and better I
cannot help but wonder how your view (that cross cuts are better) flies
in the face of general knowlege that high performance yachts use radial
cut sails for downwind sailing.

Of course I must be wrong because you are Doug King (who can't own an
expensive radial cut sail but who does have a propellor on all his boats).

Cheers

Yes Doug knows something about spinnakers
 

Navigator wrote:
Let me explain. I was being nice to you.

Oh yes, you're always very nice, Navvie. You don't pay your bets and
you're a liar, but a nice one.


... In the earlier post you said :

"For running & light air, the old fashioned cross cut is better. It can
be cut with - deeper shape --"

which as far as I know is wrong

Ah well, you haven't sailed small one-designs, have you?

Considering that the major racing sailmakers still make cross cuts and
the class champions still use them, maybe you'd better give *them* the
benefit of your vast wisdom

DSK

Spinnakers...
 

It's too late for advice on trim Doug. Maybe offer them a sharp knife
and a spare life jacket to tie onto it?

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

S'funny I was sure our Dragon had one and my present boat has two.


Maybe you have some helpful advice for these guys.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/schramm/ww.../shrimping.jpg

DSK

Doug shows he knows nothing about spinnakers
 

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

Let me explain. I was being nice to you.


Oh yes, you're always very nice, Navvie. You don't pay your bets and
you're a liar, but a nice one.


It's you that won't pay the bet or even agree to terms for payment.
However you prefer to continue the BIG LIE. You really should try to
learn from your mistakes.


... In the earlier post you said :

"For running & light air, the old fashioned cross cut is better. It
can be cut with - deeper shape --"

which as far as I know is wrong


Ah well, you haven't sailed small one-designs, have you?


So you still say it's right even when all the top sail designers say
otherwise. So typically Doug. Deny the truth all you like but even a
novice knows why radial cut sails are selected for high performance and
yet again you show your true colors.

Cheers

Navvie shows what he knows
 

Navigator wrote:
So you still say it's right even when all the top sail designers say
otherwise. So typically Doug.

Yes, it is typical of me to ignore your bluster and go by what the lead
sailmakers are doing and the lead racers are using.

Ask North Sails, maybe they know something about spinnakers. They are
still making cross cuts for a number of classes. But of course, *you*
know much much more than them.



... radial cut sails are selected for high performance

In many cases, yes. In at least some, and ones I have most experience
in, no.


yet again you show your true colors.

Yes I have a colored spinnaker. Is this important to you somehow?

DSK

Spinnakers...
 

"Navigator" wrote in message
...
Lucky windshift.



They aren't on the first leg. Are you suggesting that they had several
"lucky windshifts"?

My personal experience is that the boat in first place has his sails trimmed
correctly. Is it different in NZ?




Regards


Donal
--

Spinnakers...
 

OzOne wrote:

On Thu, 6 May 2004 23:35:52 +0100, "Donal"
scribbled thusly:


"Navigator" wrote in message
...

Lucky windshift.



They aren't on the first leg. Are you suggesting that they had several
"lucky windshifts"?

My personal experience is that the boat in first place has his sails trimmed
correctly. Is it different in NZ?



Just to put a finer point on it,
I have seen many races where a boat will fly to the top mark and round
first either by pure boat speed of that lucky shift only to be
completely swamped when the following fleet consumes her air leaving
her floundering as they cruise on by.


And sometimes they don't get by if the line is near...

Cheers

Spinnakers...
 

Hey Oz, did the French take spinnaker lesson from Doug?

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/schramm/ww...17_Mar_231.jpg

Cheers

Spinnakers...Doug really doesn't know
 

Checking up on Doug's clear assertion (below) I find that Doug is not
correct. North say their fastest spinnaker is a radial and that 2003
Lightning world champions use them.

http://www.northsailsod.com/class/li...lightning.html

"For top performance and durability, we offer the R-2 and the RC-1
spinnakers. Both spinnakers are fill radial with fully glued seams for
smoothness and resistance to snags. Both are built from AirX fabric."

Tell me Doug, why did you say that they were cross cut? Are you confused
or BSing? Are you now going to take my spinnaker advice and get a faster
radial sail?

Cheers

DSK wrote:


Really? That must be why the current North and Sobstad runners on
Lightnings (and a few other one designs I believe) are all cross cut.

Yes Doug knows something about spinnakers
 

DSK wrote:


Considering that the major racing sailmakers still make cross cuts and
the class champions still use them, maybe you'd better give *them* the
benefit of your vast wisdom


Yes they make them, they'll make anything you want. But the world
champions in Lightnings apparently use radial cut. While my wisdom is
not vast, in this case it is certainly in accord with world champions
choice in Lightnings (according to North sails).

Perhaps you would like some more advice on sails from me? I'm only
trying to help you know.

Cheers

Spinnakers...Doug really doesn't know
 

Navigator wrote:
Checking up on Doug's clear assertion (below) I find that Doug is not
correct. North say their fastest spinnaker is a radial and that 2003
Lightning world champions use them.

http://www.northsailsod.com/class/li...lightning.html

"For top performance and durability, we offer the R-2 and the RC-1
spinnakers. Both spinnakers are fill radial with fully glued seams for
smoothness and resistance to snags. Both are built from AirX fabric."

Please quote the part that says specifically which spinnakers the 2003
World (or for that matter the 2003 NA) champs use. In fact it says
specifically that the R-2 and RC-1 are *reaching* spinnakers. You know
the difference between reaching and running, yes?

If you looked further down that same page you find the Bruin and another
cross cut runner.

"The Bruin has long been recognized for the downwind performer that it
is. Slightly flatter in the middle for 1998, the Bruim is much more an
all-around performer with little sacrifice to its proven broad reaching
and running performance."

Gee, you must be wetting your pants thinking that you've *finally* shown
me wrong, for once. Of course, you almost were a man and admitted your
mistake about those big old wooden ships, but now that's all behind you,
eh? Back to the same old bluff & bluster for Navvie!

Fresh Breezes (to them wot kin use 'em)- Doug King

Spinnakers...Doug really doesn't know
 

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

Checking up on Doug's clear assertion (below) I find that Doug is not
correct. North say their fastest spinnaker is a radial and that 2003
Lightning world champions use them.

http://www.northsailsod.com/class/li...lightning.html

"For top performance and durability, we offer the R-2 and the RC-1
spinnakers. Both spinnakers are fill radial with fully glued seams for
smoothness and resistance to snags. Both are built from AirX fabric."



Back to the same old bluff & bluster for Doug King

Spinnakers...
 

Navigator wrote:
Back to the same old bluff & bluster for Doug King

Is it "bluff and bluster" that North builds cross cut spinnakers and
says themselves that they are faster for running and broad reaching?
It's right on their web site, right one the exact page you quoted!
Possibly you missed the bit about "reaching" and "pole a foot off the
forestay." Or maybe you didn't grasp what it means?

DSK

Spinnakers...
 

DSK wrote:

Back to the same old bluff & bluster for Doug King

Spinnakers...
 

Navigator wrote:
DSK wrote:

Back to the same old bluff & bluster for Doug King

Well, let's see:

Navigator wrote:
I was there

Except that you didn't know where you were. And you didn't know what
ship you were talking about. But you were very eager to try and prove
that everybody else was stupid.

Now you're back to spinnakers. On and on and on you go, even quoting a
sailmakers web site, except that it proved you wrong so you had to go
hunting for something else.

Then you combed the Internet looking for race results with my name...
before that, you were threatening to email some naval architects to try
and prove how I didn't know about stability... didn't pan out for you
either...

The list goes on and on. Don't you have anything better to do? Do you
think your department might consider this behavior embarassing?

DSK

Spinnakers...
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Thu, 6 May 2004 23:35:52 +0100, "Donal"
scribbled thusly:


My personal experience is that the boat in first place has his sails
trimmed
correctly. Is it different in NZ?


Just to put a finer point on it,
I have seen many races where a boat will fly to the top mark and round
first either by pure boat speed of that lucky shift only to be
completely swamped when the following fleet consumes her air leaving
her floundering as they cruise on by.


I agree! However, in this case, I believe that Doug went on to win the
race.




Regards


Donal
--