Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

Hello:
This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible. After several go arounds
with my insurance company, I recommended that the owner of the
powerboat file through his insurance company. I recently found out
that his insurance company rejected the claim because he took to long
to file. Anyhow, the guy who runs my marina recently called me to let
me know that the powerboat owner was planning to sue me. I am
currently looking for an attorney to review this situation, but I was
curious if anyone knew who is legally responsible for the damage,
myself or the powerboat owner. I spoke to an attorney today and he
said that I would need a maritime lawyer for this case. As I searched
maritime law today, I could not find any rules and regs that apply to
my case. The inland rules only talk about responsibility while
underway.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
Holder 20
Marmora, NJ

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

Dave, you have a Holder 20? Cool. I teach sailing on Holders
on the lake near my house. Nice little boat, but I like the Cals
better for real wind like in the bay. How do you like it? Assuming
swing keel like the ones I'm used to?

How could the power boater be responsible if your boat
drifted into his? I'm no expert, but I suppose the claim
would be that your lines were inadequate. Not sure if
it would stand up. You better have pictures of the lines
and perhaps some "expert" ready to claim that they are
adequate. I think there's another Dave here who claims
to be an attorney. Maybe he can comment.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hello:
This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible. After several go arounds
with my insurance company, I recommended that the owner of the
powerboat file through his insurance company. I recently found out
that his insurance company rejected the claim because he took to long
to file. Anyhow, the guy who runs my marina recently called me to let
me know that the powerboat owner was planning to sue me. I am
currently looking for an attorney to review this situation, but I was
curious if anyone knew who is legally responsible for the damage,
myself or the powerboat owner. I spoke to an attorney today and he
said that I would need a maritime lawyer for this case. As I searched
maritime law today, I could not find any rules and regs that apply to
my case. The inland rules only talk about responsibility while
underway.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
Holder 20
Marmora, NJ

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

"Dave" wrote
This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible. ......

If your insurer is correct then God is liable and the PB owner should sue
her.

OTOH, if a court rules that you ARE responsible then I'd think your insurer
would have to pay.

Check with your state insurance commission.

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Dave, you have a Holder 20? Cool. I teach sailing on Holders
on the lake near my house. Nice little boat, but I like the Cals
better for real wind like in the bay. How do you like it? Assuming
swing keel like the ones I'm used to?

How could the power boater be responsible if your boat
drifted into his? I'm no expert, but I suppose the claim
would be that your lines were inadequate.


It's not a claim Johnathan. His line were inadequate. Unless the dock
cleats tore off he is responsable.

Joe



Not sure if
it would stand up. You better have pictures of the lines
and perhaps some "expert" ready to claim that they are
adequate. I think there's another Dave here who claims
to be an attorney. Maybe he can comment.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hello:
This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible. After several go arounds
with my insurance company, I recommended that the owner of the
powerboat file through his insurance company. I recently found out
that his insurance company rejected the claim because he took to long
to file. Anyhow, the guy who runs my marina recently called me to let
me know that the powerboat owner was planning to sue me. I am
currently looking for an attorney to review this situation, but I was
curious if anyone knew who is legally responsible for the damage,
myself or the powerboat owner. I spoke to an attorney today and he
said that I would need a maritime lawyer for this case. As I searched
maritime law today, I could not find any rules and regs that apply to
my case. The inland rules only talk about responsibility while
underway.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
Holder 20
Marmora, NJ

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

Well, I said I suppose. There could be other facts that we don't
know about... someone could have cut the lines or retied them
poorly or the boat did get loose but the powerboater did the
damage himself to pump up the claim. Perhaps no line would have
been adequate or reasonable. Suddenly you know for sure? I
doubt it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Dave, you have a Holder 20? Cool. I teach sailing on Holders
on the lake near my house. Nice little boat, but I like the Cals
better for real wind like in the bay. How do you like it? Assuming
swing keel like the ones I'm used to?

How could the power boater be responsible if your boat
drifted into his? I'm no expert, but I suppose the claim
would be that your lines were inadequate.


It's not a claim Johnathan. His line were inadequate. Unless the dock
cleats tore off he is responsable.

Joe



Not sure if
it would stand up. You better have pictures of the lines
and perhaps some "expert" ready to claim that they are
adequate. I think there's another Dave here who claims
to be an attorney. Maybe he can comment.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hello:
This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible. After several go arounds
with my insurance company, I recommended that the owner of the
powerboat file through his insurance company. I recently found out
that his insurance company rejected the claim because he took to long
to file. Anyhow, the guy who runs my marina recently called me to let
me know that the powerboat owner was planning to sue me. I am
currently looking for an attorney to review this situation, but I was
curious if anyone knew who is legally responsible for the damage,
myself or the powerboat owner. I spoke to an attorney today and he
said that I would need a maritime lawyer for this case. As I searched
maritime law today, I could not find any rules and regs that apply to
my case. The inland rules only talk about responsibility while
underway.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
Holder 20
Marmora, NJ

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

I knew there was a f*cking lawyer out there... said nothing with
a lot of words. (Calm down Dave, I'm just kidding)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 20 Apr 2004 18:54:38 -0700, (Dave) said:

Anyhow, the guy who runs my marina recently called me to let
me know that the powerboat owner was planning to sue me. I am
currently looking for an attorney to review this situation, but I was
curious if anyone knew who is legally responsible for the damage,
myself or the powerboat owner. I spoke to an attorney today and he
said that I would need a maritime lawyer for this case. As I searched
maritime law today, I could not find any rules and regs that apply to
my case. The inland rules only talk about responsibility while
underway.

First off, remember that a law suit will be mainly your insurance
carrier's
problem in the first instance. One of the reasons you buy a policy is not
just to pay any liabilities, but to defend you if you're sued. If you're
sued, be sure to notify the insurance company immediately. They may or may
not allow you to use an attorney of your choice to defend.

Second, for $5,000 it's not likely to be brought as an admiralty case.
More
likely a straight state law case for negligence. The issue will be whether
you used reasonable care to secure your vessel so it wouldn't damage other
vessels. I can see a pretty good argument that if a gale is expected,
reasonable care would require you to put on some additional lines, and if
you didn't you (your insurance carrier) may be responsible for the damage.
But again, that's a matter to be dealt with in the first instance by your
insurance carrier and its lawyers.


Dave
S/V Good Fortune
CS27

Who goes duck hunting with Jamie Gorelick?

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

Dave wrote:

This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible. After several go arounds
with my insurance company, I recommended that the owner of the
powerboat file through his insurance company. I recently found out
that his insurance company rejected the claim because he took to long
to file. Anyhow, the guy who runs my marina recently called me to let
me know that the powerboat owner was planning to sue me. I am
currently looking for an attorney to review this situation, but I was
curious if anyone knew who is legally responsible for the damage,
myself or the powerboat owner. I spoke to an attorney today and he
said that I would need a maritime lawyer for this case. As I searched
maritime law today, I could not find any rules and regs that apply to
my case. The inland rules only talk about responsibility while
underway.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I think that usenet is not the best place to seek legal advice. What
you'll get is anecdotal at best, and most likely apochryphal or just
plain delusional.

That said, Dave (the other Dave) seems to have his head screwed on
straght. I'd add that given the cost of litigation, $5000 lawsuits are
not all that common, and that a guy who's lazy enough to miss filing an
insurance claim by the deadline may take awhile before he gets around to
actually filing a lawsuit (i.e. never, but he'll talk a blue streak
about it).

--
//-Walt
//
// Sigs suck. Oh, the irony.

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hello:
This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible

How old were your lines?




Regards


Donal
--

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

Nah, he's just unhinged.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...
On 21 Apr 2004 21:36:20 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:17:23 GMT, said:

Your boat came loose from it's slip, regardless of reason, and hit
someone elses
boat. You are legally liable.

In most areas of the law, if someone is injured, or his property damaged,
without fault on anyone's part, the loss is borne where it fell. I know
this
may seem like a novel concept in a world where any time somebody's
injured
he thinks he's entitled to a pot of gold from somebody, regardless of
fault,
but it's true. I'm not aware of any exceptions where a boat happens to be
an
instrument in the damage.

That said, it's pretty easy to dream up a basis for claiming that a boat
owner whose vessel breaks loose was negligent in some way.



If your boat breaks loose, you didn't secure it properly. If the whole
dock it
was tied to breaks loose, with your boat still tied to it, then you may
have a
defense. None of this is so hard to grasp, unless you are deliberately
trying to
be obtuse.

BB

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

Boats are considered entities. In other words they
are treated like people. So your boat is liable up
to it maximum value. If your boat is worth less
than $5000, as I expect, then you may end up turning
it over to the other boat owner, or selling and
giving him the proceeds.

If the other boat owner can prove you were negligent
in mooring your boat, then perhaps he might be able
to sue you personally. If, for example, you used
mooring lines that were undersized, or failed to
provide chafe protection, where needed

Bart Senior

(Dave) wrote

Hello:
This past september my docklines broke during a gale sending my Holder
20 sailboat into the neighboring powerboat cause about $5000 in damage
to the powerboat. A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.
The claim was rejected because my insurance company said that this
was an act of god and I was not responsible. After several go arounds
with my insurance company, I recommended that the owner of the
powerboat file through his insurance company. I recently found out
that his insurance company rejected the claim because he took to long
to file. Anyhow, the guy who runs my marina recently called me to let
me know that the powerboat owner was planning to sue me. I am
currently looking for an attorney to review this situation, but I was
curious if anyone knew who is legally responsible for the damage,
myself or the powerboat owner. I spoke to an attorney today and he
said that I would need a maritime lawyer for this case. As I searched
maritime law today, I could not find any rules and regs that apply to
my case. The inland rules only talk about responsibility while
underway.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
Holder 20
Marmora, NJ

Legal Liability from Storm Damage
 

A claim was filed through my homeowner's insurance.


This is the number one reason not to insure your vessel with through your
homeowners. You may save money, but you won't get the claim representation.
In fact I knew a person whose boat sunk during a storm and he was denied
coverage because it was "an act of God"

I had a similar situation in which another boat broke loose in a storm and
caused a lot of damage to our boat. Even though it was clearly the other guy's
fault, each insurance company called the storm an "act of God" and paid for the
damage to their owner's boat only. Nobody was sued, and everything was handled
by the insurance company.

Not only that, but the insurance company sent out a surveyor to make sure the
repairs were done correctly. His job was not to find the cheapest way, in fact
the job cost several thousand more after he got done, but to make certain the
boat was seaworthy and a good risk for the insurance company.

You will not get this kind of service through a homeowners policy.

PS If all the damage was is $5,000, let him sue. Let him hire an admiralty
lawyer, etc. When you get summoned, demand arbitration. He won't get much.