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RDF for newbies and NN of KN
The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over
themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. So, let's look at RDF, its accuracy and how it is used. Consider that one is on a boat in a fog with granite ledges nearby just below the water surface. One hears a fog horn or clanging bell somewhere off to the right. The chart shows the source of the sound. You ask the helmsperson to hold the present course as best he can. You face the sound as best you can, listen closely to get the direction and point a magnetic handheld compass at it. Now the boat is pitching up and down in the waves and rolling side to side. Each pitch up, the compass turns one way, each pitch down the compass turns the other. Same with each roll side to side, one way the compass turns one way, the other the other. Now depending on how well a steady course was held and how well you listened/heard the sound and how well you interpreted the compass movement, you have a siting *to* the sound. This you write down. It may or may not be accurate to plus or minus 5 degrees or 10 degrees or even 20 degrees. but you have the reading. Then you do the same for a sound off to the left (hopefully 90 degrees from the first as this gives less uncertainly of position in the end), getting a reading to the other sound, also of the same accuracy. Now, you mark off on the chart the recipical of the first reading from the first sound, makng note of the potential variance of the reading, then mark off the recipical of the second reading again noting the potential variance of that reading, plus you make allowance for the fact the boat *may* have moved (between the wind, the current and the engine the boat may have gone anywhere, including backwards if the current overpowered the engine) between the first and second readings. You are left with an "Area of Probable Position" that might go up to 20 degrees either side of the first siting on one side, up to 20 degrees either side of the second reading, plus maybe a couple hundred yards forward or backward or left or right. THAT -- with minor differences -- is RDF, and one hell of a long ways from "2 degrees" accuracy as claimed by one of the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere. Not exactly good for threading one's way through granite ledges, but if one is far enough away from known granite ledges not all that bad as compared to just bobbing around in the water. Now, before any of the silly gnomes starts screaming "THE DIFFERENCES ARE IMPORTANT!!!!" let's look at the differences between Auditory Direction Finding and using a Radio Compass. First off, your ears can tell the difference between a sound in front of you and a sound behind you. A radio compass can't. Second, because you have two ears set apart your ears are excellent at determining the direction of the sound by listening for its loudest. A radio compass is poor at this, but better at NOT hearing the sound when the antenna is at right angles to the source. Therefore, with a radio compass you have to listen for the weakest sound, not the strongest. radio compasses will usually have an analog meter installed to help the operator find the weakest sound from the signal. In addition, the source points for sound are typically quite close, often only a few hundred yards away. The source points for a radio compass are usually some miles away and can in fact be thousands of miles away (miles is more usual). sound signals are easily heard. radio signals are usually weak enough so that on even the best of radios the operator has to use headphones to hear them at all. a handheld magnetic compass can sense direction without regard to the direction of the boat. a radio compass is first set in place, then the helsman is told to hold a steady course on his magnetic compass (which he may or may not do well, particulary if the boat is pitching and/or rolling, but in any event not likely to be closer than plus or minus 5 degrees), the radio compass operator then lines up the dial on the radio compass with the magnetic direction he believes the boat is going. The radio compass operator then tunes in a station frequency (he has a table of station frequencies for the area) until he has a strong signal in his headphones. He listens to the morse code identifier of the station that he is looking for, gets it, then turns the top dial on the radio compass until the signal is weakest (he may use the analog meter to help him indentify the point at which the signal is weakest). This top dial is about the size of a dinner plate and is marked off in degree (THIS is the reason the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere *claimed* accuracy of two degrees. The dial can be read down to two degrees). the radio compass operator writes down this reading. The radio compass operator tunes in a station (hopefully about 90 degrees) to the other side of the first station, asks the helmsman if he has stayed the course (helmsman says Yes) and proceeds after some time to get a second reading. Radio compass operator now draws the lines on the chart from the two reported radio stations, expanding the "Area of Probable Position" to allow for the likelihood that the helmsman was not entirely accurate holding the course as the radio compass was aligned with the boat's magnetic compass, nor was the helmsman likely to be completely accurate in holding the course was the station readings were made. The radio compass operator also takes into account that the boat was moving between the first and second readings. Radio compass operator also takes into account the whole thing was based on the helmsman's read of *his* magnetic compass AND holding an accurate course long enough to align the radio compass. That's it, folks. THAT is RDF, using a "radio compass" as the equipment was originally called. ----- Now, who the hell would try to thread the granite ledges in a fog with that kind of information? Well, the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere claim they did it all the time and they survived so it has to be accurate "to within 2 degrees". Of course, one of those silly negative gnomes also said he used a paper sextant in the fog to tell him where he was going. Yeah. Paper sextant and radio compass in the fog in the granite ledges. Now, let's sit back and wait for the silly negative gnomes of NN of KN jump all over like Mexican beans on a hot skillet trying to say that "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used...", and so forth. The idgits confused equipment with technique simply because they didn't understand the technique. Lucky *******s they were if they really did blunder through the granite ledges in a fog. Many other people weren't lucky. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
Yup. You're an idiot.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. bs deleted |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
You must have a very empty life, that you don't have anything better to do.
JAXAshby wrote: The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere (snip unread) |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Yup. You're an idiot. The guy is thicker than two short planks, next he'll claim that you denied the existence of gravity and then go on to prove how wrong "YOU" were. Cheers Marty |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
ROFLMAO It was worth the wait.
You need to get out on the water and try out some of the things you've read and heard about, Jax. The first part tells me (actually confirms that which was known) that you have no practical experience with navigation (piloting and running fixes in particular) and in fact are limited to what you've read and heard. The second part confirms you've never used an RDF (again you are paraphrasing what you've read or heard) .... I'll skip the errors. Basically, what you've written is a very, VERY basic description of how a RDF works, with errors in comprehension. Question: What does "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used ...", refer to? otn |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
otnmbrd wrote:
Question: What does "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used ...", refer to? Things are very, very, different in JaxWorld. There is nothing to be gained asking Jax "why" he writes anything. rick |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
Rick wrote: otnmbrd wrote: Question: What does "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used ...", refer to? Things are very, very, different in JaxWorld. There is nothing to be gained asking Jax "why" he writes anything. rick BG This goes without saying, but I'm trying to add to my confirmation of his lack of reading comprehension and knowledge/understanding of the subject .... EG plus, I bet his answer (assuming he can or does answer) will be amusing. otn |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
This is an embarrassment, jaxie. All you've done is demonstrate that you have
no experience with navigation or piloting, or googling. Its a true Tour de Force of stupidity. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
Oh hell, let's have some fun .... comments interspersed.
JAXAshby wrote: The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. As Jeff has said, YOU are the only one threading his way through granite ledges, in fog. The rest of use were making approaches to land, in waters that gave use some room for error when using the subject equipment. (error on your part) So, let's look at RDF, its accuracy and how it is used. Consider that one is on a boat in a fog with granite ledges nearby just below the water surface. Don't know what that has to do with the subject at hand, but, continue. One hears a fog horn or clanging bell somewhere off to the right. The chart shows the source of the sound. You ask the helmsperson to hold the present course as best he can. You face the sound as best you can, listen closely to get the direction and point a magnetic handheld compass at it. Now the boat is pitching up and down in the waves and rolling side to side. Each pitch up, the compass turns one way, each pitch down the compass turns the other. Same with each roll side to side, one way the compass turns one way, the other the other. Here's a good indication of your lack of experience. No navigator, would ever use the sound of a fog horn or bell to get a bearing, other than to say, "It sounds like it's to stbd", "It sounds like it's to port", "it sounds like it's ahead", etc.. There are, generally, two ways to get a bearing on a small boat. Either a hand held compass (don't like them, but they have their place) or some method to either read a magnetic compass bearing or relative bearing of the object. If using the boat's compass, you don't just ask the helmsman to try to steer a steady course, you have him give you a "mark", when on course (not perfect, but narrows the error). Naturally, there is going to NORMALLY be some movement (rolling and pitching) but here is where practice and teamwork come into play. (error on your part) Now depending on how well a steady course was held and how well you listened/heard the sound and how well you interpreted the compass movement, you have a siting *to* the sound. This you write down. It may or may not be accurate to plus or minus 5 degrees or 10 degrees or even 20 degrees. but you have the reading. Hell, I'd say you would be lucky if you got within 30 deg +/-. (BS on your part) Then you do the same for a sound off to the left (hopefully 90 degrees from the first as this gives less uncertainly of position in the end), getting a reading to the other sound, also of the same accuracy. Now, you mark off on the chart the recipical of the first reading from the first sound, makng note of the potential variance of the reading, then mark off the recipical of the second reading again noting the potential variance of that reading, plus you make allowance for the fact the boat *may* have moved (between the wind, the current and the engine the boat may have gone anywhere, including backwards if the current overpowered the engine) between the first and second readings. This is all part of doing a "running fix" .... something you don't seem to know or understand. Thankfully, most boaters have a higher degree of "spatial awareness" than you. At this stage, I'm totally amazed you think that any of this is above a very basic knowledge of navigation. (will call this Error on your part) You are left with an "Area of Probable Position" that might go up to 20 degrees either side of the first siting on one side, up to 20 degrees either side of the second reading, plus maybe a couple hundred yards forward or backward or left or right. You really do need to take a course on navigation. (error on your part) THAT -- with minor differences -- is RDF, and one hell of a long ways from "2 degrees" accuracy as claimed by one of the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere. No, THAT, is STUPID navigation, which coupled with the fact that you consider them closely related in any way, other than the fact that they involve bearings, tells us you have no understanding of that which you speak. (error on your part) Not exactly good for threading one's way through granite ledges, but if one is far enough away from known granite ledges not all that bad as compared to just bobbing around in the water. ewwww, an admission of error about what you have said? Now, before any of the silly gnomes starts screaming "THE DIFFERENCES ARE IMPORTANT!!!!" let's look at the differences between Auditory Direction Finding and using a Radio Compass. "With baited breath" ...... First off, your ears can tell the difference between a sound in front of you and a sound behind you. A radio compass can't. It's why many RDF's incorporate a "sense" antenna, for those who are truly lost. Second, because you have two ears set apart your ears are excellent at determining the direction of the sound by listening for its loudest. A radio compass is poor at this, but better at NOT hearing the sound when the antenna is at right angles to the source. Therefore, with a radio compass you have to listen for the weakest sound, not the strongest. radio compasses will usually have an analog meter installed to help the operator find the weakest sound from the signal. Actually, when listening to the "loudest" sound, the antenna tends to approach that more slowly, so that it's rather difficult to pick out the point of loudest sound, accurately. However, when swinging for the null, the change is more rapid and easily discerned by the human ear, which is why the "null" is used. The addition of the meter, was a nice add on, but usually was used in conjunction. (error on your part) In addition, the source points for sound are typically quite close, often only a few hundred yards away. The source points for a radio compass are usually some miles away and can in fact be thousands of miles away (miles is more usual). Buncha BS. Rarely, would anyone use a RDF signal at thousands of miles ..... too many corrections needed. (error on your part) sound signals are easily heard. radio signals are usually weak enough so that on even the best of radios the operator has to use headphones to hear them at all. More BS. Most of the radio signals, used for marine RDF, where fairly strong. Since the vessels tended to use stations close to their approach, signal strength was rarely an issue, unless you were trying some long distance work. Many times, we used headphones mainly to void other sounds around us, but generally, it wasn't necessary. (error on your part) a handheld magnetic compass can sense direction without regard to the direction of the boat. a radio compass is first set in place, then the helsman is told to hold a steady course on his magnetic compass (which he may or may not do well, particulary if the boat is pitching and/or rolling, but in any event not likely to be closer than plus or minus 5 degrees), the radio compass operator then lines up the dial on the radio compass with the magnetic direction he believes the boat is going. More indication of little experience or first hand knowledge. The RDF was normally mounted someplace below, and aligned with the centerline of the boat. I had a second spot on my hatch cover, since it allowed me to use the bearing circle to take visual bearings. The helmsman is EXPECTED to hold a steady course, but when taking RDF or visual bearings, he would give a "mark" when on course. You're above description is amateur BS. BTW, boats aren't always rocking all over the place, and not all helmsmen are "snake wakes". (error on your part) The radio compass operator then tunes in a station frequency (he has a table of station frequencies for the area) until he has a strong signal in his headphones. He listens to the morse code identifier of the station that he is looking for, gets it, then turns the top dial on the radio compass until the signal is weakest (he may use the analog meter to help him indentify the point at which the signal is weakest). This top dial is about the size of a dinner plate and is marked off in degree (THIS is the reason the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere *claimed* accuracy of two degrees. The dial can be read down to two degrees). the radio compass operator writes down this reading. Depends on the system. Some dials were marked in degrees, so, NO jax, that is not the reason. Accuracy of the system was claimed to be, and I quote from Bowditch "In general, good radio bearings should NOT BE IN ERROR (my emphasis) by MORE (again) than 2 deg. for distances under 150 nautical miles". (error on your part) The radio compass operator tunes in a station (hopefully about 90 degrees) to the other side of the first station, asks the helmsman if he has stayed the course (helmsman says Yes) and proceeds after some time to get a second reading. Wrong again .... have you ever done any navigating except on land? (error on your part) Radio compass operator now draws the lines on the chart from the two reported radio stations, expanding the "Area of Probable Position" to allow for the likelihood that the helmsman was not entirely accurate holding the course as the radio compass was aligned with the boat's magnetic compass, nor was the helmsman likely to be completely accurate in holding the course was the station readings were made. The radio compass operator also takes into account that the boat was moving between the first and second readings. Radio compass operator also takes into account the whole thing was based on the helmsman's read of *his* magnetic compass AND holding an accurate course long enough to align the radio compass. LOL You've never done this, have you? ( lack of knowledge on your part) That's it, folks. THAT is RDF, using a "radio compass" as the equipment was originally called. ----- Now, who the hell would try to thread the granite ledges in a fog with that kind of information? I might try it, if I had some people on board who could steer, and a good calibrated RDF, and some good stations to use (not likely nowadays), and I had to get to port .... but, by then, I'd probably be using some other form of navigation, if available, or would have headed to sea till things cleared, or anchored. Well, the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere claim they did it all the time and they survived so it has to be accurate "to within 2 degrees". Of course, one of those silly negative gnomes also said he used a paper sextant in the fog to tell him where he was going. Yeah. Paper sextant and radio compass in the fog in the granite ledges. G You DO have a serious reading comprehension problem, don't you. otn Now, let's sit back and wait for the silly negative gnomes of NN of KN jump all over like Mexican beans on a hot skillet trying to say that "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used...", and so forth. The idgits confused equipment with technique simply because they didn't understand the technique. Lucky *******s they were if they really did blunder through the granite ledges in a fog. Many other people weren't lucky. Seems, that unlike you, we understood the technique AND equipment to a far greater degree, since your dissertation was full of errors in technique as well as equipment. otn .... had a bunch of spare time whilst the Lobsta were cookin..... |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
there you go, Folks. One of the Numb-Nutted gNomes of kNighted Nowhere chasing
his tail to state that while the RDF **equipment** is aligned with the shipboard magnetic compass, it really, really, really is more accurate. what a dumbsquat. notice how N-NN of NN didn't understand how bearings are taken but tells us how bearings are taken. yuk. patooie. Oh hell, let's have some fun .... comments interspersed. JAXAshby wrote: The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. As Jeff has said, YOU are the only one threading his way through granite ledges, in fog. The rest of use were making approaches to land, in waters that gave use some room for error when using the subject equipment. (error on your part) So, let's look at RDF, its accuracy and how it is used. Consider that one is on a boat in a fog with granite ledges nearby just below the water surface. Don't know what that has to do with the subject at hand, but, continue. One hears a fog horn or clanging bell somewhere off to the right. The chart shows the source of the sound. You ask the helmsperson to hold the present course as best he can. You face the sound as best you can, listen closely to get the direction and point a magnetic handheld compass at it. Now the boat is pitching up and down in the waves and rolling side to side. Each pitch up, the compass turns one way, each pitch down the compass turns the other. Same with each roll side to side, one way the compass turns one way, the other the other. Here's a good indication of your lack of experience. No navigator, would ever use the sound of a fog horn or bell to get a bearing, other than to say, "It sounds like it's to stbd", "It sounds like it's to port", "it sounds like it's ahead", etc.. There are, generally, two ways to get a bearing on a small boat. Either a hand held compass (don't like them, but they have their place) or some method to either read a magnetic compass bearing or relative bearing of the object. If using the boat's compass, you don't just ask the helmsman to try to steer a steady course, you have him give you a "mark", when on course (not perfect, but narrows the error). Naturally, there is going to NORMALLY be some movement (rolling and pitching) but here is where practice and teamwork come into play. (error on your part) Now depending on how well a steady course was held and how well you listened/heard the sound and how well you interpreted the compass movement, you have a siting *to* the sound. This you write down. It may or may not be accurate to plus or minus 5 degrees or 10 degrees or even 20 degrees. but you have the reading. Hell, I'd say you would be lucky if you got within 30 deg +/-. (BS on your part) Then you do the same for a sound off to the left (hopefully 90 degrees from the first as this gives less uncertainly of position in the end), getting a reading to the other sound, also of the same accuracy. Now, you mark off on the chart the recipical of the first reading from the first sound, makng note of the potential variance of the reading, then mark off the recipical of the second reading again noting the potential variance of that reading, plus you make allowance for the fact the boat *may* have moved (between the wind, the current and the engine the boat may have gone anywhere, including backwards if the current overpowered the engine) between the first and second readings. This is all part of doing a "running fix" .... something you don't seem to know or understand. Thankfully, most boaters have a higher degree of "spatial awareness" than you. At this stage, I'm totally amazed you think that any of this is above a very basic knowledge of navigation. (will call this Error on your part) You are left with an "Area of Probable Position" that might go up to 20 degrees either side of the first siting on one side, up to 20 degrees either side of the second reading, plus maybe a couple hundred yards forward or backward or left or right. You really do need to take a course on navigation. (error on your part) THAT -- with minor differences -- is RDF, and one hell of a long ways from "2 degrees" accuracy as claimed by one of the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere. No, THAT, is STUPID navigation, which coupled with the fact that you consider them closely related in any way, other than the fact that they involve bearings, tells us you have no understanding of that which you speak. (error on your part) Not exactly good for threading one's way through granite ledges, but if one is far enough away from known granite ledges not all that bad as compared to just bobbing around in the water. ewwww, an admission of error about what you have said? Now, before any of the silly gnomes starts screaming "THE DIFFERENCES ARE IMPORTANT!!!!" let's look at the differences between Auditory Direction Finding and using a Radio Compass. "With baited breath" ...... First off, your ears can tell the difference between a sound in front of you and a sound behind you. A radio compass can't. It's why many RDF's incorporate a "sense" antenna, for those who are truly lost. Second, because you have two ears set apart your ears are excellent at determining the direction of the sound by listening for its loudest. A radio compass is poor at this, but better at NOT hearing the sound when the antenna is at right angles to the source. Therefore, with a radio compass you have to listen for the weakest sound, not the strongest. radio compasses will usually have an analog meter installed to help the operator find the weakest sound from the signal. Actually, when listening to the "loudest" sound, the antenna tends to approach that more slowly, so that it's rather difficult to pick out the point of loudest sound, accurately. However, when swinging for the null, the change is more rapid and easily discerned by the human ear, which is why the "null" is used. The addition of the meter, was a nice add on, but usually was used in conjunction. (error on your part) In addition, the source points for sound are typically quite close, often only a few hundred yards away. The source points for a radio compass are usually some miles away and can in fact be thousands of miles away (miles is more usual). Buncha BS. Rarely, would anyone use a RDF signal at thousands of miles .... too many corrections needed. (error on your part) sound signals are easily heard. radio signals are usually weak enough so that on even the best of radios the operator has to use headphones to hear them at all. More BS. Most of the radio signals, used for marine RDF, where fairly strong. Since the vessels tended to use stations close to their approach, signal strength was rarely an issue, unless you were trying some long distance work. Many times, we used headphones mainly to void other sounds around us, but generally, it wasn't necessary. (error on your part) a handheld magnetic compass can sense direction without regard to the direction of the boat. a radio compass is first set in place, then the helsman is told to hold a steady course on his magnetic compass (which he may or may not do well, particulary if the boat is pitching and/or rolling, but in any event not likely to be closer than plus or minus 5 degrees), the radio compass operator then lines up the dial on the radio compass with the magnetic direction he believes the boat is going. More indication of little experience or first hand knowledge. The RDF was normally mounted someplace below, and aligned with the centerline of the boat. I had a second spot on my hatch cover, since it allowed me to use the bearing circle to take visual bearings. The helmsman is EXPECTED to hold a steady course, but when taking RDF or visual bearings, he would give a "mark" when on course. You're above description is amateur BS. BTW, boats aren't always rocking all over the place, and not all helmsmen are "snake wakes". (error on your part) The radio compass operator then tunes in a station frequency (he has a table of station frequencies for the area) until he has a strong signal in his headphones. He listens to the morse code identifier of the station that he is looking for, gets it, then turns the top dial on the radio compass until the signal is weakest (he may use the analog meter to help him indentify the point at which the signal is weakest). This top dial is about the size of a dinner plate and is marked off in degree (THIS is the reason the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere *claimed* accuracy of two degrees. The dial can be read down to two degrees). the radio compass operator writes down this reading. Depends on the system. Some dials were marked in degrees, so, NO jax, that is not the reason. Accuracy of the system was claimed to be, and I quote from Bowditch "In general, good radio bearings should NOT BE IN ERROR (my emphasis) by MORE (again) than 2 deg. for distances under 150 nautical miles". (error on your part) The radio compass operator tunes in a station (hopefully about 90 degrees) to the other side of the first station, asks the helmsman if he has stayed the course (helmsman says Yes) and proceeds after some time to get a second reading. Wrong again .... have you ever done any navigating except on land? (error on your part) Radio compass operator now draws the lines on the chart from the two reported radio stations, expanding the "Area of Probable Position" to allow for the likelihood that the helmsman was not entirely accurate holding the course as the radio compass was aligned with the boat's magnetic compass, nor was the helmsman likely to be completely accurate in holding the course was the station readings were made. The radio compass operator also takes into account that the boat was moving between the first and second readings. Radio compass operator also takes into account the whole thing was based on the helmsman's read of *his* magnetic compass AND holding an accurate course long enough to align the radio compass. LOL You've never done this, have you? ( lack of knowledge on your part) That's it, folks. THAT is RDF, using a "radio compass" as the equipment was originally called. ----- Now, who the hell would try to thread the granite ledges in a fog with that kind of information? I might try it, if I had some people on board who could steer, and a good calibrated RDF, and some good stations to use (not likely nowadays), and I had to get to port .... but, by then, I'd probably be using some other form of navigation, if available, or would have headed to sea till things cleared, or anchored. Well, the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere claim they did it all the time and they survived so it has to be accurate "to within 2 degrees". Of course, one of those silly negative gnomes also said he used a paper sextant in the fog to tell him where he was going. Yeah. Paper sextant and radio compass in the fog in the granite ledges. G You DO have a serious reading comprehension problem, don't you. otn Now, let's sit back and wait for the silly negative gnomes of NN of KN jump all over like Mexican beans on a hot skillet trying to say that "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used...", and so forth. The idgits confused equipment with technique simply because they didn't understand the technique. Lucky *******s they were if they really did blunder through the granite ledges in a fog. Many other people weren't lucky. Seems, that unlike you, we understood the technique AND equipment to a far greater degree, since your dissertation was full of errors in technique as well as equipment. otn .... had a bunch of spare time whilst the Lobsta were cookin..... |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
Whoa .... off the wall.
Jax, I apologize. I was under the impression you were an inept, inexperienced amateur with little or no knowledge. From this response to my post, I can see you have some more serious mental problems which you need to get a handle on, so I'm going to do you a favor ..... PLONK. otn JAXAshby wrote: there you go, Folks. One of the Numb-Nutted gNomes of kNighted Nowhere chasing his tail to state that while the RDF **equipment** is aligned with the shipboard magnetic compass, it really, really, really is more accurate. what a dumbsquat. notice how N-NN of NN didn't understand how bearings are taken but tells us how bearings are taken. yuk. patooie. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
You have shown what you know about RDF and it aint much, and it aint
accurate. Modern directional antennas are much more accurate than 2 degrees, without electral enhancement , other wise they would not be certified for their use in aircraft.Comparing sound waves in the fog with RDF is ludicrous. calling them radio-compasses shows dated and obsolete information and understanding. Bearing accuracy of +\- 1 degree is supported here http://www.servo.com/2100.htm, check it out. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. So, let's look at RDF, its accuracy and how it is used. Consider that one is on a boat in a fog with granite ledges nearby just below the water surface. One hears a fog horn or clanging bell somewhere off to the right. The chart shows the source of the sound. You ask the helmsperson to hold the present course as best he can. You face the sound as best you can, listen closely to get the direction and point a magnetic handheld compass at it. Now the boat is pitching up and down in the waves and rolling side to side. Each pitch up, the compass turns one way, each pitch down the compass turns the other. Same with each roll side to side, one way the compass turns one way, the other the other. Now depending on how well a steady course was held and how well you listened/heard the sound and how well you interpreted the compass movement, you have a siting *to* the sound. This you write down. It may or may not be accurate to plus or minus 5 degrees or 10 degrees or even 20 degrees. but you have the reading. Then you do the same for a sound off to the left (hopefully 90 degrees from the first as this gives less uncertainly of position in the end), getting a reading to the other sound, also of the same accuracy. Now, you mark off on the chart the recipical of the first reading from the first sound, makng note of the potential variance of the reading, then mark off the recipical of the second reading again noting the potential variance of that reading, plus you make allowance for the fact the boat *may* have moved (between the wind, the current and the engine the boat may have gone anywhere, including backwards if the current overpowered the engine) between the first and second readings. You are left with an "Area of Probable Position" that might go up to 20 degrees either side of the first siting on one side, up to 20 degrees either side of the second reading, plus maybe a couple hundred yards forward or backward or left or right. THAT -- with minor differences -- is RDF, and one hell of a long ways from "2 degrees" accuracy as claimed by one of the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere. Not exactly good for threading one's way through granite ledges, but if one is far enough away from known granite ledges not all that bad as compared to just bobbing around in the water. Now, before any of the silly gnomes starts screaming "THE DIFFERENCES ARE IMPORTANT!!!!" let's look at the differences between Auditory Direction Finding and using a Radio Compass. First off, your ears can tell the difference between a sound in front of you and a sound behind you. A radio compass can't. Second, because you have two ears set apart your ears are excellent at determining the direction of the sound by listening for its loudest. A radio compass is poor at this, but better at NOT hearing the sound when the antenna is at right angles to the source. Therefore, with a radio compass you have to listen for the weakest sound, not the strongest. radio compasses will usually have an analog meter installed to help the operator find the weakest sound from the signal. In addition, the source points for sound are typically quite close, often only a few hundred yards away. The source points for a radio compass are usually some miles away and can in fact be thousands of miles away (miles is more usual). sound signals are easily heard. radio signals are usually weak enough so that on even the best of radios the operator has to use headphones to hear them at all. a handheld magnetic compass can sense direction without regard to the direction of the boat. a radio compass is first set in place, then the helsman is told to hold a steady course on his magnetic compass (which he may or may not do well, particulary if the boat is pitching and/or rolling, but in any event not likely to be closer than plus or minus 5 degrees), the radio compass operator then lines up the dial on the radio compass with the magnetic direction he believes the boat is going. The radio compass operator then tunes in a station frequency (he has a table of station frequencies for the area) until he has a strong signal in his headphones. He listens to the morse code identifier of the station that he is looking for, gets it, then turns the top dial on the radio compass until the signal is weakest (he may use the analog meter to help him indentify the point at which the signal is weakest). This top dial is about the size of a dinner plate and is marked off in degree (THIS is the reason the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere *claimed* accuracy of two degrees. The dial can be read down to two degrees). the radio compass operator writes down this reading. The radio compass operator tunes in a station (hopefully about 90 degrees) to the other side of the first station, asks the helmsman if he has stayed the course (helmsman says Yes) and proceeds after some time to get a second reading. Radio compass operator now draws the lines on the chart from the two reported radio stations, expanding the "Area of Probable Position" to allow for the likelihood that the helmsman was not entirely accurate holding the course as the radio compass was aligned with the boat's magnetic compass, nor was the helmsman likely to be completely accurate in holding the course was the station readings were made. The radio compass operator also takes into account that the boat was moving between the first and second readings. Radio compass operator also takes into account the whole thing was based on the helmsman's read of *his* magnetic compass AND holding an accurate course long enough to align the radio compass. That's it, folks. THAT is RDF, using a "radio compass" as the equipment was originally called. ----- Now, who the hell would try to thread the granite ledges in a fog with that kind of information? Well, the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere claim they did it all the time and they survived so it has to be accurate "to within 2 degrees". Of course, one of those silly negative gnomes also said he used a paper sextant in the fog to tell him where he was going. Yeah. Paper sextant and radio compass in the fog in the granite ledges. Now, let's sit back and wait for the silly negative gnomes of NN of KN jump all over like Mexican beans on a hot skillet trying to say that "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used...", and so forth. The idgits confused equipment with technique simply because they didn't understand the technique. Lucky *******s they were if they really did blunder through the granite ledges in a fog. Many other people weren't lucky. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
still, over the nee, *you* have failed to offer an explanation as to how RDF
works, AND how RDF aligned with a mag compass can be more accurate than it is. duh. Whoa .... off the wall. Jax, I apologize. I was under the impression you were an inept, inexperienced amateur with little or no knowledge. From this response to my post, I can see you have some more serious mental problems which you need to get a handle on, so I'm going to do you a favor ..... PLONK. otn JAXAshby wrote: there you go, Folks. One of the Numb-Nutted gNomes of kNighted Nowhere chasing his tail to state that while the RDF **equipment** is aligned with the shipboard magnetic compass, it really, really, really is more accurate. what a dumbsquat. notice how N-NN of NN didn't understand how bearings are taken but tells us how bearings are taken. yuk. patooie. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
what a dumb squat you are. go back to study hall.
You have shown what you know about RDF and it aint much, and it aint accurate. Modern directional antennas are much more accurate than 2 degrees, without electral enhancement , other wise they would not be certified for their use in aircraft.Comparing sound waves in the fog with RDF is ludicrous. calling them radio-compasses shows dated and obsolete information and understanding. Bearing accuracy of +\- 1 degree is supported here http://www.servo.com/2100.htm, check it out. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. So, let's look at RDF, its accuracy and how it is used. Consider that one is on a boat in a fog with granite ledges nearby just below the water surface. One hears a fog horn or clanging bell somewhere off to the right. The chart shows the source of the sound. You ask the helmsperson to hold the present course as best he can. You face the sound as best you can, listen closely to get the direction and point a magnetic handheld compass at it. Now the boat is pitching up and down in the waves and rolling side to side. Each pitch up, the compass turns one way, each pitch down the compass turns the other. Same with each roll side to side, one way the compass turns one way, the other the other. Now depending on how well a steady course was held and how well you listened/heard the sound and how well you interpreted the compass movement, you have a siting *to* the sound. This you write down. It may or may not be accurate to plus or minus 5 degrees or 10 degrees or even 20 degrees. but you have the reading. Then you do the same for a sound off to the left (hopefully 90 degrees from the first as this gives less uncertainly of position in the end), getting a reading to the other sound, also of the same accuracy. Now, you mark off on the chart the recipical of the first reading from the first sound, makng note of the potential variance of the reading, then mark off the recipical of the second reading again noting the potential variance of that reading, plus you make allowance for the fact the boat *may* have moved (between the wind, the current and the engine the boat may have gone anywhere, including backwards if the current overpowered the engine) between the first and second readings. You are left with an "Area of Probable Position" that might go up to 20 degrees either side of the first siting on one side, up to 20 degrees either side of the second reading, plus maybe a couple hundred yards forward or backward or left or right. THAT -- with minor differences -- is RDF, and one hell of a long ways from "2 degrees" accuracy as claimed by one of the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere. Not exactly good for threading one's way through granite ledges, but if one is far enough away from known granite ledges not all that bad as compared to just bobbing around in the water. Now, before any of the silly gnomes starts screaming "THE DIFFERENCES ARE IMPORTANT!!!!" let's look at the differences between Auditory Direction Finding and using a Radio Compass. First off, your ears can tell the difference between a sound in front of you and a sound behind you. A radio compass can't. Second, because you have two ears set apart your ears are excellent at determining the direction of the sound by listening for its loudest. A radio compass is poor at this, but better at NOT hearing the sound when the antenna is at right angles to the source. Therefore, with a radio compass you have to listen for the weakest sound, not the strongest. radio compasses will usually have an analog meter installed to help the operator find the weakest sound from the signal. In addition, the source points for sound are typically quite close, often only a few hundred yards away. The source points for a radio compass are usually some miles away and can in fact be thousands of miles away (miles is more usual). sound signals are easily heard. radio signals are usually weak enough so that on even the best of radios the operator has to use headphones to hear them at all. a handheld magnetic compass can sense direction without regard to the direction of the boat. a radio compass is first set in place, then the helsman is told to hold a steady course on his magnetic compass (which he may or may not do well, particulary if the boat is pitching and/or rolling, but in any event not likely to be closer than plus or minus 5 degrees), the radio compass operator then lines up the dial on the radio compass with the magnetic direction he believes the boat is going. The radio compass operator then tunes in a station frequency (he has a table of station frequencies for the area) until he has a strong signal in his headphones. He listens to the morse code identifier of the station that he is looking for, gets it, then turns the top dial on the radio compass until the signal is weakest (he may use the analog meter to help him indentify the point at which the signal is weakest). This top dial is about the size of a dinner plate and is marked off in degree (THIS is the reason the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere *claimed* accuracy of two degrees. The dial can be read down to two degrees). the radio compass operator writes down this reading. The radio compass operator tunes in a station (hopefully about 90 degrees) to the other side of the first station, asks the helmsman if he has stayed the course (helmsman says Yes) and proceeds after some time to get a second reading. Radio compass operator now draws the lines on the chart from the two reported radio stations, expanding the "Area of Probable Position" to allow for the likelihood that the helmsman was not entirely accurate holding the course as the radio compass was aligned with the boat's magnetic compass, nor was the helmsman likely to be completely accurate in holding the course was the station readings were made. The radio compass operator also takes into account that the boat was moving between the first and second readings. Radio compass operator also takes into account the whole thing was based on the helmsman's read of *his* magnetic compass AND holding an accurate course long enough to align the radio compass. That's it, folks. THAT is RDF, using a "radio compass" as the equipment was originally called. ----- Now, who the hell would try to thread the granite ledges in a fog with that kind of information? Well, the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere claim they did it all the time and they survived so it has to be accurate "to within 2 degrees". Of course, one of those silly negative gnomes also said he used a paper sextant in the fog to tell him where he was going. Yeah. Paper sextant and radio compass in the fog in the granite ledges. Now, let's sit back and wait for the silly negative gnomes of NN of KN jump all over like Mexican beans on a hot skillet trying to say that "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used...", and so forth. The idgits confused equipment with technique simply because they didn't understand the technique. Lucky *******s they were if they really did blunder through the granite ledges in a fog. Many other people weren't lucky. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
Look sonny, I got out of study hall a few years ago. While I was there I
learned a bit about those who know little and try to confuse us with B.S. You my friend meet all the criteria, as young as you may be. If you had years and wisdom, you would offer substance rather than wisecracks, but are unable to carry coherent argument with out resorting to said cracks. You are a minor pest and should be gone. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... what a dumb squat you are. go back to study hall. You have shown what you know about RDF and it aint much, and it aint accurate. Modern directional antennas are much more accurate than 2 degrees, without electral enhancement , other wise they would not be certified for their use in aircraft.Comparing sound waves in the fog with RDF is ludicrous. calling them radio-compasses shows dated and obsolete information and understanding. Bearing accuracy of +\- 1 degree is supported here http://www.servo.com/2100.htm, check it out. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. So, let's look at RDF, its accuracy and how it is used. Consider that one is on a boat in a fog with granite ledges nearby just below the water surface. One hears a fog horn or clanging bell somewhere off to the right. The chart shows the source of the sound. You ask the helmsperson to hold the present course as best he can. You face the sound as best you can, listen closely to get the direction and point a magnetic handheld compass at it. Now the boat is pitching up and down in the waves and rolling side to side. Each pitch up, the compass turns one way, each pitch down the compass turns the other. Same with each roll side to side, one way the compass turns one way, the other the other. Now depending on how well a steady course was held and how well you listened/heard the sound and how well you interpreted the compass movement, you have a siting *to* the sound. This you write down. It may or may not be accurate to plus or minus 5 degrees or 10 degrees or even 20 degrees. but you have the reading. Then you do the same for a sound off to the left (hopefully 90 degrees from the first as this gives less uncertainly of position in the end), getting a reading to the other sound, also of the same accuracy. Now, you mark off on the chart the recipical of the first reading from the first sound, makng note of the potential variance of the reading, then mark off the recipical of the second reading again noting the potential variance of that reading, plus you make allowance for the fact the boat *may* have moved (between the wind, the current and the engine the boat may have gone anywhere, including backwards if the current overpowered the engine) between the first and second readings. You are left with an "Area of Probable Position" that might go up to 20 degrees either side of the first siting on one side, up to 20 degrees either side of the second reading, plus maybe a couple hundred yards forward or backward or left or right. THAT -- with minor differences -- is RDF, and one hell of a long ways from "2 degrees" accuracy as claimed by one of the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere. Not exactly good for threading one's way through granite ledges, but if one is far enough away from known granite ledges not all that bad as compared to just bobbing around in the water. Now, before any of the silly gnomes starts screaming "THE DIFFERENCES ARE IMPORTANT!!!!" let's look at the differences between Auditory Direction Finding and using a Radio Compass. First off, your ears can tell the difference between a sound in front of you and a sound behind you. A radio compass can't. Second, because you have two ears set apart your ears are excellent at determining the direction of the sound by listening for its loudest. A radio compass is poor at this, but better at NOT hearing the sound when the antenna is at right angles to the source. Therefore, with a radio compass you have to listen for the weakest sound, not the strongest. radio compasses will usually have an analog meter installed to help the operator find the weakest sound from the signal. In addition, the source points for sound are typically quite close, often only a few hundred yards away. The source points for a radio compass are usually some miles away and can in fact be thousands of miles away (miles is more usual). sound signals are easily heard. radio signals are usually weak enough so that on even the best of radios the operator has to use headphones to hear them at all. a handheld magnetic compass can sense direction without regard to the direction of the boat. a radio compass is first set in place, then the helsman is told to hold a steady course on his magnetic compass (which he may or may not do well, particulary if the boat is pitching and/or rolling, but in any event not likely to be closer than plus or minus 5 degrees), the radio compass operator then lines up the dial on the radio compass with the magnetic direction he believes the boat is going. The radio compass operator then tunes in a station frequency (he has a table of station frequencies for the area) until he has a strong signal in his headphones. He listens to the morse code identifier of the station that he is looking for, gets it, then turns the top dial on the radio compass until the signal is weakest (he may use the analog meter to help him indentify the point at which the signal is weakest). This top dial is about the size of a dinner plate and is marked off in degree (THIS is the reason the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere *claimed* accuracy of two degrees. The dial can be read down to two degrees). the radio compass operator writes down this reading. The radio compass operator tunes in a station (hopefully about 90 degrees) to the other side of the first station, asks the helmsman if he has stayed the course (helmsman says Yes) and proceeds after some time to get a second reading. Radio compass operator now draws the lines on the chart from the two reported radio stations, expanding the "Area of Probable Position" to allow for the likelihood that the helmsman was not entirely accurate holding the course as the radio compass was aligned with the boat's magnetic compass, nor was the helmsman likely to be completely accurate in holding the course was the station readings were made. The radio compass operator also takes into account that the boat was moving between the first and second readings. Radio compass operator also takes into account the whole thing was based on the helmsman's read of *his* magnetic compass AND holding an accurate course long enough to align the radio compass. That's it, folks. THAT is RDF, using a "radio compass" as the equipment was originally called. ----- Now, who the hell would try to thread the granite ledges in a fog with that kind of information? Well, the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere claim they did it all the time and they survived so it has to be accurate "to within 2 degrees". Of course, one of those silly negative gnomes also said he used a paper sextant in the fog to tell him where he was going. Yeah. Paper sextant and radio compass in the fog in the granite ledges. Now, let's sit back and wait for the silly negative gnomes of NN of KN jump all over like Mexican beans on a hot skillet trying to say that "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used...", and so forth. The idgits confused equipment with technique simply because they didn't understand the technique. Lucky *******s they were if they really did blunder through the granite ledges in a fog. Many other people weren't lucky. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
The Carrolls wrote:
Look sonny, I got out of study hall a few years ago. While I was there I learned a bit about those who know little and try to confuse us with B.S. You my friend meet all the criteria, as young as you may be. If you had years and wisdom, you would offer substance rather than wisecracks, but are unable to carry coherent argument with out resorting to said cracks. You are a minor pest and should be gone. The truth is that Jax is not a young fool, he is an adult idiot. He has years that have brought him not wisdom but only the disturbances you reflected in his incoherent rants and bizarre essays. Jax's latest revival will probably be a short lived, if extravagant, display of the course of a mental illness that drugs no longer control. We might hasten his demise if, rather than respond to his posts, we only post - about - him. Without a "straight man" (no pun intended) Jax is less than a minor pest and will soon implode. Rick |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
carrol tells us that he is sooooooooooo confused.
sorry about that, dude. you should have paid attention when you actually did go to school back in the woodrow wilson days. The English language would probably not be sooooooooooooo confusing to you. dude, the RDF explanation was accurate. too bad you couldn't understand it. Look sonny, I got out of study hall a few years ago. While I was there I learned a bit about those who know little and try to confuse us with B.S. You my friend meet all the criteria, as young as you may be. If you had years and wisdom, you would offer substance rather than wisecracks, but are unable to carry coherent argument with out resorting to said cracks. You are a minor pest and should be gone. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... what a dumb squat you are. go back to study hall. You have shown what you know about RDF and it aint much, and it aint accurate. Modern directional antennas are much more accurate than 2 degrees, without electral enhancement , other wise they would not be certified for their use in aircraft.Comparing sound waves in the fog with RDF is ludicrous. calling them radio-compasses shows dated and obsolete information and understanding. Bearing accuracy of +\- 1 degree is supported here http://www.servo.com/2100.htm, check it out. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... The Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere went all aground falling over themselves making wild claims about accuracy of something they knew nothing about. Silly negative gnomes, they confused equipment with technique, even as they talk about threading their way through granite ledges along a fog bound Maine coast. So, let's look at RDF, its accuracy and how it is used. Consider that one is on a boat in a fog with granite ledges nearby just below the water surface. One hears a fog horn or clanging bell somewhere off to the right. The chart shows the source of the sound. You ask the helmsperson to hold the present course as best he can. You face the sound as best you can, listen closely to get the direction and point a magnetic handheld compass at it. Now the boat is pitching up and down in the waves and rolling side to side. Each pitch up, the compass turns one way, each pitch down the compass turns the other. Same with each roll side to side, one way the compass turns one way, the other the other. Now depending on how well a steady course was held and how well you listened/heard the sound and how well you interpreted the compass movement, you have a siting *to* the sound. This you write down. It may or may not be accurate to plus or minus 5 degrees or 10 degrees or even 20 degrees. but you have the reading. Then you do the same for a sound off to the left (hopefully 90 degrees from the first as this gives less uncertainly of position in the end), getting a reading to the other sound, also of the same accuracy. Now, you mark off on the chart the recipical of the first reading from the first sound, makng note of the potential variance of the reading, then mark off the recipical of the second reading again noting the potential variance of that reading, plus you make allowance for the fact the boat *may* have moved (between the wind, the current and the engine the boat may have gone anywhere, including backwards if the current overpowered the engine) between the first and second readings. You are left with an "Area of Probable Position" that might go up to 20 degrees either side of the first siting on one side, up to 20 degrees either side of the second reading, plus maybe a couple hundred yards forward or backward or left or right. THAT -- with minor differences -- is RDF, and one hell of a long ways from "2 degrees" accuracy as claimed by one of the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere. Not exactly good for threading one's way through granite ledges, but if one is far enough away from known granite ledges not all that bad as compared to just bobbing around in the water. Now, before any of the silly gnomes starts screaming "THE DIFFERENCES ARE IMPORTANT!!!!" let's look at the differences between Auditory Direction Finding and using a Radio Compass. First off, your ears can tell the difference between a sound in front of you and a sound behind you. A radio compass can't. Second, because you have two ears set apart your ears are excellent at determining the direction of the sound by listening for its loudest. A radio compass is poor at this, but better at NOT hearing the sound when the antenna is at right angles to the source. Therefore, with a radio compass you have to listen for the weakest sound, not the strongest. radio compasses will usually have an analog meter installed to help the operator find the weakest sound from the signal. In addition, the source points for sound are typically quite close, often only a few hundred yards away. The source points for a radio compass are usually some miles away and can in fact be thousands of miles away (miles is more usual). sound signals are easily heard. radio signals are usually weak enough so that on even the best of radios the operator has to use headphones to hear them at all. a handheld magnetic compass can sense direction without regard to the direction of the boat. a radio compass is first set in place, then the helsman is told to hold a steady course on his magnetic compass (which he may or may not do well, particulary if the boat is pitching and/or rolling, but in any event not likely to be closer than plus or minus 5 degrees), the radio compass operator then lines up the dial on the radio compass with the magnetic direction he believes the boat is going. The radio compass operator then tunes in a station frequency (he has a table of station frequencies for the area) until he has a strong signal in his headphones. He listens to the morse code identifier of the station that he is looking for, gets it, then turns the top dial on the radio compass until the signal is weakest (he may use the analog meter to help him indentify the point at which the signal is weakest). This top dial is about the size of a dinner plate and is marked off in degree (THIS is the reason the silly negative gnomes of the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere *claimed* accuracy of two degrees. The dial can be read down to two degrees). the radio compass operator writes down this reading. The radio compass operator tunes in a station (hopefully about 90 degrees) to the other side of the first station, asks the helmsman if he has stayed the course (helmsman says Yes) and proceeds after some time to get a second reading. Radio compass operator now draws the lines on the chart from the two reported radio stations, expanding the "Area of Probable Position" to allow for the likelihood that the helmsman was not entirely accurate holding the course as the radio compass was aligned with the boat's magnetic compass, nor was the helmsman likely to be completely accurate in holding the course was the station readings were made. The radio compass operator also takes into account that the boat was moving between the first and second readings. Radio compass operator also takes into account the whole thing was based on the helmsman's read of *his* magnetic compass AND holding an accurate course long enough to align the radio compass. That's it, folks. THAT is RDF, using a "radio compass" as the equipment was originally called. ----- Now, who the hell would try to thread the granite ledges in a fog with that kind of information? Well, the Nattering Nabobs of Knighted Nowhere claim they did it all the time and they survived so it has to be accurate "to within 2 degrees". Of course, one of those silly negative gnomes also said he used a paper sextant in the fog to tell him where he was going. Yeah. Paper sextant and radio compass in the fog in the granite ledges. Now, let's sit back and wait for the silly negative gnomes of NN of KN jump all over like Mexican beans on a hot skillet trying to say that "Ships didn't have mobile radio compasses, so they weren't aligned each time they were used...", and so forth. The idgits confused equipment with technique simply because they didn't understand the technique. Lucky *******s they were if they really did blunder through the granite ledges in a fog. Many other people weren't lucky. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
see, even ricky tuggs -- who in the past has claimed to be an ag pilot, an
airline pilot, a construction crew foreman, a ten year liveaboard in Mexico, ALL before he was 35 -- who these days claims to a working master seaman as in a decision maker on ocean going vessels is not able to explain radio compasses, curious if obsolete technology, nor knows how to get 2* accuracy output from plus or minus 20* input. The Carrolls wrote: Look sonny, I got out of study hall a few years ago. While I was there I learned a bit about those who know little and try to confuse us with B.S. You my friend meet all the criteria, as young as you may be. If you had years and wisdom, you would offer substance rather than wisecracks, but are unable to carry coherent argument with out resorting to said cracks. You are a minor pest and should be gone. The truth is that Jax is not a young fool, he is an adult idiot. He has years that have brought him not wisdom but only the disturbances you reflected in his incoherent rants and bizarre essays. Jax's latest revival will probably be a short lived, if extravagant, display of the course of a mental illness that drugs no longer control. We might hasten his demise if, rather than respond to his posts, we only post - about - him. Without a "straight man" (no pun intended) Jax is less than a minor pest and will soon implode. Rick |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
I have, but it was beyond your abilities to comprehend
JAXAshby wrote: still, over the nee, *you* have failed to offer an explanation as to how RDF works, AND how RDF aligned with a mag compass can be more accurate than it is. duh. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
yeah, you sure did alright.
you started out saying a bearing was not a bearing but was a bearing, and went downhill from there. now, about your claim that *you* can get accuracy to 2* from input accurate to only 20*, you wanna try that one again? go ahead. knock yourself out. I have, but it was beyond your abilities to comprehend JAXAshby wrote: still, over the nee, *you* have failed to offer an explanation as to how RDF works, AND how RDF aligned with a mag compass can be more accurate than it is. duh. |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
No, he is a young fool, just been rode hard and put away wet. His years
havent allowed him to mature, and that makes him a young fool. "Rick" wrote in message hlink.net... The Carrolls wrote: Look sonny, I got out of study hall a few years ago. While I was there I learned a bit about those who know little and try to confuse us with B.S. You my friend meet all the criteria, as young as you may be. If you had years and wisdom, you would offer substance rather than wisecracks, but are unable to carry coherent argument with out resorting to said cracks. You are a minor pest and should be gone. The truth is that Jax is not a young fool, he is an adult idiot. He has years that have brought him not wisdom but only the disturbances you reflected in his incoherent rants and bizarre essays. Jax's latest revival will probably be a short lived, if extravagant, display of the course of a mental illness that drugs no longer control. We might hasten his demise if, rather than respond to his posts, we only post - about - him. Without a "straight man" (no pun intended) Jax is less than a minor pest and will soon implode. Rick |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
"JAXAshby" wrote in message ... still, over the nee, *you* have failed to offer an explanation as to how RDF works, AND how RDF aligned with a mag compass can be more accurate than it is. duh. Jax, Why don't you explain RDF to us? You can't, can you? You are too stupid to understand a simple concept like RDF. You've had three days to learn about it on Google, and yet you are unable to offer any evidence at all that you have any understandung of the subject. Now, you can prove me wrong. Just post a simple explanation - in your own words - and I will be forced to offer an apology. You can't! You are an intellectual impotent. Regards Donal -- |
RDF for newbies and NN of KN
ah, donny? um, you had to have read it to get, um, this far.
Jax, Why don't you explain RDF to us? You can't, can you? You are too stupid to understand a simple concept like RDF. You've had three days to learn about it on Google, and yet you are unable to offer any evidence at all that you have any understandung of the subject. Now, you can prove me wrong. Just post a simple explanation - in your own words - and I will be forced to offer an apology. You can't! You are an intellectual impotent. Regards Donal -- |
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