"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
And since I have been willing to answer your questions, how about you
answering one of mine? - What would happen to YOUR boat if you hit a
log with sufficient force to penetrate your hull? Would YOUR boat stay
afloat, or would your keel quickly pull the boat down to the bottom?


My boat has enough foam in her construction to float the basic hull. In
addition, she has 6 watertight flotation chambers, four across the boat forward,
forming a "collision bulkhead," and two aft. Also, I have two complete hulls
(though I wouldn't call her "double-hulled") running the full length. I have no
lead keel, but the fiberglass keels are designed to breakaway without damaging
the hull.

I don't worry much about sinking, but I didn't worry that much with my previous
boat which did not have these advantages. The vast majority of sinkings happen
at the dock and are an insurance headache, not life threatening. The only
reason why this is an issue for a Mac is that they are so lightly built is easy
to see how it might be compromised.

--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup
at the deli."

Jeff Morris wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

And since I have been willing to answer your questions, how about you
answering one of mine? - What would happen to YOUR boat if you hit a
log with sufficient force to penetrate your hull? Would YOUR boat stay
afloat, or would your keel quickly pull the boat down to the bottom?



My boat has enough foam in her construction to float the basic hull. In
addition, she has 6 watertight flotation chambers, four across the boat forward,
forming a "collision bulkhead," and two aft. Also, I have two complete hulls
(though I wouldn't call her "double-hulled") running the full length. I have no
lead keel, but the fiberglass keels are designed to breakaway without damaging
the hull.

I don't worry much about sinking, but I didn't worry that much with my previous
boat which did not have these advantages. The vast majority of sinkings happen
at the dock and are an insurance headache, not life threatening. The only
reason why this is an issue for a Mac is that they are so lightly built is easy
to see how it might be compromised.

Your boat is an unusual design. Not many on his ng would float after a
collision. - In most of them, the lead keel would quickly drag the boat
down to the bottom.

I agree that sinking because of a failure or accident is a rare event.
But it's nice to know that you won't wake up in the middle of the night
with the boat filling with water, and having to make a frantic search
for the faulty through hull hose or connection. Or finding out that
your displacement boat can't quite sail (or motor) on through 15-30-ft
breaking waves.

Jim

Jim

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
My boat has enough foam in her construction to float the basic hull. In
addition, she has 6 watertight flotation chambers, four across the boat
forward,
forming a "collision bulkhead," and two aft. Also, I have two complete
hulls
(though I wouldn't call her "double-hulled") running the full length. I
have no
lead keel, but the fiberglass keels are designed to breakaway without
damaging
the hull.

I don't worry much about sinking, but I didn't worry that much with my
previous
boat which did not have these advantages. The vast majority of sinkings
happen
at the dock and are an insurance headache, not life threatening. The only
reason why this is an issue for a Mac is that they are so lightly built is
easy
to see how it might be compromised.

Your boat is an unusual design.

No, it a pretty standard design for a crusing catamaran. BTW, you once
mentioned the possibility for spending over $50K for this boat. For that money,
you could have bought a used Gemini 30 or maybe a F27. Shallow draft, speed
under power and sail, a LOT more fun.



Not many on his ng would float after a
collision. - In most of them, the lead keel would quickly drag the boat
down to the bottom.

Most of the boats owned by this group would not be holed by a collision. In
fact, I've seen a variety of "booboos" but I can't remember one now that put a
boat at serious risk of sinking. (I'm sure one will come to mind.) However,
I've seen a few that if the target had been a Mac, it would have been chopped in
half. BTW, positive flotation isn't unique to the Mac. Its required on all
small boats, and pretty common on boats up to 25 feet. I'm sure the Hunter
water ballast boats have positive floatation. The problem is that while it
takes a lot of water to sink a large boat, a small one can be taken down pretty
easily.



I agree that sinking because of a failure or accident is a rare event.
But it's nice to know that you won't wake up in the middle of the night
with the boat filling with water, and having to make a frantic search
for the faulty through hull hose or connection. Or finding out that
your displacement boat can't quite sail (or motor) on through 15-30-ft
breaking waves.

You seem to be very concerned with 30 foot breaking waves. You need
professional help, not a boat.

Jeff Morris wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

My boat has enough foam in her construction to float the basic hull. In
addition, she has 6 watertight flotation chambers, four across the boat

forward,

forming a "collision bulkhead," and two aft. Also, I have two complete

hulls

(though I wouldn't call her "double-hulled") running the full length. I

have no

lead keel, but the fiberglass keels are designed to breakaway without

damaging

the hull.

I don't worry much about sinking, but I didn't worry that much with my

previous

boat which did not have these advantages. The vast majority of sinkings

happen

at the dock and are an insurance headache, not life threatening. The only
reason why this is an issue for a Mac is that they are so lightly built is

easy

to see how it might be compromised.


Your boat is an unusual design.


No, it a pretty standard design for a crusing catamaran.

As I said, your boat is an unusual design. Only a smallpercentge of
cruising sailboats are cats.



BTW, you once
mentioned the possibility for spending over $50K for this boat.

Its far less than that even fully equipped with 50 hp motor, roller
reefing, lines led aft, GPS chart plotter, auto steering, vhf, radar, etc.

For that money,
you could have bought a used Gemini 30 or maybe a F27. Shallow draft, speed
under power and sail, a LOT more fun.

Lots of used boats here at reasonable prices, but all of them had
problems. u


Not many on his ng would float after a
collision. - In most of them, the lead keel would quickly drag the boat
down to the bottom.


Most of the boats owned by this group would not be holed by a collision. In
fact, I've seen a variety of "booboos" but I can't remember one now that put a
boat at serious risk of sinking. (I'm sure one will come to mind.) However,
I've seen a few that if the target had been a Mac, it would have been chopped in
half.

In that unlikely event, the Mac would still float.

BTW, positive flotation isn't unique to the Mac. Its required on all
small boats, and pretty common on boats up to 25 feet. I'm sure the Hunter
water ballast boats have positive floatation. The problem is that while it
takes a lot of water to sink a large boat, a small one can be taken down pretty
easily.

So can a large boat.



I agree that sinking because of a failure or accident is a rare event.
But it's nice to know that you won't wake up in the middle of the night
with the boat filling with water, and having to make a frantic search
for the faulty through hull hose or connection. Or finding out that
your displacement boat can't quite sail (or motor) on through 15-30-ft
breaking waves.


You seem to be very concerned with 30 foot breaking waves.

Not really.

You need
professional help, not a boat.

Actually, I rather thing that anyone who DOESN'T take such weather
conditions seriously, and prepare for them, is the one who needs
professional help.

Jim

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Your boat is an unusual design.


No, it a pretty standard design for a crusing catamaran.

As I said, your boat is an unusual design. Only a smallpercentge of
cruising sailboats are cats.


Look around, Jim. Cats may be a minority, but many thousands have been built.
Prout built 5000, and possibly has had more circumnavigations than Valiant; the
French have built even more. Certainly, a lot more money is spent on cruising
cats than tralorable sailboats with 50 hp engines.





BTW, you once
mentioned the possibility for spending over $50K for this boat.

Its far less than that even fully equipped with 50 hp motor, roller
reefing, lines led aft, GPS chart plotter, auto steering, vhf, radar, etc.

I didn't mean this particular boat. I meant you implied you were willing to
spend more when you were searching.


For that money,
you could have bought a used Gemini 30 or maybe a F27. Shallow draft, speed
under power and sail, a LOT more fun.

Lots of used boats here at reasonable prices, but all of them had
problems.

Sounds like you didn't look at many boats.




Not many on his ng would float after a
collision. - In most of them, the lead keel would quickly drag the boat
down to the bottom.


Most of the boats owned by this group would not be holed by a collision. In
fact, I've seen a variety of "booboos" but I can't remember one now that put
a
boat at serious risk of sinking. (I'm sure one will come to mind.)
However,
I've seen a few that if the target had been a Mac, it would have been
chopped in
half.

In that unlikely event, the Mac would still float.

Maybe, but in how many pieces? And how far would you grandchildren be
scattered? Remember, drownings don't happen from sinking (according to the
statistics), the happen from capsizing and falling off of unstable boats. You
keep solving the problems that don't exist.


....

You seem to be very concerned with 30 foot breaking waves.

Not really.

You need
professional help, not a boat.

Actually, I rather thing that anyone who DOESN'T take such weather
conditions seriously, and prepare for them, is the one who needs
professional help.

Oh, yes, Jim, you're prepared all right!

Jeff Morris wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Your boat is an unusual design.


No, it a pretty standard design for a crusing catamaran.

As I said, your boat is an unusual design. Only a smallpercentge of
cruising sailboats are cats.



Look around, Jim. Cats may be a minority, but many thousands have been built.
Prout built 5000, and possibly has had more circumnavigations than Valiant; the
French have built even more. Certainly, a lot more money is spent on cruising
cats than tralorable sailboats with 50 hp engines.



I'll certainly admit that they cost more than what I'm spending on the Mac.

I don't question that they are fast, roomy, and exciting boats. I was
only pointing out that your flotation system was not usually found on
the great majority of ocean sailing boats.


Jim




BTW, you once

mentioned the possibility for spending over $50K for this boat.

Its far less than that even fully equipped with 50 hp motor, roller
reefing, lines led aft, GPS chart plotter, auto steering, vhf, radar, etc.


I didn't mean this particular boat. I meant you implied you were willing to
spend more when you were searching.


For that money,

you could have bought a used Gemini 30 or maybe a F27. Shallow draft, speed
under power and sail, a LOT more fun.

Lots of used boats here at reasonable prices, but all of them had
problems.


Sounds like you didn't look at many boats.




Not many on his ng would float after a
collision. - In most of them, the lead keel would quickly drag the boat
down to the bottom.


Most of the boats owned by this group would not be holed by a collision. In
fact, I've seen a variety of "booboos" but I can't remember one now that put

a

boat at serious risk of sinking. (I'm sure one will come to mind.)

However,

I've seen a few that if the target had been a Mac, it would have been

chopped in

half.

In that unlikely event, the Mac would still float.


Maybe, but in how many pieces? And how far would you grandchildren be
scattered? Remember, drownings don't happen from sinking (according to the
statistics), the happen from capsizing and falling off of unstable boats. You
keep solving the problems that don't exist.


...

You seem to be very concerned with 30 foot breaking waves.

Not really.

You need

professional help, not a boat.

Actually, I rather thing that anyone who DOESN'T take such weather
conditions seriously, and prepare for them, is the one who needs
professional help.


Oh, yes, Jim, you're prepared all right!

Sorry to hear you feel that way Jim. I've been posting to this group
for 25 years. if you want, you can call me at the office and verify
that it is indeed me. I'll be glad to discuss the new 'M' model and
maybe we can make a deal on your bridge.
Call the factory and ask for Rog.

Roger MacGregor


"Jim Cate" wrote in message ...

wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:48:11 -0500, Jim Cate wrote:



check the headers and then do a Google. Roger has posted here before.



Binary, think about this for a moment. This newsgroup can be read by
anyone in the United States with access to the internet. In fact, it
can be read by people around the world. - In England, France, Germany,
Italy, Japan, Russia, China, etc. Do you REALLY think that the "real"
Roger MacGregor is going to post comments criticizing his boats like
that on this newsgroup? Comments like:

real sailors know what a "CRAPPY, SHODDY PRODUCT WE PEDDLE." Our
customers have "NO CLUE WHATSOEVER ... AS TO HOW BAD OUR BOAT REALLY
IS." And telling everyone on the www that he paid a bribe to
Practical Sailor, and paid off the DEP and OSHA?

If so, I have several bridges up for sale.

you best stay on land, jimmy.

"Jim Cate" wrote
But it's nice to know that you won't wake up in the middle of the night
with the boat filling with water,

Or finding out that
your displacement boat can't quite sail (or motor) on through 15-30-ft
breaking waves.