Well, the Mac line of boats are bottom of the barrel. Not sure what
else "we" can tell you. If you like/want the compromise, go for it.
At this point, I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Well, this discussion string is now up to around 250 responses, not
including my own. It's interesting that no one has commented on my
initial "both and" rather than "either or" plan. As you may recall, I
stated that:

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used
30
- 32-foot boats.

In other words, my plan was to consider getting a 26M Mac for: (1) it's
obvious advantages in shallow bay waters and close-in coastal cruising
(such as, for fishing, and for getting to fishing or sailing areas
quickly and for returning quickly, for anchoring in areas where small
childred (grandkids) could swim, for beaching on local islands, etc.),
AND ALSO (2) to continue to charter larger boats for more extended
cruising without the younger (3 to 5 year old) set.

In any event, it's obvious that my note and my refusal to "cave" are
either generating increasing frustration or providing some perverse form
of pleasure to participants in this discussion string.
(No one, after all, is required to participate.)

Again, I'm not asking for agreement or "approval" or even acquiescence.
I would like to seem some semblance of logic, rationality and
intellectual honesty, however. - Like, for starters, talking about the
same boat I'm talking about.

Jim



Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.

SV

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Well, the Mac line of boats are bottom of the barrel. Not sure what
else "we" can tell you. If you like/want the compromise, go for it.
At this point, I'm not sure what you're looking for here.

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Well, this discussion string is now up to around 250 responses, not
including my own. It's interesting that no one has commented on my
initial "both and" rather than "either or" plan. As you may recall, I
stated that:

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours
on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used
30
- 32-foot boats.

In other words, my plan was to consider getting a 26M Mac for: (1) it's
obvious advantages in shallow bay waters and close-in coastal cruising
(such as, for fishing, and for getting to fishing or sailing areas
quickly and for returning quickly, for anchoring in areas where small
childred (grandkids) could swim, for beaching on local islands, etc.),
AND ALSO (2) to continue to charter larger boats for more extended
cruising without the younger (3 to 5 year old) set.

In any event, it's obvious that my note and my refusal to "cave" are
either generating increasing frustration or providing some perverse form
of pleasure to participants in this discussion string.
(No one, after all, is required to participate.)

Again, I'm not asking for agreement or "approval" or even acquiescence.
I would like to seem some semblance of logic, rationality and
intellectual honesty, however. - Like, for starters, talking about the
same boat I'm talking about.

Jim



Jim Cate wrote:


I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have
some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and
doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant,
although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots
under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina
to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel
(which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the
years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the
video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the
Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours
on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used
30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring
characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.


The older Macs, like Coronado's and a few other low end makes were built at the
lowest price point possible and were passable at best.
A "pretty good little boat" is a C&C 25, Cape Dory 25, Pearson 26 and so on.

RB

Scott Vernon wrote:

Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.

Yeah, what he said!

Xtually the Mac26 PowR-SailR isn't a bad boat if you understand it's limits and
agree with the basic design philosophy. MacGregor has always built their boats
to be very inexpensive but that doesn't necessarily make them bad, or flimsy.
There are a heck of a lot of 20 and 30 year old Ventures & MacGregors out there
sailing.

Most of the older MacGregor models sail fairly well. Some are quite good, the
Mac 25, which was the predecessor to the older water ballast 26, has left many a
more expensive & prestigious yacht in it's wake.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

which was the predecessor to the older water ballast 26, has left many a
more expensive & prestigious yacht in it's wake.

Meaning what exactly? A Mac 25 will outrun a Dana 24 as well.
I guess you'd call the Mac a "better" boat.

RB

which was the predecessor to the older water ballast 26, has left many a
more expensive & prestigious yacht in it's wake.


Bobsprit wrote:
Meaning what exactly? A Mac 25 will outrun a Dana 24 as well.
I guess you'd call the Mac a "better" boat.

For some purposes, it is definitely a better boat. For others, it may not
be. You got a problem with that?

Is the Mac25 a better boat than a C&C 32 that never sails and has a host of
long term structural problems?

Maybe you should argue about it with Marc and BittyBill. Jax could referee
it.

DSK

Is the Mac25 a better boat than a C&C 32 that never sails and has a host of
long term structural problems?


Yes it would be. But I know of no C&C 32s or any C&Cs in my area with problems
you list.
Can't you manage to stay on topic without belittling yourself with tired
trolls? I don't like the Mac26 or any Macs for that matter. I have been aboard
the old macs and found them horribly cheap. The new X and M are simply awful.
It's my opinion, based on watching them sail and being aboard several. If they
sailed well (we all agree they DON'T) it would be another matter.
This is a sailing group, Doug. You directed a large portion of your time to a
powerboat, which in part explains your easy acceptance of a 26M. But I like
sailboats that sail well, that look nice, and that haven't been built to the
lowest price point available. I won't defend a Mac anymore than I'd defend a
boat with bad decks. I'll leave that to you and Scotty. It's sooooo easy to go
the "they're okay for some people" route. Show a little backbone and let's have
YOUR opinion. I seem to recall that you claimed you'd NEVER buy the Hunter 19
again after you discovered the weaknesses and quality. But they're "okay for
some people?" Or are they just crappy boats?

RB

Bobsprit wrote:

.... I seem to recall that you claimed you'd NEVER buy the Hunter 19
again after you discovered the weaknesses and quality.

I never said that. Go ahead and google up what I actually did say, it should
provide some entertainment (which is what you're really after). Your memory is as
bad as everything else about you.

Bobsprit wrote:

.... But I like
sailboats that sail well, that look nice, and that haven't been built to the
lowest price point available.

Yeah right. That's why 1- you never go sailing
2- you are proud of th many ugly excresences, such as the stern ladder, mounted on
the boat you claim to own
3- you are often bragging about how little you paid for the boat you claim to own.

DSK

Isn't the M25 in the Sail hall of fame? Ever seen a Mac/Venture 23' cutter
rigged? Cool looking boat.

Scotty

SV

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Scott Vernon wrote:

Careful Jon, the older Macs (pre X ) were pretty good little boats.

Yeah, what he said!

Xtually the Mac26 PowR-SailR isn't a bad boat if you understand it's
limits and
agree with the basic design philosophy. MacGregor has always built their
boats
to be very inexpensive but that doesn't necessarily make them bad, or
flimsy.
There are a heck of a lot of 20 and 30 year old Ventures & MacGregors out
there
sailing.

Most of the older MacGregor models sail fairly well. Some are quite good,
the
Mac 25, which was the predecessor to the older water ballast 26, has left
many a
more expensive & prestigious yacht in it's wake.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Scott Vernon wrote:

Isn't the M25 in the Sail hall of fame? Ever seen a Mac/Venture 23' cutter
rigged? Cool looking boat.

Yes, the "Venture of Newport" which was intended to cash in on the growing
popularity of classic boats at that time.

Not to disillusion you Scott but it is really just a Venture 21 with a bowsprit
& quarter rail screwed on. It is pretty cool looking though. There is one that
sails a lake nearby, the owner has changed it to a quasi-gaff rig, added a row
of bronze portholes, and some other old-timey nautical gear. Makes you want to
grab a rusty cutlass and shout "Argh, matey!"

Fresh Breezes- Doug King