SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Hello,

Hope this goes better then the last time I tried posting here.

Anyway, I'm contemplating a job-related relocation to the Bay area from New
England. I'm hoping to get some comments on the sailing scene in the Bay
Area as compared to the Northeast (Mass/RI/Maine) coasts. I do mostly day
sailing with a few 2-3 days weekends and a couple of week long trips per
year. My weekends are usually up to Cape Ann or down to the Plymouth, and
the week long trips are usually to Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, or P-town
and the Stellwagen bank for whale watching.

While the weather and the wind seems pretty decent in the Bay Area, I'm
wondering about the following:

-Is there a variety of places to visit, anchor, go ashore and explore like
there is in the Northeast, or is sailing mostly criss crossing the bay?

-How is sailing in the off-season? Even in Boston there are hardy souls
that do winter sailing/racing (kind of cool in the snow!) but I was
wondering how common it is for people to get out in the winter season.

-If I didn't want to buy a boat right away (I think the local housing market
will take care of that) are there any recommended clubs to check out,
preferably that have a fleet with boats in the 24' - 30'-something size? I
mostly sail J-30's, and sometimes C&C 33's with an occasional J-24.

I get a sense that I'll miss all of the islands and harbors here in New
England. But I'm not sure what kind of destinations lie inside and outside
the Bay. And of course it's closer to Seattle, and the San Juans, where I
really like to charter for a week and sail, and in the Bay it seems an
exciting ride is pretty much guaranteed on a regular basis.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks!

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

You would have liked the Chesapeake Bay. Too bad.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

I agree, the Chesapeake is great for exploring, fishing, crabbing. It goes
back a while but I've had a good time sailing down there, when I was in
college, our sailing team got to race a couple times on the Luder Yawls at
the Naval Academy. Unfortunately that's not an option I wish it were, a lot
closer to my family in NYC.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
You would have liked the Chesapeake Bay. Too bad.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Consider normal Northern Hemisphere weather patterns. The weather
tends to move from West to East, which makes for a totally different
coastal condition, for sailing.
Think of SF Bay as an oversized Boston Harbor ... there are many places
to go in a larger area.
Sailing in Winter on the West Coast, is more normal than rare, but at
any time of year, sailing offshore, especially from Point Conception,
North tends to require some greater distances and greater pre-planning,
than you may be used to....the closest thing to NE for Islands, etc.,
for cruising is Puget Sound, etc..
I'm being vague and skipping details, but sense that's what you are
interested in.

Intenost wrote:
Hello,

Hope this goes better then the last time I tried posting here.

Anyway, I'm contemplating a job-related relocation to the Bay area from New
England. I'm hoping to get some comments on the sailing scene in the Bay
Area as compared to the Northeast (Mass/RI/Maine) coasts. I do mostly day
sailing with a few 2-3 days weekends and a couple of week long trips per
year. My weekends are usually up to Cape Ann or down to the Plymouth, and
the week long trips are usually to Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, or P-town
and the Stellwagen bank for whale watching.

While the weather and the wind seems pretty decent in the Bay Area, I'm
wondering about the following:

-Is there a variety of places to visit, anchor, go ashore and explore like
there is in the Northeast, or is sailing mostly criss crossing the bay?

-How is sailing in the off-season? Even in Boston there are hardy souls
that do winter sailing/racing (kind of cool in the snow!) but I was
wondering how common it is for people to get out in the winter season.

-If I didn't want to buy a boat right away (I think the local housing market
will take care of that) are there any recommended clubs to check out,
preferably that have a fleet with boats in the 24' - 30'-something size? I
mostly sail J-30's, and sometimes C&C 33's with an occasional J-24.

I get a sense that I'll miss all of the islands and harbors here in New
England. But I'm not sure what kind of destinations lie inside and outside
the Bay. And of course it's closer to Seattle, and the San Juans, where I
really like to charter for a week and sail, and in the Bay it seems an
exciting ride is pretty much guaranteed on a regular basis.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks!

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

He's talking about sailing - not motoring.
How come you motorboaters seem to think
you're qualified to answer questions posed
by sailors?

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message link.net...
Consider normal Northern Hemisphere weather patterns. The weather
tends to move from West to East, which makes for a totally different
coastal condition, for sailing.
Think of SF Bay as an oversized Boston Harbor ... there are many places
to go in a larger area.
Sailing in Winter on the West Coast, is more normal than rare, but at
any time of year, sailing offshore, especially from Point Conception,
North tends to require some greater distances and greater pre-planning,
than you may be used to....the closest thing to NE for Islands, etc.,
for cruising is Puget Sound, etc..
I'm being vague and skipping details, but sense that's what you are
interested in.

Intenost wrote:
Hello,

Hope this goes better then the last time I tried posting here.

Anyway, I'm contemplating a job-related relocation to the Bay area from New
England. I'm hoping to get some comments on the sailing scene in the Bay
Area as compared to the Northeast (Mass/RI/Maine) coasts. I do mostly day
sailing with a few 2-3 days weekends and a couple of week long trips per
year. My weekends are usually up to Cape Ann or down to the Plymouth, and
the week long trips are usually to Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, or P-town
and the Stellwagen bank for whale watching.

While the weather and the wind seems pretty decent in the Bay Area, I'm
wondering about the following:

-Is there a variety of places to visit, anchor, go ashore and explore like
there is in the Northeast, or is sailing mostly criss crossing the bay?

-How is sailing in the off-season? Even in Boston there are hardy souls
that do winter sailing/racing (kind of cool in the snow!) but I was
wondering how common it is for people to get out in the winter season.

-If I didn't want to buy a boat right away (I think the local housing market
will take care of that) are there any recommended clubs to check out,
preferably that have a fleet with boats in the 24' - 30'-something size? I
mostly sail J-30's, and sometimes C&C 33's with an occasional J-24.

I get a sense that I'll miss all of the islands and harbors here in New
England. But I'm not sure what kind of destinations lie inside and outside
the Bay. And of course it's closer to Seattle, and the San Juans, where I
really like to charter for a week and sail, and in the Bay it seems an
exciting ride is pretty much guaranteed on a regular basis.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks!

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

I can't speak to sailing in NE, but I can attest to the conditions out here.

There is a lot to offer inside the bay. It's actually quite large, and if
you
don't mind some long motoring, you can even make your way up the
delta to Sacramento. The sailing in the north part of the bay can be
quite challenging, especially if you're not used to the normal 20-30 kts
wind. 40 kts isn't unheard of and even higher happens from time to time.

There are no real waves, but it's not unusual to get 4-5 ft chop on the
higher wind days, especially when the current is opposing the wind. It
is not unusual to experience currents upward of 6 kts, lots of tanker
traffic,
heavy fog, and sharply cold conditions in the middle of summer, not to
mention the confusion of other traffic, both sail and power. You need to
know the rules for sure, and you have to know that a good 50% of the
people out there don't know the rules.

I've been sailing in the bay since the 80s, and I have yet to be bored
with places to sail to or areas to explore. There are some favorite
hangouts, such as Sam's or Ayala on Angel Island, but there is always
something going on elsewhere in the north bay. You don't need to be
confined by mooring balls or slips to spend a long weekend on the water.
There are many places to anchor out, which in some ways make for an
even nice overnight. For example, one great spot is on the back of Angel
across from the Southhampton Shoal area. It has good holding, not many
people, and it's very quiet.

For longer trips, you have access to up and down the coast, Monterey to
the south and Bolinas to the north, for example. There aren't any places to
stop between SF and either of those places... well, not really, but they do
make nice long weekend trips. There is also the Farallons, but you can't
get on the island. The conditions on the coast vary from damn nice to damn
unpleasent to damn dangerous. It is not unusual to have 10 foot waves just
outside the Golden Gate Bridge, but within the Golden Gate area.

Most people I know sail all year round, with the expection of heavy rain
or storms. It's actually warmer on the bay during the winter because the
wind is lighter and there isn't fog. It's quite hard to get tired of sailing
along
the SF city front at night, taking in the sights, sounds, and restaurant
smells.

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through. If you want to email me, I'd be happy to give you my
list of the better ones. You'll find boats to rent that range from small
dinks to
50 foot monos and large cats.

Jonathan

"Intenost" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Hope this goes better then the last time I tried posting here.

Anyway, I'm contemplating a job-related relocation to the Bay area from
New
England. I'm hoping to get some comments on the sailing scene in the Bay
Area as compared to the Northeast (Mass/RI/Maine) coasts. I do mostly day
sailing with a few 2-3 days weekends and a couple of week long trips per
year. My weekends are usually up to Cape Ann or down to the Plymouth, and
the week long trips are usually to Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, or P-town
and the Stellwagen bank for whale watching.

While the weather and the wind seems pretty decent in the Bay Area, I'm
wondering about the following:

-Is there a variety of places to visit, anchor, go ashore and explore like
there is in the Northeast, or is sailing mostly criss crossing the bay?

-How is sailing in the off-season? Even in Boston there are hardy souls
that do winter sailing/racing (kind of cool in the snow!) but I was
wondering how common it is for people to get out in the winter season.

-If I didn't want to buy a boat right away (I think the local housing
market
will take care of that) are there any recommended clubs to check out,
preferably that have a fleet with boats in the 24' - 30'-something size? I
mostly sail J-30's, and sometimes C&C 33's with an occasional J-24.

I get a sense that I'll miss all of the islands and harbors here in New
England. But I'm not sure what kind of destinations lie inside and
outside
the Bay. And of course it's closer to Seattle, and the San Juans, where I
really like to charter for a week and sail, and in the Bay it seems an
exciting ride is pretty much guaranteed on a regular basis.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks!

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

If you want to email me for info, use j _ g _ a _ n _ z @ sailnow . com,
using the usual edits, or visit my website (sailnow) for other contact
info.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I can't speak to sailing in NE, but I can attest to the conditions out
here.

There is a lot to offer inside the bay. It's actually quite large, and if
you
don't mind some long motoring, you can even make your way up the
delta to Sacramento. The sailing in the north part of the bay can be
quite challenging, especially if you're not used to the normal 20-30 kts
wind. 40 kts isn't unheard of and even higher happens from time to time.

There are no real waves, but it's not unusual to get 4-5 ft chop on the
higher wind days, especially when the current is opposing the wind. It
is not unusual to experience currents upward of 6 kts, lots of tanker
traffic,
heavy fog, and sharply cold conditions in the middle of summer, not to
mention the confusion of other traffic, both sail and power. You need to
know the rules for sure, and you have to know that a good 50% of the
people out there don't know the rules.

I've been sailing in the bay since the 80s, and I have yet to be bored
with places to sail to or areas to explore. There are some favorite
hangouts, such as Sam's or Ayala on Angel Island, but there is always
something going on elsewhere in the north bay. You don't need to be
confined by mooring balls or slips to spend a long weekend on the water.
There are many places to anchor out, which in some ways make for an
even nice overnight. For example, one great spot is on the back of Angel
across from the Southhampton Shoal area. It has good holding, not many
people, and it's very quiet.

For longer trips, you have access to up and down the coast, Monterey to
the south and Bolinas to the north, for example. There aren't any places
to
stop between SF and either of those places... well, not really, but they
do
make nice long weekend trips. There is also the Farallons, but you can't
get on the island. The conditions on the coast vary from damn nice to damn
unpleasent to damn dangerous. It is not unusual to have 10 foot waves just
outside the Golden Gate Bridge, but within the Golden Gate area.

Most people I know sail all year round, with the expection of heavy rain
or storms. It's actually warmer on the bay during the winter because the
wind is lighter and there isn't fog. It's quite hard to get tired of
sailing
along
the SF city front at night, taking in the sights, sounds, and restaurant
smells.

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through. If you want to email me, I'd be happy to give you
my
list of the better ones. You'll find boats to rent that range from small
dinks to
50 foot monos and large cats.

Jonathan

"Intenost" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Hope this goes better then the last time I tried posting here.

Anyway, I'm contemplating a job-related relocation to the Bay area from
New
England. I'm hoping to get some comments on the sailing scene in the Bay
Area as compared to the Northeast (Mass/RI/Maine) coasts. I do mostly
day
sailing with a few 2-3 days weekends and a couple of week long trips per
year. My weekends are usually up to Cape Ann or down to the Plymouth,
and
the week long trips are usually to Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, or
P-town
and the Stellwagen bank for whale watching.

While the weather and the wind seems pretty decent in the Bay Area, I'm
wondering about the following:

-Is there a variety of places to visit, anchor, go ashore and explore
like
there is in the Northeast, or is sailing mostly criss crossing the bay?

-How is sailing in the off-season? Even in Boston there are hardy souls

that do winter sailing/racing (kind of cool in the snow!) but I was
wondering how common it is for people to get out in the winter season.

-If I didn't want to buy a boat right away (I think the local housing
market
will take care of that) are there any recommended clubs to check out,
preferably that have a fleet with boats in the 24' - 30'-something size?
I
mostly sail J-30's, and sometimes C&C 33's with an occasional J-24.

I get a sense that I'll miss all of the islands and harbors here in New
England. But I'm not sure what kind of destinations lie inside and
outside
the Bay. And of course it's closer to Seattle, and the San Juans, where
I
really like to charter for a week and sail, and in the Bay it seems an
exciting ride is pretty much guaranteed on a regular basis.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks!

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Intenost,

You got the right man with Jon.

I think you"ll love sailing out here. I'm in the Puget Sound Area, after
growing up on Long Island Sound. I was led to believe LI Sound was the
best. Boy was I wrong.. Puget Sound tops it hands down

I sailed a little on SF Bay. Damn little but it's a hell of a great
place to sail. Maybe the best in the country. IMHO!

The big draw back out hear is the water is cold, COLD!! You don't go
swimming like back East. This is Wet Suit Country.

SAILING IS THE GREATEST!

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through.

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Not sure what you mean...?

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through.

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Well, I'm a bit naive I guess.

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Thanks for the gay perspective, Jon, I'm sure
RickyTickyTugs and Bobsprit will appreciate it.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Hey Craz,

I don't believe your Hong Kong Sails would last a season on SF Bay. It
is a great, ruget sailing area. A place where sailor and equipment are
put to the full test often.

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Gee, I thought you were the one giving that....

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the gay perspective, Jon, I'm sure
RickyTickyTugs and Bobsprit will appreciate it.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail
from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

I don't know about the sails. I do know Neal wouldn't last 10 minutes.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hey Craz,

I don't believe your Hong Kong Sails would last a season on SF Bay. It
is a great, ruget sailing area. A place where sailor and equipment are
put to the full test often.

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Well, I'm a bit naive I guess.

Naive .... or still engaging in illegal chartering?

You know the address to send complaints to.


Regards


Donal
--




"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter
companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England -- THANKS!
 

Thanks! Jon, Thom, Bart, et al, appreciate all of the great info. So looks
like I'm in for some challenging sailing, and hopefully will have the time
to get into the racing scene, although I've been more of a cruising sailor
the last decade or so. I did charter a boat, J-24 I think, out of Sausalito
once, and had quite a ride, in fact I watched another boat get dismasted,
dramatic, although nobody was hurt, and local boaters and S&R got there in a
hurry. Funny, I thought I would get grilled by the charter outfit, being an
out of towner on a pretty rough day, but all they did was asked me to put a
double reef in the main at the dock, and then they said, "have fun" which I
did! But I was wondering about the crusing opportunities there as I feel
kind of spoiled by New England, with all the coves and harbors to duck into,
and lobster for the taking.

Puget Sound is great, I've done 4 weeks in the San Juan's over the last 5
years, and hope to go back in 2004. It's just such a great place to get
away, great sailing, beautiful sailing, unspoiled. And nice to be able to
empty that holding tank in Canadian waters :-).

Due to work location and cost of living issues, I may wind up living closer
to Santa Cruz/Monterey then SF Bay, so I may be back looking for pointers on
the sailing opportunities in that area...

Regards,

-Ost

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Intenost,

You got the right man with Jon.

I think you"ll love sailing out here. I'm in the Puget Sound Area, after
growing up on Long Island Sound. I was led to believe LI Sound was the
best. Boy was I wrong.. Puget Sound tops it hands down

I sailed a little on SF Bay. Damn little but it's a hell of a great
place to sail. Maybe the best in the country. IMHO!

The big draw back out hear is the water is cold, COLD!! You don't go
swimming like back East. This is Wet Suit Country.

SAILING IS THE GREATEST!

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England -- THANKS!
 

Ost,

If you get to the Puget Sound, you better give me a call. There is a
Gulf 29 Pilothouse Sloop for you to use (An old man and a Ratterrier
Dog) that goes with it. There is no way you can beat the Price.
One "Mamhatten" straight up. That's your cost.

Seriously, e-mail me and I'll show you some out of the way anchorages
and some Dungeness Crabs that won't beat those NE Lobsters but their not
to bad. With the Microwave, in the Pilothouse you can't get a much
fresher Crab Louie anywhere.

And; "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Yup, Jax gave it to me.

SV

"Donal" wrote

You know the address to send complaints to.

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Yup, Jax gave it to me.



Ewwwwwww!


RB

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England -- THANKS!
 

You're welcome. Most places are probably more cautious
than that in my experience. It's easy to get in trouble on the
bay.

"Intenost" wrote in message
...
Thanks! Jon, Thom, Bart, et al, appreciate all of the great info. So
looks
like I'm in for some challenging sailing, and hopefully will have the time
to get into the racing scene, although I've been more of a cruising sailor
the last decade or so. I did charter a boat, J-24 I think, out of
Sausalito
once, and had quite a ride, in fact I watched another boat get dismasted,
dramatic, although nobody was hurt, and local boaters and S&R got there in
a
hurry. Funny, I thought I would get grilled by the charter outfit, being
an
out of towner on a pretty rough day, but all they did was asked me to put
a
double reef in the main at the dock, and then they said, "have fun" which
I
did! But I was wondering about the crusing opportunities there as I feel
kind of spoiled by New England, with all the coves and harbors to duck
into,
and lobster for the taking.

Puget Sound is great, I've done 4 weeks in the San Juan's over the last 5
years, and hope to go back in 2004. It's just such a great place to get
away, great sailing, beautiful sailing, unspoiled. And nice to be able to
empty that holding tank in Canadian waters :-).

Due to work location and cost of living issues, I may wind up living
closer
to Santa Cruz/Monterey then SF Bay, so I may be back looking for pointers
on
the sailing opportunities in that area...

Regards,

-Ost

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Intenost,

You got the right man with Jon.

I think you"ll love sailing out here. I'm in the Puget Sound Area, after
growing up on Long Island Sound. I was led to believe LI Sound was the
best. Boy was I wrong.. Puget Sound tops it hands down

I sailed a little on SF Bay. Damn little but it's a hell of a great
place to sail. Maybe the best in the country. IMHO!

The big draw back out hear is the water is cold, COLD!! You don't go
swimming like back East. This is Wet Suit Country.

SAILING IS THE GREATEST!

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England -- THANKS!
 

Same goes with what Thom said...

Re Monterey/Santa Cruz... Try Pacific Yachting. www.pacificsail.com.
I know the owner and a good friend is one of the instructors.

"Intenost" wrote in message
...
Thanks! Jon, Thom, Bart, et al, appreciate all of the great info. So
looks
like I'm in for some challenging sailing, and hopefully will have the time
to get into the racing scene, although I've been more of a cruising sailor
the last decade or so. I did charter a boat, J-24 I think, out of
Sausalito
once, and had quite a ride, in fact I watched another boat get dismasted,
dramatic, although nobody was hurt, and local boaters and S&R got there in
a
hurry. Funny, I thought I would get grilled by the charter outfit, being
an
out of towner on a pretty rough day, but all they did was asked me to put
a
double reef in the main at the dock, and then they said, "have fun" which
I
did! But I was wondering about the crusing opportunities there as I feel
kind of spoiled by New England, with all the coves and harbors to duck
into,
and lobster for the taking.

Puget Sound is great, I've done 4 weeks in the San Juan's over the last 5
years, and hope to go back in 2004. It's just such a great place to get
away, great sailing, beautiful sailing, unspoiled. And nice to be able to
empty that holding tank in Canadian waters :-).

Due to work location and cost of living issues, I may wind up living
closer
to Santa Cruz/Monterey then SF Bay, so I may be back looking for pointers
on
the sailing opportunities in that area...

Regards,

-Ost

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Intenost,

You got the right man with Jon.

I think you"ll love sailing out here. I'm in the Puget Sound Area, after
growing up on Long Island Sound. I was led to believe LI Sound was the
best. Boy was I wrong.. Puget Sound tops it hands down

I sailed a little on SF Bay. Damn little but it's a hell of a great
place to sail. Maybe the best in the country. IMHO!

The big draw back out hear is the water is cold, COLD!! You don't go
swimming like back East. This is Wet Suit Country.

SAILING IS THE GREATEST!

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

It must be naivity, since I've never engaged in illegal chartering.

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Well, I'm a bit naive I guess.

Naive .... or still engaging in illegal chartering?

You know the address to send complaints to.


Regards


Donal
--




"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter
companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
It must be naivity, since I've never engaged in illegal chartering.

I knew that you hadn't!

I assumed that either you *are* qualified, or (more likely) that nobody had
ever gone out on one of your charter weekends!


Regards


Donal
--

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

One should never assume, but you're right.

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
It must be naivity, since I've never engaged in illegal chartering.

I knew that you hadn't!

I assumed that either you *are* qualified, or (more likely) that nobody
had
ever gone out on one of your charter weekends!


Regards


Donal
--

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Neal would do fine in San Francisco and
enjoy getting some extra polish on his
skills.

Anyone would learn something every day
they sailed on San Francisco Bay.

Sailing regularly in heavy winds is
invaluable experience. Also, it's
better to get comfortable in high winds,
before that plus huge combined seas.

People freak out in relation to their
experience level.

If you have seen 65 knot winds, then 45
knots is no sweat.

People who have only seen 10 knots, get
nervous and start whinning at 15-20 knots,
and progressively freak out to the point
of being useless as conditions build.

Sailing in San Francisco's worst chop,
in a J-24 is something you can scale
up when you sail bigger boats on the
ocean. Small boats make the sailor!

Having situational awareness is another
confidence booster. Experienced sailors
recognize what the weather is doing--if
it's veering or backing, building or not.
If you know what is going on, then you
will be calm and able to keep other people
calm.

Experiece is the difference between
being "cool" or uncomfortable when things
get really nasty.

San Francisco can not be beat as the best
venue to improve sailing skills because it
has the best wind and the best sport sailing
in the world.

Bart Senior

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

I don't know about the sails. I do know Neal wouldn't last 10 minutes.

"Thom Stewart" wrote

Hey Craz,

I don't believe your Hong Kong Sails would last a season on SF Bay. It
is a great, ruget sailing area. A place where sailor and equipment are
put to the full test often.

Ole Thom

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Hey Thom!

Why don't you give us a run down of sailing in
your area? Start a new thread.

Bart

SF Bay area sailing vs. New England
 

Swimming skills for sure. :-)

Reminds me of when I first started sailing in the north bay...
Took out a Santana 22 with an instructor from Spinnaker
Sailing in SF (good instructor, a lousy collection of boats)
and two other students.

Chop was at least 4 foot, wind was over 20kts. We did
MOBs for 2 hours straight. I had just about had it, almost
puked, almost gave up sailing, but I figured I'd try it one
more time. Still learning for sure.

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
Neal would do fine in San Francisco and
enjoy getting some extra polish on his
skills.

Anyone would learn something every day
they sailed on San Francisco Bay.

Sailing regularly in heavy winds is
invaluable experience. Also, it's
better to get comfortable in high winds,
before that plus huge combined seas.

People freak out in relation to their
experience level.

If you have seen 65 knot winds, then 45
knots is no sweat.

People who have only seen 10 knots, get
nervous and start whinning at 15-20 knots,
and progressively freak out to the point
of being useless as conditions build.

Sailing in San Francisco's worst chop,
in a J-24 is something you can scale
up when you sail bigger boats on the
ocean. Small boats make the sailor!

Having situational awareness is another
confidence booster. Experienced sailors
recognize what the weather is doing--if
it's veering or backing, building or not.
If you know what is going on, then you
will be calm and able to keep other people
calm.

Experiece is the difference between
being "cool" or uncomfortable when things
get really nasty.

San Francisco can not be beat as the best
venue to improve sailing skills because it
has the best wind and the best sport sailing
in the world.

Bart Senior

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

I don't know about the sails. I do know Neal wouldn't last 10 minutes.

"Thom Stewart" wrote

Hey Craz,

I don't believe your Hong Kong Sails would last a season on SF Bay. It
is a great, ruget sailing area. A place where sailor and equipment are
put to the full test often.

Ole Thom