....and before everyone goes off half-cocked (gunwise...), it's a =
joke....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

"katysails" wrote in message
...
....and before everyone goes off half-cocked (gunwise...), it's a joke....

Sorry Katy but I fail to see the humor. MDs' "medical misadventures" kill at
least the 125,000 you mention (some put it at 2 or 3x that) but nobody even
notices.

To put a face on one of these "misadventures", a famous lady motorcycle
rider suffered a minor concussion in a crash that left her BMW unrideable so
she opted to stay in the hospital overnight. Her husband arrived and they
visited several hours, planning to head for home in th morning. But next
morning she was dead!! Seems somebody gave her an injection meant for a
different patient .....

Can you imagine the hubub if .... oh well.

No intent to pick on you Katy but US medicine is in a sorry state and we're
too busy worrying about drug dealers shooting each other to even notice.

Oz,

We, here in the USA, have had two Doctor Strikes in my lifetime. Both
times that the Dr was on strike the mortality rate went down!!

Katy may have hit on somethingG

Ole Thom

Vito Steockli wrote:


Sorry Katy but I fail to see the humor. MDs' "medical misadventures" kill at
least the 125,000 you mention (some put it at 2 or 3x that) but nobody even
notices.

I'd hardly say that 'nobody botices.' But if you genuinely believe that doctors
kill that many people, don't go to one.



To put a face on one of these "misadventures", a famous lady motorcycle
rider suffered a minor concussion in a crash that left her BMW unrideable so
she opted to stay in the hospital overnight. Her husband arrived and they
visited several hours, planning to head for home in th morning. But next
morning she was dead!! Seems somebody gave her an injection meant for a
different patient .....

Can you imagine the hubub if .... oh well.

I can imagine there was a LOT of hubbub over a case like that.

Aside from that tragic mistake, doctors don't usually give people shots. Nurses
or increasingly in this economic climates, half-trained aids, give shots.



No intent to pick on you Katy but US medicine is in a sorry state and we're
too busy worrying about drug dealers shooting each other to even notice.

That must be why everybody who can afford it comes to American hospitals for
major operations.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Vito Steockli wrote:


Sorry Katy but I fail to see the humor. MDs' "medical misadventures"
kill at
least the 125,000 you mention (some put it at 2 or 3x that) but nobody
even
notices.

I'd hardly say that 'nobody botices.' But if you genuinely believe that
doctors
kill that many people, don't go to one.

It isn't what I, or anybody else "believes" it is a fact; to "believe"
otherwise is like believing that the whole world was once flooded for a
month. Nor is your solution practical. The cost of care is so exorbitant
that we should expect and demand "zero defects".



To put a face on one of these "misadventures", a famous lady motorcycle
rider suffered a minor concussion in a crash that left her BMW
unrideable so
she opted to stay in the hospital overnight. Her husband arrived and
they
visited several hours, planning to head for home in th morning. But next
morning she was dead!! Seems somebody gave her an injection meant for a
different patient .....

Can you imagine the hubub if .... oh well.

I can imagine there was a LOT of hubbub over a case like that.

Aside from that tragic mistake, doctors don't usually give people shots.
Nurses
or increasingly in this economic climates, half-trained aids, give shots.



No intent to pick on you Katy but US medicine is in a sorry state and
we're
too busy worrying about drug dealers shooting each other to even notice.

That must be why everybody who can afford it comes to American hospitals
for
major operations.

DSK

Vito Steockli wrote:


It isn't what I, or anybody else "believes" it is a fact; to "believe"
otherwise is like believing that the whole world was once flooded for a
month.

If it was, then such a belief would be correct, wouldn't it?


Nor is your solution practical.

About not going to a doctor? Sure it's practical, it savves a lot of time &
money and for somebody with your 'beliefs' (oops there's that word again) it
should seem a lot safer.


The cost of care is so exorbitant
that we should expect and demand "zero defects".

Sorry, we live in an imperfect world. When you can absolutely guarantee that you
yourself never make any single mistake, no matter how small, then you can demand
that of others. Also remember that between 60% and 99% of the cost of your
medical care comes out of somebody elses pocket... and there ain't no such thing
as a free lunch.

Meantime, why don't you try going to a lawyer when you feel sick? He can sue the
germs for you, that would be error-free and possibly cheaper.

DSK

"DSK" wrot

If it was, then such a belief would be correct, wouldn't it?

A belief is based on incomplete sometimes erroneous info even tho it may be
true. A fact is not.


About not going to a doctor? Sure it's practical,....

It would be if we were allowed to treat ourselves but we are not, at least
not in the USA. I need a couple simple compounds to stay alive. The only
legal way I can get them is by obtaining a MD's permission. Ergo it is
impractical for me to avoid seeing an MD regularly.

... When you can absolutely guarantee that you yourself never make any
single mistake, ...

First, we're not talking about "never" or "single mistakes" or even minor
mistakes, we're talking about over 125,000 people being killed every year.
Second, if I were being paid MD's wages I'd expect to be at least as error
free as say the early space program. A nonsupervisory PhD scientist gets
paid $120/yr by our rich uncle Sam whilst most MDs think themselves
underpaid if they earn less than 10X that. Of course MDs pay high liability
insurance premiums. So do male teen drivers - for the same reason.

.... Also remember that between 60% and 99% of the cost of your
medical care comes out of somebody elses pocket...

Smoke and mirrors! When I bid on a cost plus contract I include medical
benefits as part of wages, then add overhead and finally profit. I could
give that money to the workers without changing profit but could not legally
keep it as profit. The company is simply a middle man distributing part of
each workers' earnings to some medical insurer.

Enjoy your turkey.

Vito Steockli wrote:


A belief is based on incomplete sometimes erroneous info even tho it may be
true. A fact is not.

Yep.

And some peoples 'facts' are, in fact, just beliefs.


... not going to a doctor? Sure it's practical,....

It would be if we were allowed to treat ourselves but we are not, at least
not in the USA. I need a couple simple compounds to stay alive. The only
legal way I can get them is by obtaining a MD's permission. Ergo it is
impractical for me to avoid seeing an MD regularly.

Ah, well, but that's just you. Seems to me there are several ways around this,
not the least of which is to see what heppens when you go without these
'compounds.' You haven't died yet, I assume, so how do you know for sure?



.... we're talking about over 125,000 people being killed

I suggest you consider what you mean by 'being killed.'

AFAIK no doctor has ever killed anybody. Regrettably, it is all to common for
doctors to fail to save people from fatal diseases & conditions. That's not the
doctors fault.


.... if I were being paid MD's wages I'd expect to be at least as error
free as say the early space program. A nonsupervisory PhD scientist gets
paid $120/yr by our rich uncle Sam whilst most MDs think themselves
underpaid if they earn less than 10X that.

And many of them have hundreds of thousands of doallars of debt they undertook
to get through medical school, too.

So, is your resentment against doctors based on the belief that they're rich and
you're not? That's just plain Bolshevism. Says far more about you than about
them.

Of course, some doctors *are* rich. And of the ones who are, some have worked
incredibly hard to earn it. In any event, if you resent paying a doctor lots of
money, and doubt the doctors ability to cure you, then don't go to one. It's
just the same as not buying a boat you don't like.



.... Also remember that between 60% and 99% of the cost of your
medical care comes out of somebody elses pocket...

Smoke and mirrors!

No, it isn't.


When I bid on a cost plus contract I include medical
benefits as part of wages, then add overhead and finally profit. I could
give that money to the workers without changing profit but could not legally
keep it as profit. The company is simply a middle man distributing part of
each workers' earnings to some medical insurer.

And this isn't 'smoke & mirrors'? Has nothing to do with who pays your doctor
bills.

If your doctor handed you a bill for all services he (and his staff) rendered,
then you'd be paying your doctor bill (and it would cost a lot less). But you
don't. Instead you give a long song & dance proving nothing.

Bottom line- the money to pay for your medical care comes out of a lot of
different pockets, but you do NOT pay most of your own doctor bills. Period.




Enjoy your turkey.

Thanks, hope you enjoyed yours.

DSK