Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Why is Hiscock more reliable than the Vessel Documentation Center?

And where do you see and deck structures included? There are none in the links I provide.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
I've not made anything up. Eric Hiscock is a reputable source.

'Sides your own link proves me right. It shows depth being
measured in the structure on deck.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote:
Negative, I used the diagrams provided by Sea School

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Sea School!!!

They probably gave you a very rough approximation for measurement of ships.

When are you going to learn you can't just make this stuff up?

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

The fact of the matter is they do not know what they
want. They don't even bother to check the measurements.
They just make suggestions as to how to proceed with
the measurements and pretty much take what they are
given.

S.Simon


wrote in message ...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:48:50 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote:



Nope, you are wrong. Say the 'deck' has two feet of camber. How does
one ignore this two feet when measuring depth since depth is measured
in the center athwartship?

The 'tun' wording is a direct quote from the book. I certainly feel
Hiscock is a more credible source than ANYONE here - no offense
intended to present company, of course.

You once more confuse apples and oranges. Tonnage for documentation
purposes has little to do with displacement. It is a measure of volume.


And what you "think" should be included or not included means nothing
whatsoever. The Coast Guard is not going to debate this with you. They don't
care if you have decks with a positive, or negative camber, or anything else.
They state very clearly what THEY want. Give them what they want, or be wrong.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

There's a rule somewhere in 46USC that implies that you can only use the simplified
measurement if it doesn't really matter. I assume that means that inspected vessels
need the proper measurement.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The fact of the matter is they do not know what they
want. They don't even bother to check the measurements.
They just make suggestions as to how to proceed with
the measurements and pretty much take what they are
given.

S.Simon


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:48:50 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote:



Nope, you are wrong. Say the 'deck' has two feet of camber. How does
one ignore this two feet when measuring depth since depth is measured
in the center athwartship?

The 'tun' wording is a direct quote from the book. I certainly feel
Hiscock is a more credible source than ANYONE here - no offense
intended to present company, of course.

You once more confuse apples and oranges. Tonnage for documentation
purposes has little to do with displacement. It is a measure of volume.


And what you "think" should be included or not included means nothing
whatsoever. The Coast Guard is not going to debate this with you. They don't
care if you have decks with a positive, or negative camber, or anything else.
They state very clearly what THEY want. Give them what they want, or be wrong.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

I'm not making it up. It's on the form on the link you posted.

On form DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION
U.S. COAST GUARD
CG-5397 (Rev 12-00)

Look on the right side towards the top. It shows what looks
like a line drawing of a house boat with the "D" measured
on the structure which sits atop the hull.

heres your link again. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
Sorry Neal, the proper definition that I keep repeating ("excluding ... coach") comes from
that form. You have to get the download version because it isn't on the interactive
version.

And besides, none of the pictures include a deck structure, they all measure depth down
from the deck at the gunwale. You're just making this stuff up, aren't you?



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Now, that definition of depth is more correct.

Look at the illustration of the little boat.

It ignores the hull plating or skin and includes
the house on deck (structure)- just like I said it should.

There is a different measurement for ships and
yachts and this link looks to be for yachts.

Bobsprit's depth is clearly more than five feet.

Just like I said . . .

S.Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Then why not use the real simplified link:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

Its clear that the link you provide is far beyond Neal's capabilities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it only
goes
up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet. My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

8450 AUSTIN ST APT 4K

I'd be trying to get out of that 4th floor walk up before I'd invest in a
bigger boat.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Using the simplified measurement for my vessel I got five tons
which is about double the displacement.

S.Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
The Simplified Measurement system described in my link (and BB's) is optional and rather
generous. I believe it yields numbers much higher than what would be determined by a more
formal, traditional measurement.

It essentially takes half the volume of a box that includes the deck down to the keel.
You can argue about camber, but the simplified measurement probably doubles the
appropriate number for your "vessel".


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


The definition is incorrect. It does not account for
deck camber for one thing. It cannot measure the
internal volume correctly.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I repeat, here's the official definition of "depth":

DEPTH (D) is the vertical distance taken at or near amidships from a line drawn
horizontally through the uppermost edges of the skin (outside planking or plating) at
the
sides of the hull (excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins and deckhouses, and deck
caps)
to the outboard face of the bottom skin of the hull, excluding the keel.

What part of "excluding the cap rail, trunks, cabins, and deckhouses" is unclear to
you?

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
That doesn't change the definition of depth.

The measure of depth is as I stated above and it includes
the house or raised deck or a yacht. I ragged on Booby
for having the incorrect depth listed on the documentation.

It is still incorrect on the documentation.


S.Simon


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did
not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the
measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it
only
goes up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet.
My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot
Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Geez, don't you read your own links.

Look at form
DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION
U.S. COAST GUARD
CG-5397 (Rev 12-00)

Link: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

S. Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
Why is Hiscock more reliable than the Vessel Documentation Center?

And where do you see and deck structures included? There are none in the links I provide.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
I've not made anything up. Eric Hiscock is a reputable source.

'Sides your own link proves me right. It shows depth being
measured in the structure on deck.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote:
Negative, I used the diagrams provided by Sea School

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Sea School!!!

They probably gave you a very rough approximation for measurement of ships.

When are you going to learn you can't just make this stuff up?

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Do you mean the section where it says:

"(Complete only if the volume of the principal deckhouse, cabin or similar structure above
the main deck exceeds the hull volume)"

And then they show a barge with a large deckhouse? Are you claiming your tiny coachroof
(or RB's) exceeds the volume of the main hull? Are you demented?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


I'm not making it up. It's on the form on the link you posted.

On form DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION
U.S. COAST GUARD
CG-5397 (Rev 12-00)

Look on the right side towards the top. It shows what looks
like a line drawing of a house boat with the "D" measured
on the structure which sits atop the hull.

heres your link again. http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Sorry Neal, the proper definition that I keep repeating ("excluding ... coach") comes
from
that form. You have to get the download version because it isn't on the interactive
version.

And besides, none of the pictures include a deck structure, they all measure depth
down
from the deck at the gunwale. You're just making this stuff up, aren't you?



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Now, that definition of depth is more correct.

Look at the illustration of the little boat.

It ignores the hull plating or skin and includes
the house on deck (structure)- just like I said it should.

There is a different measurement for ships and
yachts and this link looks to be for yachts.

Bobsprit's depth is clearly more than five feet.

Just like I said . . .

S.Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Then why not use the real simplified link:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

Its clear that the link you provide is far beyond Neal's capabilities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic indicated you did
not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the link to the
measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the coachroof, it
only
goes
up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be listed at 5 feet.
My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as having a 5.6 foot
Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Do you mean the section where it says:

"(Complete only if the volume of the principal deckhouse, cabin or similar structure above
the main deck exceeds the hull volume)"

You're soft as puppy ****, Neal.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Geez, don't you read your own links.

Look at form
DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION
U.S. COAST GUARD
CG-5397 (Rev 12-00)

Link: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

S. Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Why is Hiscock more reliable than the Vessel Documentation Center?

And where do you see and deck structures included? There are none in the links I
provide.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
I've not made anything up. Eric Hiscock is a reputable source.

'Sides your own link proves me right. It shows depth being
measured in the structure on deck.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Simple Simon" wrote:
Negative, I used the diagrams provided by Sea School

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Sea School!!!

They probably gave you a very rough approximation for measurement of ships.

When are you going to learn you can't just make this stuff up?

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Bill,

The rule states a HORIZONTAL line. It makes no mention off a curved
line.

OT

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Dear Thom,

FYI:
Tonnage: I. Charge, duty, or payment of so much per tun or ton.

1. Eng. Hist. A tax or duty formerly levied upon wine imported in
tuns or casks, at the rate of so much for every tun. Commonly in
association with poundage: see POUNDAGE n.1 1.
By some historical writers and in some dictionaries written tunnage
for distinction's sake, and to emphasize the connexion with TUN n.; but
tonnage is the more usual form.
Tonnage and poundage were first levied in the 14th c., and were
granted for life to several sovereigns, beginning with Edward IV. They
were abolished by 27 Geo. III c. 13, in 1787.


Cheers MC

Thom Stewart wrote:
Simple,

Boy, are you full of ****! Tonnage is taken from "TON" get lost with
your Tun BS

Hiscock is a good authority. By your own quote; "Depth is an internal
measurement taken from the deck ( that Part of the boat connected to the
Gunnel, that you walk on going around the cabin to get to your stupid
hanked on sails) at mid ship to the top of the keel!!! Probably around
5 ft on your craft. What the Hell is so hard to understand about that?

Displacement; minus engine, shaft, mountings, bulkheads and etc that
water cannot displace, leaves the rest of the volume to be calculated
and converted to the weight of WATER!! Go drink your damn wine, it has
nothing to do with displacement

Now, if you want to further demonstrate you ignorance, refute this
statement. That will be the last word. I'll not get into a yes it is, no
it isn't with you.

So. UP YOURS !!! AND "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!"

Ole Thom

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

After someone posts his addy on the net (SUZANNE L MILLER ,8450 AUSTIN ST
APT 4K ,KEW GARDENS, NY 11415) he then announces that no one will be home
tonight?

Smarter than you. I only said "I" wouldn't be home!

RB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

It seems to me I remember you posting that you had a House. Are you
saying now that your house is an Apartment building in KEW GARDENS?

Thom, I own a house in Brooklyn, but I rent it out. I've mentioned this before.
Good troll.

RB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Thanks Bill, now I know where to send that 'special package'.

Not even your wife thinks you have a special package.

RB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Rhetorical questions are redundant.

--
Oz1...twin of the 3 twins
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Do you mean the section where it says:

"(Complete only if the volume of the principal deckhouse, cabin or similar
structure above
the main deck exceeds the hull volume)"

And then they show a barge with a large deckhouse? Are you claiming your
tiny coachroof
(or RB's) exceeds the volume of the main hull? Are you demented?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


I'm not making it up. It's on the form on the link you posted.

On form DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION
U.S. COAST GUARD
CG-5397 (Rev 12-00)

Look on the right side towards the top. It shows what looks
like a line drawing of a house boat with the "D" measured
on the structure which sits atop the hull.

heres your link again.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Sorry Neal, the proper definition that I keep repeating ("excluding
.... coach") comes
from
that form. You have to get the download version because it isn't on
the interactive
version.

And besides, none of the pictures include a deck structure, they all
measure depth
down
from the deck at the gunwale. You're just making this stuff up,
aren't you?



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Now, that definition of depth is more correct.

Look at the illustration of the little boat.

It ignores the hull plating or skin and includes
the house on deck (structure)- just like I said it should.

There is a different measurement for ships and
yachts and this link looks to be for yachts.

Bobsprit's depth is clearly more than five feet.

Just like I said . . .

S.Simon

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Then why not use the real simplified link:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/t3/cg5397/cg5397.form.htm

Its clear that the link you provide is far beyond Neal's
capabilities.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:17:08 -0500, "Jeff Morris"
wrote:

A fair explanation, but your first several posts on the topic
indicated you did
not
understand the measurement. It was only after I posted the
link to the
measurement
that
you started to get it close to right.

Modern measurement of tonnage does not generally measure to the
coachroof, it
only
goes
up
to the deck. Thus, a vessel with full headroom might only be
listed at 5 feet.
My
old
Nonsuch, with generous headroom ( 6.5 feet ?) is listed as
having a 5.6 foot
Depth.


Here is all that matters when measuring for purpose of
documentation, including
diagrams for the terminally stupid, who don't have a good grasp
of English.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/msc/T3/SIMP_formula_infosht.pdf

What anybody "thinks" doesn't count. This is what the ruling
authority says you
MUST do to comply with the law.

BB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

Not even your wife thinks you have a special package.

RB

Yeah, but Suzanne will be astounded!


Yeah...after me everything seems underhung!

Hoooh ahhhhh!

RB

Bobsprit has no boat!
 

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Is this the right address?

SUZANNE L MILLER
8450 AUSTIN ST APT 4K
KEW GARDENS, NY 11415

will there be hor de hors?

Scotty

wrote

Party at Bob's house tonight. If you don't know how to get there, you
can get a map and driving directions at MapQuest.com.

BB