The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across. The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal. The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Simple Simon wrote:

The cone makes you a motor boat.

If I wear a fake alien mask, does that make me an alien?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Simple Simon wrote:

I continue to embarrass myself ...

I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

News for you Nil, the COLREGS aren't part of the licensing structure.

You got a sail endorsement? No? You ain't a sailboat captain then.

Geez, it's always been obvious you are not too swift when it comes to
maritime operations, procedures, and law but you continue to amaze me by
stretching the boundaries of your own stupidity.

I am Master of an aux/sailboat ...

Bwahahahahahahahaaha What a moron. Tell the guys at the REC, maybe they
will change your ticket to aux/sail once you set them straight.

Bwahahahahahahahaha What a moron.

Rick

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Aliens are not defined by the COLREGS like motor vessels
and sail boats are. Your question is non sequitur.

Under the COLREGS, vessels are identified by lights and
shapes. A vessel showing three red lights in vertical row, for
example identifies itself as a CBD. A vessel showing a
red/white/red in a row one atop the other is a RAM and
so on.

In the same manner, an aux/sailboat showing a steaming light
by night and a cone by day identifies itself as a motorboat. It
matters not if the sails are providing the propulsion. As long as
there is machinery operating it's legally a motorboat according
to the Rules.

Why is this simple fact so hard for you knuckle heads to grasp?

S.Simon


"Wally" wrote in message ...
Simple Simon wrote:

The cone makes you a motor boat.

If I wear a fake alien mask, does that make me an alien?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Simple Simon wrote:

In the same manner, an aux/sailboat showing a steaming light
by night and a cone by day identifies itself as a motorboat. It
matters not if the sails are providing the propulsion. As long as
there is machinery operating it's legally a motorboat according
to the Rules.

Then it isn't the cone that makes it a motorboat, but the motor. Were one to
argue otherwise, then putting a cone on a pure sailboat would turn it into a
motorboat.


Why is this simple fact so hard for you knuckle heads to grasp?

I'm not a knucklehead, I'm an alien, and I have the rubber mask to prove it.


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Simple Simon whiningly begged:

Why is this simple fact so hard for me to grasp?

Because you are inherently, irretrievably, hopelessly and terminally
stupid.

You are so ignorant as to be a hazard to navigation and made to notify
the Coast Guard so they can issue a Notice To Mariners and a Marine
Safety Broadcast whenever you slip your mooring.

Rick

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

But the COLREGS do set the rules for what a vessel is defined as. Motor vessel and
sail vessel are but two of the definitions given.

Rule 3

General Definitions

For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise requires:

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.

(b) The term "power driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.

(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.

(e) The term "seaplane" includes any aircraft designed to maneuver



A sailing endorsement is only necessary for a sailing vessel.

S.Simon





"Rick" wrote in message ink.net...
Simple Simon wrote:

I continue to embarrass myself ...

I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

News for you Nil, the COLREGS aren't part of the licensing structure.

You got a sail endorsement? No? You ain't a sailboat captain then.

Geez, it's always been obvious you are not too swift when it comes to
maritime operations, procedures, and law but you continue to amaze me by
stretching the boundaries of your own stupidity.

I am Master of an aux/sailboat ...

Bwahahahahahahahaaha What a moron. Tell the guys at the REC, maybe they
will change your ticket to aux/sail once you set them straight.

Bwahahahahahahahaha What a moron.

Rick

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

You're using a ColRegs definition of sail and power. This is simply not relevant to the
licensing issue. There is nothing that ties the two together.

However, 46CFR, which governs the licensing, says that it derives many of its basic
definitions (or "includes by reference") from the ABYC standards. In there, it defines
"Sail" as "Sail includes sailboats which may have a small outboard engine for auxiliary
power." "Auxiliary Sail" refers to sailboats which have an inboard engine.

46CFR is quite clear on the requirements for a "sail" and "auxiliary sail" endorsement,
and the need to have the appropriate endorsement to be a master on these types of vessels.
There is no mention of whether the sail or engine is used, only the type of boat.
Clearly, to be a Master of a Sailboat, you must have the sail endorsement. Even if you
never raise the sail and power all day on the outboard, while you may be a "power vessel"
from the point of view of the ColRegs, but you're a sailboat according to 46 CFR, and you
need the endorsement.
--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert Einstein




"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across. The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal. The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

I disagree. You cannot have two conflicting sets of rules and
expect to make any sense out of them. There is only one legal
definition of a sailing vessel underway and that is the one
in the COLREGS as long as said vessel is operating in waters
covered by the COLREGS.

The other definition only covers those areas not covered by
the COLREGS.

Lord!

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
You're using a ColRegs definition of sail and power. This is simply not relevant to the
licensing issue. There is nothing that ties the two together.

However, 46CFR, which governs the licensing, says that it derives many of its basic
definitions (or "includes by reference") from the ABYC standards. In there, it defines
"Sail" as "Sail includes sailboats which may have a small outboard engine for auxiliary
power." "Auxiliary Sail" refers to sailboats which have an inboard engine.

46CFR is quite clear on the requirements for a "sail" and "auxiliary sail" endorsement,
and the need to have the appropriate endorsement to be a master on these types of vessels.
There is no mention of whether the sail or engine is used, only the type of boat.
Clearly, to be a Master of a Sailboat, you must have the sail endorsement. Even if you
never raise the sail and power all day on the outboard, while you may be a "power vessel"
from the point of view of the ColRegs, but you're a sailboat according to 46 CFR, and you
need the endorsement.
--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert Einstein




"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across. The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal. The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

OK, Neal, I'll bite and reply to this bit of ignorance .... comments
interspersed:


Simple Simon wrote:

All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

The definition of COLREGS regarding motorboats and USCG regarding
powerdriven/aux-sail/sail for license purposes, are two different animals.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

Low and behold, we can agree on something .... as long as it is being
propelled by that motor.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Wrong. If the vessel's construction and function, is a aux - sail boat,
then he must have a sailing endorsement, to cover the boats main
construction/function. If you remove the mast and only proceed underway
on power, then you are fine.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across.

Typically wrong ... considered and is, are two different things.

The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal.

Typically wrong

The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Sorry, but typically you are trying to join the USCG licensing with the
COLREGS. One has nothing to do with the other.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

That's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Typically wrong, but in truth, I could care less. If you want to work
under that false assumption, have at it. If the day should come, that
you should get caught and end up in court, I will sit back and enjoy a
great belly laugh, at your expense.
I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again .... you're a phony
wannabe, not worthy of anyone's respect, where licenses and maritime
knowledge are concerned.


Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

ROFLMAO Neal, I've probably forgotten more basic seamanship, than you'll
ever learn (EG I can see a stupid Neal post coming) ... as for test
..... any monkey can be trained to pass a test .... it's what they do
AFTER they pass the test, that counts.

Neal ... what's "bung up and bilge free"?

otn

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Simple Simon wrote:

But the COLREGS do set the rules for what a vessel is defined as.

This must be the "I really meant something else" backpedal several
others were saying you would resort to when you got cornered and panicky.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with COLREGS, Nil, please try real
hard and remember that. Tie a string on your finer if it will help. The
validity of your license has nothing to do with COLREGS. Now try saying
that out loud and maybe it will sink in.

Keep backpedaling Nil, you are doing a better job of making *you* look
like a wannabe moron than I could ever hope to do. All you gotta do is
type and your real nautical skills float up from the wreckage of your
years of boasting ...

Bwhahahahahahahahahaahah Professional dinghy driver wannabe ...

Are you sure you aren't really Jax?

Bon Voyage,

Rick

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Don't worry about me. I'm plenty intelligent to take care of
myself.

You're entitled to your opinions - limited in scope though
they often are - so I'll allow then to stand or fall on
their own merit.

Every seaman knows what bung up and bilge free means.

It was derived from the practice of storing wooden barrels
with the bung up and stacked free of any bilge water.

Nowadays it means 'Alright'.

How are you doing Captain? Oh, I'm bung up and bilge free!

S.Simon - knows more than anyone thinks and learns by
living the life of a sailor not some lubberly
homebody.


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
OK, Neal, I'll bite and reply to this bit of ignorance .... comments
interspersed:


Simple Simon wrote:

All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

The definition of COLREGS regarding motorboats and USCG regarding
powerdriven/aux-sail/sail for license purposes, are two different animals.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

Low and behold, we can agree on something .... as long as it is being
propelled by that motor.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Wrong. If the vessel's construction and function, is a aux - sail boat,
then he must have a sailing endorsement, to cover the boats main
construction/function. If you remove the mast and only proceed underway
on power, then you are fine.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across.

Typically wrong ... considered and is, are two different things.

The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal.

Typically wrong

The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Sorry, but typically you are trying to join the USCG licensing with the
COLREGS. One has nothing to do with the other.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

That's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Typically wrong, but in truth, I could care less. If you want to work
under that false assumption, have at it. If the day should come, that
you should get caught and end up in court, I will sit back and enjoy a
great belly laugh, at your expense.
I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again .... you're a phony
wannabe, not worthy of anyone's respect, where licenses and maritime
knowledge are concerned.


Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

ROFLMAO Neal, I've probably forgotten more basic seamanship, than you'll
ever learn (EG I can see a stupid Neal post coming) ... as for test
.... any monkey can be trained to pass a test .... it's what they do
AFTER they pass the test, that counts.

Neal ... what's "bung up and bilge free"?

otn

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

"Simple Simon" wrote:
I disagree. You cannot have two conflicting sets of rules and
expect to make any sense out of them.

Why not? One set of rules is Collision Regualtions, or "Right-of-Way Rules" in the
common parlance. There is no mention in them licenses. The other set governs licenses -
the requirements to obtain them, and what they permit you to do. You are not licensed
Master for your boat.

The two sets of rules cover totally different domains. There is no "conflict" between
them

There is only one legal
definition of a sailing vessel underway and that is the one
in the COLREGS as long as said vessel is operating in waters
covered by the COLREGS.

no. there are many definitions, for many purposes.


The other definition only covers those areas not covered by
the COLREGS.

Lord!

I have spoken.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Simple Simon wrote:

There are sets of rules and I cannot make any sense out of them.

You finally got something right.

There is only one legal definition of a sailing vessel underway
and that is the one in the COLREGS as long as said vessel is
operating in waters covered by the COLREGS.

One more great example of Nil's "I really really did mean something
else" backpedal. Wake up Nil, we aren't talking about the COLREGS, we
are talking about how phony you are.

You lost the COLREGS argument anyway so it might be better if you lay
low on that one too.

I think one of my fellow professional mariners summed it up pretty well:

"I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again .... you're a phony
wannabe, not worthy of anyone's respect, where licenses and maritime
knowledge are concerned."

Bwahahahahahahahaahahah COLREGS backpedal indeed Bwhahahahahahahaaha

Time to play sailboater and try another tack ... Bwhahahahahahahaah

Rick

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

We have no problem grasping the difference between a motorboat and a
sailboat. YOU, on the other hand, have a total problem with the
difference between COLREGS and licensing.

otn


Simple Simon wrote:

Aliens are not defined by the COLREGS like motor vessels
and sail boats are. Your question is non sequitur.

Under the COLREGS, vessels are identified by lights and
shapes. A vessel showing three red lights in vertical row, for
example identifies itself as a CBD. A vessel showing a
red/white/red in a row one atop the other is a RAM and
so on.

In the same manner, an aux/sailboat showing a steaming light
by night and a cone by day identifies itself as a motorboat. It
matters not if the sails are providing the propulsion. As long as
there is machinery operating it's legally a motorboat according
to the Rules.

Why is this simple fact so hard for you knuckle heads to grasp?

S.Simon


"Wally" wrote in message ...

Simple Simon wrote:


The cone makes you a motor boat.

If I wear a fake alien mask, does that make me an alien?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Wake up and smell the coffee, dipchit !!! COLREGS are one thing
......USCG requirements are another.
If you're too stupid to realize that, you are too stupid to hold ANY
kind of license, for any kind of vessel.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

I disagree. You cannot have two conflicting sets of rules and
expect to make any sense out of them. There is only one legal
definition of a sailing vessel underway and that is the one
in the COLREGS as long as said vessel is operating in waters
covered by the COLREGS.

The other definition only covers those areas not covered by
the COLREGS.

Lord!

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...

You're using a ColRegs definition of sail and power. This is simply not relevant to the
licensing issue. There is nothing that ties the two together.

However, 46CFR, which governs the licensing, says that it derives many of its basic
definitions (or "includes by reference") from the ABYC standards. In there, it defines
"Sail" as "Sail includes sailboats which may have a small outboard engine for auxiliary
power." "Auxiliary Sail" refers to sailboats which have an inboard engine.

46CFR is quite clear on the requirements for a "sail" and "auxiliary sail" endorsement,
and the need to have the appropriate endorsement to be a master on these types of vessels.
There is no mention of whether the sail or engine is used, only the type of boat.
Clearly, to be a Master of a Sailboat, you must have the sail endorsement. Even if you
never raise the sail and power all day on the outboard, while you may be a "power vessel"
from the point of view of the ColRegs, but you're a sailboat according to 46 CFR, and you
need the endorsement.
--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert Einstein




"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across. The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal. The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

One is licensed so one can operate the various types of vessels
defined in the COLREGS. That makes the COLREGS an integral
part of the use of said licenses. One is tested on one's knowledge
of the COLREGS and NOT on some other set of Rules or regulations.

Don't try to tell me the COLREGS have nothing to do with licenses.
The COLREGS have everything to do with licenses. License endorsements
such as a sail endorsement are based on testing for knowledge in
those areas but the tests still rely in large part on knowledge of
the COLREGS.

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
We have no problem grasping the difference between a motorboat and a
sailboat. YOU, on the other hand, have a total problem with the
difference between COLREGS and licensing.

otn


Simple Simon wrote:

Aliens are not defined by the COLREGS like motor vessels
and sail boats are. Your question is non sequitur.

Under the COLREGS, vessels are identified by lights and
shapes. A vessel showing three red lights in vertical row, for
example identifies itself as a CBD. A vessel showing a
red/white/red in a row one atop the other is a RAM and
so on.

In the same manner, an aux/sailboat showing a steaming light
by night and a cone by day identifies itself as a motorboat. It
matters not if the sails are providing the propulsion. As long as
there is machinery operating it's legally a motorboat according
to the Rules.

Why is this simple fact so hard for you knuckle heads to grasp?

S.Simon


"Wally" wrote in message ...

Simple Simon wrote:


The cone makes you a motor boat.

If I wear a fake alien mask, does that make me an alien?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

You wake up and smell the coffee yourself. Licensing is
based on knowledge of the COLREGS and not on knowledge
of USCG licensing requirements.

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
Wake up and smell the coffee, dipchit !!! COLREGS are one thing
.....USCG requirements are another.
If you're too stupid to realize that, you are too stupid to hold ANY
kind of license, for any kind of vessel.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

I disagree. You cannot have two conflicting sets of rules and
expect to make any sense out of them. There is only one legal
definition of a sailing vessel underway and that is the one
in the COLREGS as long as said vessel is operating in waters
covered by the COLREGS.

The other definition only covers those areas not covered by
the COLREGS.

Lord!

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...

You're using a ColRegs definition of sail and power. This is simply not relevant to the
licensing issue. There is nothing that ties the two together.

However, 46CFR, which governs the licensing, says that it derives many of its basic
definitions (or "includes by reference") from the ABYC standards. In there, it defines
"Sail" as "Sail includes sailboats which may have a small outboard engine for auxiliary
power." "Auxiliary Sail" refers to sailboats which have an inboard engine.

46CFR is quite clear on the requirements for a "sail" and "auxiliary sail" endorsement,
and the need to have the appropriate endorsement to be a master on these types of vessels.
There is no mention of whether the sail or engine is used, only the type of boat.
Clearly, to be a Master of a Sailboat, you must have the sail endorsement. Even if you
never raise the sail and power all day on the outboard, while you may be a "power vessel"
from the point of view of the ColRegs, but you're a sailboat according to 46 CFR, and you
need the endorsement.
--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert Einstein




"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across. The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal. The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
One is licensed so one can operate the various types of vessels
defined in the COLREGS. That makes the COLREGS an integral
part of the use of said licenses.

This comment is so far off that it casts serious doubt on whether you actually hold a
license. Licenses are issued for various classes of boats listed in 46CFR, not the
ColRegs. There is no connection.

One is tested on one's knowledge
of the COLREGS and NOT on some other set of Rules or regulations.


Now you're actually admitting that you didn't take all the tests! Amazing! Although
one is not required to memorize the various parts of the CFR, they are part of the test.
One should be familiar enough with 46CFR to quickly find the answer to any questions.
These are the regulations that govern ones behavior as a licensed Master.

Don't try to tell me the COLREGS have nothing to do with licenses.
The COLREGS have everything to do with licenses.

The test covering the ColRegs is one of 4 tests. It has a reputation as being hard
because its closed book, but people have just as much trouble with the other tests.

License endorsements
such as a sail endorsement are based on testing for knowledge in
those areas but the tests still rely in large part on knowledge of
the COLREGS.

Wrong. You'd know this if you had taken the test.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Comments interspersed:


Simple Simon wrote:

Don't worry about me. I'm plenty intelligent to take care of
myself.

Debatable .... you so far haven't had the intelligence, background, or
experience, to come off as anything but a "fool wannabe" in any subject
I've been involved with.

You're entitled to your opinions - limited in scope though
they often are - so I'll allow then to stand or fall on
their own merit.

G The scope of what I've forgotten, far exceeds the scope of all that
you may have learned.

Every seaman knows what bung up and bilge free means.

ROFL BS!! You did a quick google (I'll give you credit for that ability)

It was derived from the practice of storing wooden barrels
with the bung up and stacked free of any bilge water.

Actually, not true. Your search did not give you all the info.
Casks (not barrels) had a bulge in the middle. The idea of "bilge free"
was that you didn't want this bulge, touching the cask below, so the
stow needed to be set up, such that the ends where supported and the
middle was kept free of touching anything, be it bilge water, or the
cask, below (this could also be applied to barrels) ....... nice try,
but, as per usual, you showed your lack.....

Nowadays it means 'Alright'.

How are you doing Captain? Oh, I'm bung up and bilge free!

S.Simon - knows less than anyone thinks and learns nothing by
living the life of a sailor not some lubberly
homebody.




"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

OK, Neal, I'll bite and reply to this bit of ignorance .... comments
interspersed:


Simple Simon wrote:


All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

The definition of COLREGS regarding motorboats and USCG regarding
powerdriven/aux-sail/sail for license purposes, are two different animals.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

Low and behold, we can agree on something .... as long as it is being
propelled by that motor.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Wrong. If the vessel's construction and function, is a aux - sail boat,
then he must have a sailing endorsement, to cover the boats main
construction/function. If you remove the mast and only proceed underway
on power, then you are fine.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across.

Typically wrong ... considered and is, are two different things.

The simple act of displaying the cone

makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal.

Typically wrong

The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot

be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Sorry, but typically you are trying to join the USCG licensing with the
COLREGS. One has nothing to do with the other.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

That's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Typically wrong, but in truth, I could care less. If you want to work
under that false assumption, have at it. If the day should come, that
you should get caught and end up in court, I will sit back and enjoy a
great belly laugh, at your expense.
I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again .... you're a phony
wannabe, not worthy of anyone's respect, where licenses and maritime
knowledge are concerned.


Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

ROFLMAO Neal, I've probably forgotten more basic seamanship, than you'll
ever learn (EG I can see a stupid Neal post coming) ... as for test
.... any monkey can be trained to pass a test .... it's what they do
AFTER they pass the test, that counts.

Neal ... what's "bung up and bilge free"?

otn

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Not if its not "being propelled by machinery"...


Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:
o on.

In the same manner, an aux/sailboat showing a steaming light
by night and a cone by day identifies itself as a motorboat. It
matters not if the sails are providing the propulsion. As long as
there is machinery operating it's legally a motorboat according
to the Rules.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Simple Simon wrote:
One is licensed so one can operate the various types of vessels
defined in the COLREGS. That makes the COLREGS an integral
part of the use of said licenses.

Don't try to tell me the COLREGS have nothing to do with licenses.
The COLREGS have everything to do with licenses.

So now you are trying to pull an insanity defense, right.

Won't work, Nil, you just keep making yourself look even worse and even
more ignorant - as if that were possible!

Bwahahahahahahaahahah What a panic stricken loser wannabe ...


Rick

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

ROFL Comments interspersed:

Simple Simon wrote:

One is licensed so one can operate the various types of vessels
defined in the COLREGS. That makes the COLREGS an integral
part of the use of said licenses. One is tested on one's knowledge
of the COLREGS and NOT on some other set of Rules or regulations.

One is tested on ones knowledge of the COLREGS, for any license, but the
requirements for any license are totally separate from COLREGS and in
no way dependent or related, there too.

Don't try to tell me the COLREGS have nothing to do with licenses.
The COLREGS have everything to do with licenses. License endorsements
such as a sail endorsement are based on testing for knowledge in
those areas but the tests still rely in large part on knowledge of
the COLREGS.

COLREGS are only one part of the test ( obviously a part you still have
a problem with). The COLREGS, do not determine what ANY governing body
will class as requirements for different grades of license.

ROFL You're beginning to sound like some rabbit, running scared,
because even YOUR simple brain can realize you're walking on thin ice.

otn


HEY Isn't it past your normal bedtime???? ROFLMAO You must be REALLY
running scared !!!!

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

ROFLMAO As Jeff has said, in another post ..... Do you REALLY hold a
license??????
You can't POSSIBLY have taken any kind of license exam, no matter what
tonnage, and truly believe this nonsense !!!!!!!

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

You wake up and smell the coffee yourself. Licensing is
based on knowledge of the COLREGS and not on knowledge
of USCG licensing requirements.

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

Wake up and smell the coffee, dipchit !!! COLREGS are one thing
.....USCG requirements are another.
If you're too stupid to realize that, you are too stupid to hold ANY
kind of license, for any kind of vessel.

otn

Simple Simon wrote:


I disagree. You cannot have two conflicting sets of rules and
expect to make any sense out of them. There is only one legal
definition of a sailing vessel underway and that is the one
in the COLREGS as long as said vessel is operating in waters
covered by the COLREGS.

The other definition only covers those areas not covered by
the COLREGS.

Lord!

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...


You're using a ColRegs definition of sail and power. This is simply not relevant to the
licensing issue. There is nothing that ties the two together.

However, 46CFR, which governs the licensing, says that it derives many of its basic
definitions (or "includes by reference") from the ABYC standards. In there, it defines
"Sail" as "Sail includes sailboats which may have a small outboard engine for auxiliary
power." "Auxiliary Sail" refers to sailboats which have an inboard engine.

46CFR is quite clear on the requirements for a "sail" and "auxiliary sail" endorsement,
and the need to have the appropriate endorsement to be a master on these types of vessels.
There is no mention of whether the sail or engine is used, only the type of boat.
Clearly, to be a Master of a Sailboat, you must have the sail endorsement. Even if you
never raise the sail and power all day on the outboard, while you may be a "power vessel"

from the point of view of the ColRegs, but you're a sailboat according to 46 CFR, and you

need the endorsement.
--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"I like sailing because it is the sport which demands the least energy" Albert Einstein




"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


All the so-called professional captains continue to embarrass themselves
by refusing to read and understand the COLREGS. They show their stupidity
as well by not understanding the definition of a motor boat.

Fact: any aux/sailboat when its motor is running, no matter whether it
has sails up or not, is a motor boat according to the Rules.

This means that a 25GT Master of Steam or Motor Vessels Near Coastal
does not need a sail endorsement to carry passengers for hire unless and
until the motor is turned off and the vessel is operating under sail alone.

Even then it's a gray area because all one need do is keep the steaming
cone up and you are still considered a motor boat by any and all vessels
you may happen to come across. The simple act of displaying the cone
makes your Master of Steam or Motor Vessels license all that is needed
to be legal. The cone makes you a motor boat. The only time you cannot
be a motor boat is if you have no motor installed. Then flying the cone
is not legal because it's a lie. The Master of the vessel is the person
who decides if his aux/sail vessel is a sailboat or a motorboat and
not the courts and not the Coast Guard. Just to make the case 100
percent watertight all the Master need do is just keep the motor
turning over at an idle and there is no lie. Everything is on the up
and up according to the definitions in the Rules. No court in the
land can decide any different without misinterpreting the Rules.

Rick is clearly an idiot and so is Shen44 and otn if they fail to
see these simple facts that represent the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Rick wrote: "You are NOT a master of
sailboats of any sort. You are not a professional sailor."

Wrong! I am Master of an aux/sailboat because an aux sailboat
with the motor running is a motorboat and a motorboat license if
appropriate for its operation.

Rick further embarrassed himself by writing the following gem:
"The funny part is that Nil hangs all his claims to fame and status on
being a sailor of sailboats and loudly and continually condemns all
powerboaters as some sort of subspecies."

Wrong again! I have always maintained that I studied for and
obtained a Masters license mostly for the knowledge gained and
not to make a living with it. It allows me to legally do a little
work on the side in BOTH my aux/sailboat and my Boston Whaler.
It also allows me to keep honest you ego cases who live and breath
motorboats only. You just hate the fact that a single-handed
sailor who lives aboard and actually goes places knows as much
as you do and passed the same tests you took probably with
better scores to boot.


S.Simon

Master of Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than 25GT
upon Near Coastal Waters, also Operator of Uninspected
Passenger Vessels upon Near Coastal Waters not to exceed
100 miles offshore.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:02:53 GMT, "Wally" wrote
this crap:

Simple Simon wrote:

The cone makes you a motor boat.

If I wear a fake alien mask, does that make me an alien?

Only in your case.


Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

The ignorance of the so-called professional captains is astounding.
 

Just like having tits makes you a woman.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:02:53 GMT, "Wally" wrote
this crap:

Simple Simon wrote:

The cone makes you a motor boat.

If I wear a fake alien mask, does that make me an alien?

Only in your case.


Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.