rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Bent rudder shaft would be my first guess. A simple fix.

CM

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
| that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.
|
| Here's the pic
|
| http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg
|
| Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
| corrected?
|
| The boat is about 30 years old at least.
|
|
|

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

Early Beneteau?

RB

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

Move the camera about a foot to the left and take another picture.

Rick

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

Is the name on the transom "Ghost"? Looks like it backed over something =
hard and bent the shaft.
--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

I wonder how it happened. Other than that, the boat looks to
be in good shape. Do you think this is a result of a collision?
In reverse??

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Bent rudder shaft would be my first guess. A simple fix.

CM

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
| that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.
|
| Here's the pic
|
| http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg
|
| Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
| corrected?
|
| The boat is about 30 years old at least.
|
|
|

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

C&C 32. Just kidding. Actually, it's a Cal.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

Early Beneteau?

RB

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Good one Rick.

"Rick" wrote in message
ink.net...
Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

Move the camera about a foot to the left and take another picture.

Rick

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Gasp... you're right!

"katysails" wrote in message
...

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

Is the name on the transom "Ghost"? Looks like it backed over something
hard and bent the shaft.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Must be a J30.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

It actually looks like it was bent sideways.. I don't
think it has anything to do with the cradle.

The Captains Nemesis wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:37:23 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.


Crappy photo.
Is the rudder offset or just appears bent sideways.
Seen a few boats that have sat badly in the cradle that have distorted
the hull so the rudder looks bent when it's the keel not plumb.
Also seen a few with the keel offset on the centreline...NOT Benny's.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
Who spends an hour tuning before every race not just when new sails go on
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Grounding, Tide, Impact, Storm damage..... that is irrelevant.

CM

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| I wonder how it happened. Other than that, the boat looks to
| be in good shape. Do you think this is a result of a collision?
| In reverse??
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
| Bent rudder shaft would be my first guess. A simple fix.
|
| CM
|
| "Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
| ...
| | I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
| | that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.
| |
| | Here's the pic
| |
| | http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg
| |
| | Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
| | corrected?
| |
| | The boat is about 30 years old at least.
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:37:23 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

Turn the wheel, until it lines up.



Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

How did they sell those boats with crooked keels? Didn't people spot the error
or was it so slight?

RB

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Jon,

It is hard to tell from the photo but it looks like the keel is a wing
keel, shoal draft and the rudder isn't. The rudder looks longer than the
keel. This would cause the rudder to take the full effect of any
grounding.

I'm inclined to believe this is the case and it has happened before and
as long as the rudder functions it will be accepted.

OT

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

How did they sell those boats with crooked keels? Didn't people spot the
error
or was it so slight?

Ask one of your J30 buddies.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

That's not a winged keel! Those are blocks under the keel! Since its sitting on 6x6
blocks, and there's "air" under the rudder, it doesn't look like the rudder is deeper than
the keel.

I suppose someone might chose to go a few seasons rather than fix a bent rudder post, but
I would think you'd have to fix it before selling - or simply take the price right off the
top - so why not fix it right away?


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Jon,

It is hard to tell from the photo but it looks like the keel is a wing
keel, shoal draft and the rudder isn't. The rudder looks longer than the
keel. This would cause the rudder to take the full effect of any
grounding.

I'm inclined to believe this is the case and it has happened before and
as long as the rudder functions it will be accepted.

OT

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

It's sitting on blocks on the keel... just the angle of the pic.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Jon,

It is hard to tell from the photo but it looks like the keel is a wing
keel, shoal draft and the rudder isn't. The rudder looks longer than the
keel. This would cause the rudder to take the full effect of any
grounding.

I'm inclined to believe this is the case and it has happened before and
as long as the rudder functions it will be accepted.

OT

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

I agree! I'm just wondering if the owner actually noticed.
I was just wandering around the yard, since it's close to
where I keep my boat. Maybe I'll go back and see if the
owner is around.

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
That's not a winged keel! Those are blocks under the keel! Since its
sitting on 6x6
blocks, and there's "air" under the rudder, it doesn't look like the
rudder is deeper than
the keel.

I suppose someone might chose to go a few seasons rather than fix a bent
rudder post, but
I would think you'd have to fix it before selling - or simply take the
price right off the
top - so why not fix it right away?


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Jon,

It is hard to tell from the photo but it looks like the keel is a wing
keel, shoal draft and the rudder isn't. The rudder looks longer than the
keel. This would cause the rudder to take the full effect of any
grounding.

I'm inclined to believe this is the case and it has happened before and
as long as the rudder functions it will be accepted.

OT

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Do you want to rephrase that statement, girly guy with
tits?

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:37:23 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

Turn the wheel, until it lines up.



Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Interesting explanation. I suspect damage, however. I'm wondering
if a mistake such as what you describe would survive the 30 years
from then until now. Seems like it wouldn't and/or it would be
spotted on at least one of the many haulouts.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Some of them were as bad as the picture Ganz's link
showed. Most people who buy yachts in this so-called
modern world are looking inside at the cushions, galley
fittings, teak and holly sole, queen berths, shower
facilities and all that other crap that's there to please
the womenfolk. It's the rare yachtsman who even bothers
to check keel alignment.

S.Simon


"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

How did they sell those boats with crooked keels? Didn't people spot the error
or was it so slight?

RB

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

When did you work at Irwin, and were you the person who tightened the
keel bolts?

Simple Simon wrote:

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

I worked for Irwin for one year back in 1987-88. They fired
me because I refused to take their stupid drug test they decided
to institute because they would get better insurance rates. A lot
of good it did them as they went bankrupt about a year later.

I was a MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) on the 43MKII
line sometimes helping out with the 38 and 52's and where ever
else I was needed. I had nothing to do with installing the keels
but I watched the procedure several times. They usually did it
at night when there was few people around so the boat could
be put on the line ready for installing the interior and systems.

S.Simon


"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message ...
When did you work at Irwin, and were you the person who tightened the
keel bolts?

Simple Simon wrote:

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

I worked for Irwin for one year back in 1987-88. They fired
me because I refused to take their stupid drug test they decided
to institute because they would get better insurance rates. A lot
of good it did them as they went bankrupt about a year later.

I was a MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) on the 43MKII
line sometimes helping out with the 38 and 52's and where ever
else I was needed. I had nothing to do with installing the keels
but I watched the procedure several times. They usually did it
at night when there was few people around so the boat could
be put on the line ready for installing the interior and systems.

S.Simon


"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message ...
When did you work at Irwin, and were you the person who tightened the
keel bolts?

Simple Simon wrote:

Nope, they just wheeled the keel under the boat which was suspended
on a travelift and lowered the boat until the studs sticking out of the
keel slid into the holes drilled into the boss. The holes were drilled
by using a plywood pattern taken off the actual keel to be fitted. If
one or two of the studs didn't quite line up with the holes they were
bent to fit. It was all very crude. Things were lined up by eyeball
only and if the hull happened to be not hung in the travelift perfectly
perpendicular it was very hard to NOT end up with a crooked keel.

S.Simon

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...

They didn't have a jig?


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

When I used to work for Irwin Yachts we actually
produced several boats where the rudder and the
keel did not quite line up. The reason for this was
the fitting of the keel which was often done quite
sloppily. The hulls had a keel boss upon which the
keel was bolted. The area between the keel and the
boss was often a bit rough from the mold and not
smoothed off properly as there was no way to grind
it at exactly straight. Then troweled atop the keel
was a mixture of resin, cabosil, etc to bed the keel
the boss as the keel studs were drawn up and
tightened. These studs were often not exactly straight
up from the keel molding process so holes drilled
in the keel boss to match them were often much larger
than they should have been in order to allow the
angled studs to pass through the boss. Then
the tightening process was often hit and miss where
idiotic mechanics would tighten bolts on one side of
the keel all the way and then the other side all the
way. There was little consideration for 'cross
tightening'. This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

S.Simon




"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

...

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Was it bent before you ran over it?

Cheers MC

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Jeez, well how could you miss it? I wonder how it affects
the sailing/pointing.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Some of them were as bad as the picture Ganz's link
showed. Most people who buy yachts in this so-called
modern world are looking inside at the cushions, galley
fittings, teak and holly sole, queen berths, shower
facilities and all that other crap that's there to please
the womenfolk. It's the rare yachtsman who even bothers
to check keel alignment.

S.Simon


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
This process often squeezed out the
resin mixture more on one side than the other and
when the mixture hardened it effectively made
the bottom surface of the keel boss crooked. Thus
the keel was on there crooked to stay.

How did they sell those boats with crooked keels? Didn't people spot the
error
or was it so slight?

RB

rudder doesn't line up with keel
 

Good catch.

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Was it bent before you ran over it?

Cheers MC

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

I just ran across a boat on the hard at a local yard and noticed
that the rudder doesn't quite line up with the keel.

Here's the pic

http://www.sailnow.com/gifs/rudder.jpg

Does someone know what caused this and how it can be
corrected?

The boat is about 30 years old at least.