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Actually, we're the most productive workers on the planet.
"katysails" wrote in message ... Free Trade sucks so much backwash! I hate it! It only makes any sense when both signators have a reasonably close GDP. Since we've shipped all our industry to Mexico since NAFTA and done ourselves in economically, I have to agree... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Importing
Actually, we're the most productive workers on the planet.
Yes, we are, and that has nothing to do with it. We are also the most = highly paid productive workers on the planet which makes the profit = margins for corporations shrink...so they are moving to Mexico where = labor isn't quite as productive but is way, way cheaper. --=20 katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
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Ultimately, the only way to improve the situation is for US
workers to be even more productive. Protection won't work in the long term. "katysails" wrote in message ... Actually, we're the most productive workers on the planet. Yes, we are, and that has nothing to do with it. We are also the most highly paid productive workers on the planet which makes the profit margins for corporations shrink...so they are moving to Mexico where labor isn't quite as productive but is way, way cheaper. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
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Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Ultimately, the only way to improve the situation is for US workers to be even more productive. ... Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The bottom line is what an item costs to produce, which includes labor but many other costs we'd rather ignore. For example, our draconian environmental statutes add more to production costs than does labor for many industrial operations such as chrome plating. These regulations are a major reason heavy industry has fled the U.S. Moreover, increasing per-worker productivity requires automation which costs money and itself puts people out of work. That new robomachine that allows one operator to do the work of ten not only costs big bucks, which must be added to the items it produces, but puts nine workers on the street. It may be more profitable to move to a 3rd world country than raise the capital to buy the new machine, especially if buying it means downsizing anyway. Now consider what happens when productivity becomes so high that everything is made by machines, without labor. Without jobs, nobody can buy anything and without sales there are no profits and ... |
Importing
Come on... I suppose you'd rather have the heavy industries
back, pumping their filth into the air around *your* home and killing *your* kids. Give me a break. Also, your assumption that automation will eliminate jobs was debunked in the 50s. It's just not true. Automation will eliminate *some* jobs, but others are created. We need to be knowledge workers not laborers. "Vito" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Ultimately, the only way to improve the situation is for US workers to be even more productive. ... Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The bottom line is what an item costs to produce, which includes labor but many other costs we'd rather ignore. For example, our draconian environmental statutes add more to production costs than does labor for many industrial operations such as chrome plating. These regulations are a major reason heavy industry has fled the U.S. Moreover, increasing per-worker productivity requires automation which costs money and itself puts people out of work. That new robomachine that allows one operator to do the work of ten not only costs big bucks, which must be added to the items it produces, but puts nine workers on the street. It may be more profitable to move to a 3rd world country than raise the capital to buy the new machine, especially if buying it means downsizing anyway. Now consider what happens when productivity becomes so high that everything is made by machines, without labor. Without jobs, nobody can buy anything and without sales there are no profits and ... |
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Vito wrote: ...... For example, our draconian environmental statutes add more to production costs than does labor for many industrial operations such as chrome plating. These regulations are a major reason heavy industry has fled the U.S. Umm, yeah right. Let's have more mercury & lead in the water, great idea. IMHO the part of NAFTA which was actually *good* was the part where we were not going to export pollution, ie any plants that moved directly overseas and did not have similar environmental controls (there was a 2600 page book on just this alone) would have tariffs imposed equal to the price of the skipped pollution controls. Now consider what happens when productivity becomes so high that everything is made by machines, without labor. Without jobs, nobody can buy anything and without sales there are no profits and ... That's part of why the economy tends to move in cycles, boom or bust. DSK |
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Jonathan Ganz wrote:
Come on... I suppose you'd rather have the heavy industries back, pumping their filth into the air around *your* home and killing *your* kids. Good news: I have no kids at home. Bad news: I've had to quit riding motorcycles because of all the trucks spraying imported wet garbage up and down the roads hereabouths. A nice chrome plating shop dumping a few poisons would be more welcome but the mob isn't interested in chrome shops. But that's beside the point, which is that if we want local employers to be able to compete with foreign companies that don't have to abide by our expensive laws then we'll have to tax imports to level the playing field. Give me a break. OK, arm or leg? (c: .... Also, your assumption that automation will eliminate jobs was debunked in the 50s. Yup, by propagandists fighting communism. Yasee capitalism is a great system but it will inevitably be killed by the same advancing technology that gave it birth and then what. Some prefer Naziism, others Communism and still others to stick their heads in the sand in denial. Me? I'm too old to care. It's just not true. Automation will eliminate *some* jobs, but others are created. We need to be knowledge workers not laborers. The flaw in your theory is that the jobs automation creates require ever more intellegence and education than an ever growing part of the population can provide. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist or MD even if they wanted to. When I graduated from High School half the class went to work at the Ford plant and the other half at the aircraft plant, all earning enough to buy homes and raise families. Less than 1 in 10 went to college and most of them flunked out. Those factory jobs are now done better and cheaper by machines. Ditto ever more "professional" jobs. There was a big demand for EEs til large scale integration came along. Then they became computer programmers, until high level languages came along. Then they became unemployed. I guess they should have got honest jobs as lawyers or ministers, right? Of course there are still plenty of jobs for kids getting out of high school today - at McDonalds and Wendys and Buggerking - but unless you are in the top half of the population and motivated and financed enough to get at least a BS don't expect to earn a living. Tomarrow .... If you had an *average* 15 year old kid what would you encourage him/her to do today? |
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If we want local employers to be more competitive,
we should allow them to fail or survive by their own designs (with a bit of encouragement from the gov't). Very good news... :-) Good news: I have no kids at home. Bad news: I've had to quit riding motorcycles because of all the trucks spraying imported wet garbage up and down the roads hereabouths. A nice chrome plating shop dumping a few poisons would be more welcome but the mob isn't interested in chrome shops. But that's beside the point, which is that if we want local employers to be able to compete with foreign companies that don't have to abide by our expensive laws then we'll have to tax imports to level the playing field. I was thinking coffee break.... Give me a break. OK, arm or leg? (c: .... Also, your assumption that automation will eliminate jobs was debunked in the 50s. We're not currently using capitalism, so failure isn't really an option. Yup, by propagandists fighting communism. Yasee capitalism is a great system but it will inevitably be killed by the same advancing technology that gave it birth and then what. Some prefer Naziism, others Communism and still others to stick their heads in the sand in denial. Me? I'm too old to care. Not a flaw at all. One must constantly relearn and reeducate oneself to remain valuable. What you did years ago and how you survived or didn't isn't really related to professions or education today. Same goes for me, but I have a science and literature education, which means I can do most anything badly. :-} Watch the lawyere crack... my mom's a lawyer and she's quite honest and ethical, or so the stories go. It's just not true. Automation will eliminate *some* jobs, but others are created. We need to be knowledge workers not laborers. The flaw in your theory is that the jobs automation creates require ever more intellegence and education than an ever growing part of the population can provide. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist or MD even if they wanted to. When I graduated from High School half the class went to work at the Ford plant and the other half at the aircraft plant, all earning enough to buy homes and raise families. Less than 1 in 10 went to college and most of them flunked out. Those factory jobs are now done better and cheaper by machines. Ditto ever more "professional" jobs. There was a big demand for EEs til large scale integration came along. Then they became computer programmers, until high level languages came along. Then they became unemployed. I guess they should have got honest jobs as lawyers or ministers, right? A BS or a BA is still valuable not so much for the actual degree, but for the testament to actually finishing something. That's a lot of what employers look for in new grads. Of course there are still plenty of jobs for kids getting out of high school today - at McDonalds and Wendys and Buggerking - but unless you are in the top half of the population and motivated and financed enough to get at least a BS don't expect to earn a living. Tomarrow .... I would tell them to find something they love to do, something they're really interested in doing and pursue that. If they're unsure, then experiment with different things when they get to college (no off-color or drug puns intended). I doesn't matter an iota what they pick, as long as they're motivated. If it's science or medicine, great. If it's being the best at repairing cars, that's great too. My mechanic works 3 days a week, 4-5 hours a day. He makes tons of money.. if that's what motivates him, which I doubt. I think he's motivated by excellence. If you had an *average* 15 year old kid what would you encourage him/her to do today? |
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Throw a shoe into the machinery?
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