Never run downwind?
 

He's talking about 50' moored barges.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
,but I still clean it with a little scrub brush
every two weeks just to retain that fine, competitive edge that
allows me to handily beat J/24s and stay even with most 50-
foot cruising boats.


LOL........... Stop!
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Never run downwind?
 

Simple,

You're getting worst than Nutsy. "America's Cuppers" sail downwind from
lay line to Layline, Gybing several times in so doing, If it was
faster, why does the windward boat cover the Lee boat sailing for the
Layline. Using your logic ,the trailing boat would gain the lead and
with no trouble passing by going straight downwind

Boy, what a downwind leg it would be between you and CM!!! Oh Yeah!!!!

Ole Thom
P/S Neal I have many, many tapes of America Cupper downwind, Even going
back to the 12 Meters. Everyone with Gybing downwind. I could let you
have one if it would help you

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

Thanks Steve,

I used a lower wind speed on the 150 angle so I Could use the 30x60
trinagle.
I've had trouble with Simple about exceeding wind speed downwind. I
didn't want to get into exceeding hull speed and surfing all in one
bite. This way I'm able to use visual angle and distances without
working trig formulars.

OT

Never run downwind?
 

"Thomas Stewart" wrote in message

| Boy, what a downwind leg it would be between you and CM!!! Oh Yeah!!!!

Thom it wouldn't even be a contest... I would be so far ahead of Neal he
would be checking to make sure he had unhitched his mooring painters. In a
DDW leg racing in light to moderate winds I'll broad reach and gybe.... in
really gusty winds or wind speeds in excess of 30 knots it's just plain
safer, quicker and easier to wing on wing and avoid not only the stress on
the rig from a gybe but the loss in momentum and speed from the action
itself.

Nonetheless... I so rarely race anymore that it's a non issue. I'll take the
hassle free goose winged set any day.

CM

Never run downwind?
 

75 miles off and return in 3 days? That's 50 miles a day?
Wow, now that's fast!

Do you think I'm leaving from Sandy Hook, Ganzy?

RB

Never run downwind?
 

No, I would say that it sounds like Jeff and Skitch did your homework.
--
----
Steve
S/V Pony Express

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...


This post proves that Ganzy knows nothing about sailing.
Think about where I am, Ganzy. Now imagine that I leave Saturday at 8:00
am and
I need to return Sunday night.
Think about Hells Gate...can't exactly turn it when I want, now can't I.
Now
imagine that winds are low and I don't want to motor the whole trip.
75 miles offshort and back assuming a direct VMG would be 150 NM plus
waiting
for the tides and possible uncooperative wind to make the gate both ways.
Hmmmm. Sounds like I did my homework.

RB

Never run downwind?
 

You're assuming I gave RB the correct info. It's up to him to double and triple check
everything - this isn't a place where you want to get things wrong. Since I don't transit
NYC often, I always use two different tide/current sources to make sure I didn't go to the
wrong page or column.

-jeff
"Constant Vigilance!" - Frances W. Wright



"Pony Express" wrote in message
...
No, I would say that it sounds like Jeff and Skitch did your homework.
--
----
Steve
S/V Pony Express

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...


This post proves that Ganzy knows nothing about sailing.
Think about where I am, Ganzy. Now imagine that I leave Saturday at 8:00
am and
I need to return Sunday night.
Think about Hells Gate...can't exactly turn it when I want, now can't I.
Now
imagine that winds are low and I don't want to motor the whole trip.
75 miles offshort and back assuming a direct VMG would be 150 NM plus
waiting
for the tides and possible uncooperative wind to make the gate both ways.
Hmmmm. Sounds like I did my homework.

RB

Never run downwind?
 

No, I would say that it sounds like Jeff and Skitch did your homework.

Thanks for the complement.

RB

Never run downwind?
 

It's up to him to double and triple check
everything - this isn't a place where you want to get things wrong.

Hells gate is simple. Check for the flow and go! The only trouble we ever had
was years ago in the tiny 27 footer, forced down by the CG against the current
after the fireworks display.

RB

Never run downwind?
 

Speed has never been and never will be the primary reason to go
to sea. Even those who go to break speed records are doing it
primarily for money and fame. Speed is but a means to an end.

(or, in your case, speed is something you snort up your nose)


"CANDChelp" wrote in message ...
Only a fool would prefer to go to sea for a circumnavigation
with speed as the primary reason.

Unless speed was the primary reason for going to sea.

RB

Never run downwind?
 

Sorry, that was a Freudian slip typo. I meant to
type 30 foot cruising boats.


"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ...
,but I still clean it with a little scrub brush
every two weeks just to retain that fine, competitive edge that
allows me to handily beat J/24s and stay even with most 50-
foot cruising boats.


LOL........... Stop!
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Never run downwind?
 

I think I need to start racing. I could humiliate these clods.
These racers are really stupid to think given wind enough to
reach hull speed on a downwind run that they can go faster
than hull speed by jybing downwind. Sorry, unless your
boat planes off you will take longer to the leeward mark
fooling around with lay lines, polars and any other crap
that you want to come up with than if you just popped a
chute and ran straight to the mark.

Consider this. It only takes ten or twelve knots to drive
my fine vessel to hull speed downwind using a cruising
spinnaker poled out. If these racing wimps only race in
lighter winds than that then they are sissies and bums not
worthy of the name sailor.


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...

"Thomas Stewart" wrote in message

| Boy, what a downwind leg it would be between you and CM!!! Oh Yeah!!!!

Thom it wouldn't even be a contest... I would be so far ahead of Neal he
would be checking to make sure he had unhitched his mooring painters. In a
DDW leg racing in light to moderate winds I'll broad reach and gybe.... in
really gusty winds or wind speeds in excess of 30 knots it's just plain
safer, quicker and easier to wing on wing and avoid not only the stress on
the rig from a gybe but the loss in momentum and speed from the action
itself.

Nonetheless... I so rarely race anymore that it's a non issue. I'll take the
hassle free goose winged set any day.

CM

Never run downwind?
 

My very first post disqualified light air as a consideration. I have
always maintained that the conditions were air sufficient to drive
the vessel to hull speed. Why else would I have mentioned cats
and tris excluded? It's because tris and cats don't have a constraint
of a hull speed like displacement boats.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
A very subtle backpedal, Neal. Everyone that posted stipulated that gybing downwind is
especially appropriate in light air. Now you're claiming that your argument only holds
when you can get to hull speed on a dead run. The Cat 36 polars I posted showed that in
10 knots of wind the optimum run angle is gybing through 64 degrees; in 12 knots its still
36 degrees. It doesn't take a planing boat - the strategy holds for most boats.

Its typical of you to boast that you attain hull speed in 10 knots of wind, but the record
shows otherwise. From your own trip log of your Gulf Stream crossings last year:

--------------------------------
Outbound:
The crossing was slower than I had anticipated because the winds seemed to
lighten as the day progressed. They were having a hard time reaching ten knots.
We did, however, manage to make a sixty dregree compass heading most of the day.
The current in the Gulf Stream was strong and moved us north at a faster pace
than anticipated. Ended up motorsailing thru the afternoon because the winds
became too light to make the rhum line against the flow of the Stream and we did
not wish to end up north of West End. The ocean was about like Hawk Channel -
not much wave action at all ...

Inbound:
Too bad the winds were so light. They started out at around ten knots from the
east which made it almost a run to West Palm Beach. Ended up having to start the
motor at sunrise after only making good about twelve miles ...
---------------------------------

It looks like rather than going a hull speed, you were motoring!

BTW, I can sympathize - below 10 knots of wind I sometimes succumb to the temptation of
starting the engine. Of course, in 10 knots I can do your hull speed.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
I think I need to start racing. I could humiliate these clods.
These racers are really stupid to think given wind enough to
reach hull speed on a downwind run that they can go faster
than hull speed by jybing downwind. Sorry, unless your
boat planes off you will take longer to the leeward mark
fooling around with lay lines, polars and any other crap
that you want to come up with than if you just popped a
chute and ran straight to the mark.

Consider this. It only takes ten or twelve knots to drive
my fine vessel to hull speed downwind using a cruising
spinnaker poled out. If these racing wimps only race in
lighter winds than that then they are sissies and bums not
worthy of the name sailor.


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"Thomas Stewart" wrote in message

| Boy, what a downwind leg it would be between you and CM!!! Oh Yeah!!!!

Thom it wouldn't even be a contest... I would be so far ahead of Neal he
would be checking to make sure he had unhitched his mooring painters. In a
DDW leg racing in light to moderate winds I'll broad reach and gybe.... in
really gusty winds or wind speeds in excess of 30 knots it's just plain
safer, quicker and easier to wing on wing and avoid not only the stress on
the rig from a gybe but the loss in momentum and speed from the action
itself.

Nonetheless... I so rarely race anymore that it's a non issue. I'll take the
hassle free goose winged set any day.

CM

Never run downwind?
 

Sounds like you don't know what the f*ck you are doing.

"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
75 miles off and return in 3 days? That's 50 miles a day?
Wow, now that's fast!

This post proves that Ganzy knows nothing about sailing.
Think about where I am, Ganzy. Now imagine that I leave Saturday at 8:00
am and
I need to return Sunday night.
Think about Hells Gate...can't exactly turn it when I want, now can't I.
Now
imagine that winds are low and I don't want to motor the whole trip.
75 miles offshort and back assuming a direct VMG would be 150 NM plus
waiting
for the tides and possible uncooperative wind to make the gate both ways.
Hmmmm. Sounds like I did my homework.

RB

Never run downwind?
 

You're digging the hole deeper, Neal. Here's your first post:

That is incorrect information for any displacement monohull where
it is always faster to run straight downwind. It only applies to
multi-hulls and planning hulls that can, using a strong wind, move
faster than their theoretical hull speed.

You don't mention light air - in fact you specifically say jibing downwind works in strong
wind.




"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
My very first post disqualified light air as a consideration. I have
always maintained that the conditions were air sufficient to drive
the vessel to hull speed. Why else would I have mentioned cats
and tris excluded? It's because tris and cats don't have a constraint
of a hull speed like displacement boats.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
A very subtle backpedal, Neal. Everyone that posted stipulated that gybing downwind
is
especially appropriate in light air. Now you're claiming that your argument only
holds
when you can get to hull speed on a dead run. The Cat 36 polars I posted showed that
in
10 knots of wind the optimum run angle is gybing through 64 degrees; in 12 knots its
still
36 degrees. It doesn't take a planing boat - the strategy holds for most boats.

Its typical of you to boast that you attain hull speed in 10 knots of wind, but the
record
shows otherwise. From your own trip log of your Gulf Stream crossings last year:

--------------------------------
Outbound:
The crossing was slower than I had anticipated because the winds seemed to
lighten as the day progressed. They were having a hard time reaching ten knots.
We did, however, manage to make a sixty dregree compass heading most of the day.
The current in the Gulf Stream was strong and moved us north at a faster pace
than anticipated. Ended up motorsailing thru the afternoon because the winds
became too light to make the rhum line against the flow of the Stream and we did
not wish to end up north of West End. The ocean was about like Hawk Channel -
not much wave action at all ...

Inbound:
Too bad the winds were so light. They started out at around ten knots from the
east which made it almost a run to West Palm Beach. Ended up having to start the
motor at sunrise after only making good about twelve miles ...
---------------------------------

It looks like rather than going a hull speed, you were motoring!

BTW, I can sympathize - below 10 knots of wind I sometimes succumb to the temptation
of
starting the engine. Of course, in 10 knots I can do your hull speed.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
I think I need to start racing. I could humiliate these clods.
These racers are really stupid to think given wind enough to
reach hull speed on a downwind run that they can go faster
than hull speed by jybing downwind. Sorry, unless your
boat planes off you will take longer to the leeward mark
fooling around with lay lines, polars and any other crap
that you want to come up with than if you just popped a
chute and ran straight to the mark.

Consider this. It only takes ten or twelve knots to drive
my fine vessel to hull speed downwind using a cruising
spinnaker poled out. If these racing wimps only race in
lighter winds than that then they are sissies and bums not
worthy of the name sailor.


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"Thomas Stewart" wrote in message

| Boy, what a downwind leg it would be between you and CM!!! Oh Yeah!!!!

Thom it wouldn't even be a contest... I would be so far ahead of Neal he
would be checking to make sure he had unhitched his mooring painters. In a
DDW leg racing in light to moderate winds I'll broad reach and gybe.... in
really gusty winds or wind speeds in excess of 30 knots it's just plain
safer, quicker and easier to wing on wing and avoid not only the stress on
the rig from a gybe but the loss in momentum and speed from the action
itself.

Nonetheless... I so rarely race anymore that it's a non issue. I'll take the
hassle free goose winged set any day.

CM

Never run downwind?
 

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
You're digging the hole deeper, Neal. Here's your first post:

That is incorrect information for any displacement monohull where
it is always faster to run straight downwind. It only applies to
multi-hulls and planning hulls that can, using a strong wind, move
faster than their theoretical hull speed.

You don't mention light air - in fact you specifically say jibing downwind works in strong
wind.


Exactly, I'm smart enough to realize that if hull speed can be
exceeded by planning then all bets are off. It stands to reason
that light air does not provide the power to do that on any
point of sail by any water sailing vessel. Therefore, light air
as a consideration is not included in the scenario, just as I said
all along. It appears that your jumping to conclusions is
the cause of the misunderstanding.

Never run downwind?
 

My Friend Neal,

Please don't try racing. At times you are enough embarrassement to the
ASA without proving it as a fact. Besides you can't race with those
potted plants sitting on your self. stay on your mooring.

If you know anything about anything, the rating on the "Banana Boat"
would be so slow you'd have to race in the cruising class. That my
friend in a class that doesn't allow Flying Sails. For your information
your Assy. Spinn is a flying sail. Not allowed. However, that blown out
Main of yours might work as a good downwind Chute :^)

Now, about "AM CUPPERS" going downwind. Neal, If you've ever watch the
races, you've must have seen them turn the weather mark where one vessel
will choose a Gybe SET and the other will choose a BEAR AWAY SET. Even
with SPINNAKERS they are working on wind ANGLES for their downwind runs.
They know which way the wind is blowing. They send crew up the mast to
assure this. Why Oh Seaman Supreme, does this happen?

Also, If you have an ASSY you must also be aware that is an off wind
reaching sail. Even poled out it is more efficient cracked off dead
downwind, aren't you?

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

Neal,

I picked wind speeds at or below hull speeds. This is the conditions
where Gybing downwind works. You have to be able to gain about a 30%
increase in speed with less than a 30% change of course from the wind.
If you can't do this you are forced to join the parade to the Gybe
marker.

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

I'm not jumping to conclusions - you said:

"incorrect information for any displacement monohull where it is always faster to run
straight downwind."

That's pretty unequivocal. Looks like maybe you should sit back and take some lessons
from your betters. Even booby knows more about sailing than you do!

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
You're digging the hole deeper, Neal. Here's your first post:

That is incorrect information for any displacement monohull where
it is always faster to run straight downwind. It only applies to
multi-hulls and planning hulls that can, using a strong wind, move
faster than their theoretical hull speed.

You don't mention light air - in fact you specifically say jibing downwind works in
strong
wind.


Exactly, I'm smart enough to realize that if hull speed can be
exceeded by planning then all bets are off. It stands to reason
that light air does not provide the power to do that on any
point of sail by any water sailing vessel. Therefore, light air
as a consideration is not included in the scenario, just as I said
all along. It appears that your jumping to conclusions is
the cause of the misunderstanding.

Never run downwind?
 

that is incorrect information for any displacement monohull where
it is always faster to run straight down wind

That my friend is what you said. You said ALWAYS FASTER TO RUN STRAIGHT
DOWNWIND;

You said ALWAYS, you said ALWAYS. Yes you did. You said it, you said it.

You said America Cup racer sail straight downwind, only making slight
adjustment. You said it. Yes you did. You said it

You said ANY DISPLACEMENT MONOHULL. You did, you said it G
You sad ANY. That what you said :^)

As I've said before; "UP YOURS!"

AND; "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!!"

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

My God, Thom, get a grip. You're going to have a stroke over downwind sailing???? Please go have another drink.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Never run downwind?
 

You people are hopelessly stupid. You cannot figure
out context means everything when it comes to the
written word. The context clearly was given enough
wind to reach hull speed.


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
that is incorrect information for any displacement monohull where
it is always faster to run straight down wind

That my friend is what you said. You said ALWAYS FASTER TO RUN STRAIGHT
DOWNWIND;

You said ALWAYS, you said ALWAYS. Yes you did. You said it, you said it.

You said America Cup racer sail straight downwind, only making slight
adjustment. You said it. Yes you did. You said it

You said ANY DISPLACEMENT MONOHULL. You did, you said it G
You sad ANY. That what you said :^)

As I've said before; "UP YOURS!"

AND; "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!!!"

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

Sailing the straight line is faster downwind unless the winds
are light and fluky. Given any decent wind the boat with
chute going directly from point to point will beat some
geek chasing lay lines and looking at polar predictions
every time. That's a fact. I suggest you go watch a few
more races and you will see just what I mean.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
My Friend Neal,

Please don't try racing. At times you are enough embarrassement to the
ASA without proving it as a fact. Besides you can't race with those
potted plants sitting on your self. stay on your mooring.

If you know anything about anything, the rating on the "Banana Boat"
would be so slow you'd have to race in the cruising class. That my
friend in a class that doesn't allow Flying Sails. For your information
your Assy. Spinn is a flying sail. Not allowed. However, that blown out
Main of yours might work as a good downwind Chute :^)

Now, about "AM CUPPERS" going downwind. Neal, If you've ever watch the
races, you've must have seen them turn the weather mark where one vessel
will choose a Gybe SET and the other will choose a BEAR AWAY SET. Even
with SPINNAKERS they are working on wind ANGLES for their downwind runs.
They know which way the wind is blowing. They send crew up the mast to
assure this. Why Oh Seaman Supreme, does this happen?

Also, If you have an ASSY you must also be aware that is an off wind
reaching sail. Even poled out it is more efficient cracked off dead
downwind, aren't you?

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

There's something wrong with your server or news client.

I get nothing but garbled text from you.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...

snipped a bunch of garbled text

Never run downwind?
 

That's odd - you're coming through quite clearly:

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The cute nurse has been giving me pills every morning and night
but I fooled her! I hide the pills under my tongue and throw them
out when nobody is looking!
I hope the starship comes again tonight ... it's so much fun when
they beam me to their holodeck so I can go sailing again!

Never run downwind?
 

Here Cappy.... I've reposted it from my server to help you out... buddy! ;-D

CM

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
| What's going on Neal, did you forget to take your meds again?
|
| Half the time you're saying that gybing downwind never works, and half the
time you're
| saying it works if you're going slower than hull speed.
|
| You claim that you watched the America's Cup on TV, and they always ran
directly to the
| downwind mark; now in uk.rec.sailing you're saying you never watch TV.
Anyone that
| watched the Cup matches knows they gybed through significant angles
downwind.
|
| Last year you wrote that 10 knots winds were so light you had to motor
both ways on your
| Bahamas trip; now you claiming you do hull speed in 10 knots.
|
| You also wrote the only excuse for running an engine was light air, but on
your trip you
| frequently motorsailed against strong headwinds.
|
| So what's going on here, Neal? It would seem that there is a complete
disconnect between
| the real world and what you write.
|
|
| "Simple Simon" wrote in message
| ...
| The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
|
| Sailing the straight line is faster downwind unless the winds
| are light and fluky. Given any decent wind the boat with
| chute going directly from point to point will beat some
| geek chasing lay lines and looking at polar predictions
| every time. That's a fact. I suggest you go watch a few
| more races and you will see just what I mean.
|
| "Thom Stewart" wrote in message
| ...
| My Friend Neal,
|
| Please don't try racing. At times you are enough embarrassement to the
| ASA without proving it as a fact. Besides you can't race with those
| potted plants sitting on your self. stay on your mooring.
|
| If you know anything about anything, the rating on the "Banana Boat"
| would be so slow you'd have to race in the cruising class. That my
| friend in a class that doesn't allow Flying Sails. For your
information
| your Assy. Spinn is a flying sail. Not allowed. However, that blown
out
| Main of yours might work as a good downwind Chute :^)
|
| Now, about "AM CUPPERS" going downwind. Neal, If you've ever watch
the
| races, you've must have seen them turn the weather mark where one
vessel
| will choose a Gybe SET and the other will choose a BEAR AWAY SET.
Even
| with SPINNAKERS they are working on wind ANGLES for their downwind
runs.
| They know which way the wind is blowing. They send crew up the mast to
| assure this. Why Oh Seaman Supreme, does this happen?
|
| Also, If you have an ASSY you must also be aware that is an off wind
| reaching sail. Even poled out it is more efficient cracked off dead
| downwind, aren't you?
|
| Ole Thom
|
|
|
|
|

Never run downwind?
 

Canadian servers don't seem to work either for some reason . . .


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...
Here Cappy.... I've reposted it from my server to help you out... buddy! ;-D

CM

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
snipped garbled text

Never run downwind?
 

He raced a tricked out J30 often and only saw 10 knots ONCE!

Tell the group what a "tricked out" J30 is. I for one will be waiting.

Just as I thought. You know nothing about the J30. Here's a primer for ya.
http://www.j30.org/
The J30 is far and away more popular than your boat and actually get's one
design races going. As a racer it even has a proper tiller and more tunable
fractional rig.

RB

RB

Never run downwind?
 

The problem is on your side... at least according to everything
I can determine.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Canadian servers don't seem to work either for some reason . . .


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Here Cappy.... I've reposted it from my server to help you out... buddy!
;-D

CM

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
snipped garbled text

Never run downwind?
 

,Just as I thought. You know nothing about the J30. Here's a primer for ya.
http://www.j30.org/
The J30 is far and away more popular than your boat and actually get's one
design races going. As a racer it even has a proper tiller and more tunable
fractional rig.

Poor attempt at evading the subject. As usual you failed to answer the
question that was asked. I'll ask again. What is a "tricked out" J30. I'll
be waiting again.
To address your irrelevant points however it is more popular in some areas
because of the one design aspect. More tunable? Don't think so. Maybe not
even more adjustable since the Express has inline shrouds, a babystay and an
adjustable backstay. It might be more bendable. I'll take a masthead boat in
average North American wind conditions anyday. The J30 is a slug upwind on the
typical 10kt day with leftover chop.
Now please post what a "tricked out" J30 is and not some wasted link that
doe not answer the question.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Never run downwind?
 

Hey, Neal! Let's see if you are able to read it from a UK server!

Regards


Donal
--

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
What's going on Neal, did you forget to take your meds again?

Half the time you're saying that gybing downwind never works, and half the
time you're
saying it works if you're going slower than hull speed.

You claim that you watched the America's Cup on TV, and they always ran
directly to the
downwind mark; now in uk.rec.sailing you're saying you never watch TV.
Anyone that
watched the Cup matches knows they gybed through significant angles
downwind.

Last year you wrote that 10 knots winds were so light you had to motor
both ways on your
Bahamas trip; now you claiming you do hull speed in 10 knots.

You also wrote the only excuse for running an engine was light air, but on
your trip you
frequently motorsailed against strong headwinds.

So what's going on here, Neal? It would seem that there is a complete
disconnect between
the real world and what you write.


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

Sailing the straight line is faster downwind unless the winds
are light and fluky. Given any decent wind the boat with
chute going directly from point to point will beat some
geek chasing lay lines and looking at polar predictions
every time. That's a fact. I suggest you go watch a few
more races and you will see just what I mean.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
My Friend Neal,

Please don't try racing. At times you are enough embarrassement to the
ASA without proving it as a fact. Besides you can't race with those
potted plants sitting on your self. stay on your mooring.

If you know anything about anything, the rating on the "Banana Boat"
would be so slow you'd have to race in the cruising class. That my
friend in a class that doesn't allow Flying Sails. For your
information
your Assy. Spinn is a flying sail. Not allowed. However, that blown
out
Main of yours might work as a good downwind Chute :^)

Now, about "AM CUPPERS" going downwind. Neal, If you've ever watch
the
races, you've must have seen them turn the weather mark where one
vessel
will choose a Gybe SET and the other will choose a BEAR AWAY SET.
Even
with SPINNAKERS they are working on wind ANGLES for their downwind
runs.
They know which way the wind is blowing. They send crew up the mast to
assure this. Why Oh Seaman Supreme, does this happen?

Also, If you have an ASSY you must also be aware that is an off wind
reaching sail. Even poled out it is more efficient cracked off dead
downwind, aren't you?

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

Canadian servers don't seem to work either for some reason . . .

Oh, what wicked webs we weave when first we practice to deceive....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Never run downwind?
 

I just splashed my screen! Bwhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah

Cheers MC

CANDChelp wrote:

Nope...two weeks after that is our 'Cruise" straight out offshore. We only have
3 days, but I'm hoping we can get 75 miles offshore at least.

Never run downwind?
 

Nope! My ISP doesn't allow anything but headers and a single line
from the other side of the Pond.


"Donal" wrote in message ...
Hey, Neal! Let's see if you are able to read it from a UK server!

Never run downwind?
 

Over proof that the wind shifts with depression while the sea state lags
behind or reflects a distant 'stalled' system?

Cheers MC

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Odd.... I've rarely seen a wave train oriented differently than the wind
direction.

Never run downwind?
 

Symmetric of course ;-)

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:
I'm talking spinnakers here big boy! Only a fool eschews a
spinnaker on a downwind run.


"Thomas Stewart" wrote in message ...

Simple,

Your statement is absolutely wrong and completely off the wall. It is
wrong in theory and it is wrong in actuality.

Neal, before you take this into a argument, please look at a copy of the
polar performance curve for mono hulls. You will see that for a wind
blowing 5 knts or less, your vessel cannot exceed the speed of the wind
going dead downwind. Neal, now look at the speed of the vessel sail at a
150 degree angle (30 deg delta) a pick up of a knt and a half. A .583%
increase in speed)

I picked the 30 Deg angle because it is easier to visualize. ( 30x60
triangle) Now visualize a unit of travel directly downwind and the
distance of the vessel at 150 for the same unit of time. You will see
that the vessel at 30 degrees off dead downwind traveled .593 times
farther. Now, I know the base of the triangle isn't quite equal to twice
the distance traveled but close enough for this old beached sailor. So,
the vessel off the wind is .093% farther downwind and time to gybe back
to course. Now sailing a course of 210 deg, traveling 1.593 times faster
and will be back on the original course 18% farther downwind than the
boat slogging along dead downwind.

Now if you had ever raced in the Cruising Class ( No Flying Sail) you
would know this to be true. I know you don't want to agree that a boat
can exceed the speed of the wind going downwind but you are DEAD WRONG.
I've tried before to tell you the things you can do to increase off wind
speed but I see you are still living in the dark about it.

Don't lead the newbees astray with your lack of knowledge and experience
but many,many times I've returned to the Leeward mark with large gains
over boats traveling dead downwind wing and wing.

Ole Thom

Never run downwind?
 

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Nope! My ISP doesn't allow anything but headers and a single line
from the other side of the Pond.
That's a real pity. You are probably missing soooo much!




Neal is a Wan*er. Neal is a Wa*ker! Neal is a Wank*r!
Nananaanaaaaa! Nah Na Na NAA naaaa!




Regards


Donal
--

Never run downwind?
 

We only have
3 days, but I'm hoping we can get 75 miles offshore at least.

You planning on going very very slow to see the sights?
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Never run downwind?
 

3 days, but I'm hoping we can get 75 miles offshore at least.

You planning on going very very slow to see the sights?

Sadly, Katy missed the thread where a few people understood that the distance
from City Island combined with the timing of Hells Gate, makes 75 miles
offshore less than easy unless winds cooperate fully.
Maybe you think offshore starts at Hart island???

Bwahahahahaha! Busted again!!!

RB

Never run downwind?
 

To address your irrelevant points however it is more popular in some areas
because of the one design aspect.

It's more popular because people have HEARD of it, you pinhead!
They also built enough of them...more than 5-600 I believe.

RB