Slip Ups
 

Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of breakwaters.
There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting to
leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel, while I
have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is clear.
A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from the
entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving way, I
slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the exiting
boat as he's far more limited.
Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule" for
this? Who had the right of way?

Capt RB

Slip Ups
 

Are you in a channel of limited manueverability? Then you have the right of
way. It's in the rules.



"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of
breakwaters.
There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting
to
leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel,
while I
have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is
clear.
A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from
the
entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving way,
I
slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the
exiting
boat as he's far more limited.
Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule" for
this? Who had the right of way?

Capt RB

Slip Ups
 

Well, if Bobsprit was not displaying the proper shape or lights then was he
in violation of the rules?

It occured during daylight. I displayed no lights, shapes nor did I sound my
horn.
I believe the last is a violation.

Capt RB
NY

Slip Ups
 

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:33:31 GMT, "Gilligan"
wrote:

Are you in a channel of limited manueverability? Then you have the right
of
way. It's in the rules.

Only if you are displaying the appropriate shapes or lights. (Rule
27).

I think that you are referring to Rule 28, and it doesn't say that you don't
have to give way to a constrained vessel unless the vessel is showing the
correct shapes and or lights.




If both boats are under power then Rule 14 (head-on) or 15 (crossing
apply)

How would you interpret these rules for two boats heading directly towards
each other in a channel that is not wide enough to allow passing in the
channel?

Regards


Donal
--

Slip Ups
 

The question would be what lights or day shapes would Bob have to display if
he were exiting a marina under power and what lights or dayshapes would the
vessel entering have to display. Some of you may state that a steaming light
is required under power on a sailboat.... my viewpoint on that matter is
that a sailboat making way with no sails up is logically assumed to be
underpower in daylight without requirement of light or dayshape.

Another question would be what size the entrance channel is. Was there
sufficient room to allow two vessels to pass without conflict? Would draft
constraints come into play? If room was available for two vessels to pass
then I can see no conflict.

I would have handled the situation thusly based on insufficient room for two
vessels to pass ..... I would assess the other vessel for signs of an
emergency situation. I would hail the other vessel and relay my intention
via radio. If he refused to reply or ignored the hail.... I would bring my
vessel to the windward side of center channel and come to a dead stop. I
would then station keep the vessel and wait for a hail or for as long as it
took to force the oncoming vessel into appropriate action.

Keep in mind that the incoming vessel could have an emergency situation....
or the other vessel may not be aware of the rules which would bring into
play Hanlon's Razor."Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by ignorance"

CM



"Gilligan" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
| Well, if Bobsprit was not displaying the proper shape or lights then was
he
| in violation of the rules?
|
|
|
| "Jack Dale" wrote in message
| ...
| On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:33:31 GMT, "Gilligan"
| wrote:
|
| Are you in a channel of limited manueverability? Then you have the
right
| of
| way. It's in the rules.
|
| Only if you are displaying the appropriate shapes or lights. (Rule
| 27).
|
| If both boats are under power then Rule 14 (head-on) or 15 (crossing
| apply)
|
| Source -
| http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_f...s/NavRules.doc
|
| There could be local harbors rules.
|
| BTW - there is no "right of way". One vessel stands-on (maintains
| course and speed). The other gives way (alters course, speed or
| both). Rules 16 and 17
|
| Jack Dale
|
|
|
|
| "Bobsprit" wrote in message
| ...
|
| Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of
| breakwaters.
| There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
| When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat
| attempting
| to
| leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel,
| while I
| have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is
| clear.
| A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
| attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance
| from
| the
| entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving
| way,
| I
| slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but
he
| appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the
| exiting
| boat as he's far more limited.
| Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a
"rule"
| for
| this? Who had the right of way?
|
| Capt RB
|
|
|
|
|
|

Slip Ups
 

Understandably your horn finger was in use displaying a day shape for the
oncoming vessel.

CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| Well, if Bobsprit was not displaying the proper shape or lights then was
he
| in violation of the rules?
|
| It occured during daylight. I displayed no lights, shapes nor did I sound
my
| horn.
| I believe the last is a violation.
|
| Capt RB
| NY

Slip Ups
 

Keep in mind that the incoming vessel could have an emergency situation....
or the other vessel may not be aware of the rules which would bring into
play Hanlon's Razor."Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately
explained by ignorance"

An excellent answer.
While two vessels CAN pass between the breakwaters, it's not done often being a
bit tight.
I did not view any emergency, though the bad seamanship displayed did alert me
to that possibility. As he passed, he waved and there was certainly no
emergency. I yelled at him about his poor seamanship. He looked hurt and
confused and made no reply. I had 7 girls aboard and simply let it go. He's not
a member of the club.

RB

Slip Ups
 

If there was room for two vessels to pass [ no matter how tight] the point
is moot. Select the port side and pass starboard to starboard. You can
squeeze him from there as he closes to drive the point home.

I simply won't risk my boat and crew to make such a point. Every day I see some
boater (usually on a powerboat) do something amazingly dumb. I have no reason
to suspect that the other sailor has a clue, so I prefer wide margins for error
on their behalf. With sailors like Scotty and Loco wallowing about, I don't see
the point in inviting an accident.
If I catch the puppet head on shore, then I can make my point in the most
friendly way possible.

RB

Slip Ups
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...

Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of breakwaters.
There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting to
leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel, while I
have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is clear.
A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from the
entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving way, I
slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the exiting
boat as he's far more limited.
Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule" for
this? Who had the right of way?

Capt RB

Slip Ups
 

Bobsprit,

Good on you for being polite and allowing boats to exit while you wait for them to clear. However, politeness and consideration
have no bearing on the law.

First off, to clear up some obvious confusion, there is no such thing as a vessel constrained by draft in inland waters or the
Inland Rules. This designation is for the International Rules only. Since both vessels were operating under machinery you are
consider by the Rules as motorboats and need to follow the rules concerning motor boats meeting head to head.

Since there is room for two vessels to pass in the channel, according to the rules you should
steer your vessel so you and the oncoming vessel pass port side to port side. If any doubt or danger exists as to the course of
the oncoming vessel you may sound the appropriate danger or doubt signal. At any rate, both vessels should reduce their speed to
bare steerageway and proceed with caution.

Have pity on the poor guy. He did nothing wrong yet you chastised him. Had it been me
I would have jumped aboard your vessel, grabbed the prettiest girl and had my way with her as recompense for your abuse.

To answer your question you did NOT have the right of way. You were NOT the stand-on vessel. Perhaps you should review the Rules
lesson on my World's Famous Novice Lessons at my beyond compare website.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...

Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of breakwaters.
There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting to
leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel, while I
have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is clear.
A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from the
entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving way, I
slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the exiting
boat as he's far more limited.
Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule" for
this? Who had the right of way?

Capt RB

Slip Ups
 

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????
??????????????????/
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
|
| "Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
|
| Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of
breakwaters.
| There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
| When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting
to
| leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel,
while I
| have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is
clear.
| A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
| attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from
the
| entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving
way, I
| slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
| appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the
exiting
| boat as he's far more limited.
| Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule"
for
| this? Who had the right of way?
|
| Capt RB
|
|

Slip Ups
 

While two vessels CAN pass between the breakwaters, it's not done often being
a
bit tight.

Your marina is marked as 100 on the chart linked to below. It does not look
too tight getting around the breakwater. Why was it such a close situation?

http://www.righttrak.com/sailing/charts.html

Slip Ups
 

Your marina is marked as 100 on the chart linked to below. It does not look
too tight getting around the breakwater. Why was it such a close situation?

If I KNOW the fellow who's coming through, I'll pass, but otherwise I won't
risk it. There is also an angle for the entrance, requiring a turn following
entry.

RB

Slip Ups
 

Why is sounding a horn to alert others to your
presence a violation of the rules?

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Well, if Bobsprit was not displaying the proper shape or lights then was
he
in violation of the rules?

It occured during daylight. I displayed no lights, shapes nor did I sound
my
horn.
I believe the last is a violation.

Capt RB
NY

Slip Ups
 

Why don't you try getting the radio and discussing the situation with the oncoming boat.
This is a legal option under the Inland Rules.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
Your marina is marked as 100 on the chart linked to below. It does not look
too tight getting around the breakwater. Why was it such a close situation?

If I KNOW the fellow who's coming through, I'll pass, but otherwise I won't
risk it. There is also an angle for the entrance, requiring a turn following
entry.

RB

Slip Ups
 

typical new yawkers (assholes).

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Understandably your horn finger was in use displaying a day shape for the
oncoming vessel.

Indeed....and a few of my girls who know boats did the same!

RB

Slip Ups
 

HooBoy, this gets funnier and funnier.

I yelled at him about his poor seamanship. He looked hurt and
confused

Slip Ups
 

Is the channel really only wide enough for one boat?

Cheers MC

Bobsprit wrote:
Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of breakwaters.
There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting to
leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel, while I
have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is clear.
A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from the
entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving way, I
slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the exiting
boat as he's far more limited.
Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule" for
this? Who had the right of way?

Capt RB

Slip Ups
 

That'll be correct now.
Cheers MC

Bobsprit wrote:

While two vessels CAN pass between the breakwaters,

it's not done often becuase I am as inept as most of the others at manouvering.

Slip Ups
 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Capt. Mooron wrote:
.. Select the port side and pass starboard to starboard. You can
squeeze him from there as he closes to drive the point home.

Slip Ups
 

It appears to be quite a large opening from what I saw on the chart. Maybe
Bob could take a picture of it to confirm the actual width involved. It
appears to be at least as wide as the longest pier at the marina.

CM


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
| Is the channel really only wide enough for one boat?
|
| Cheers MC
|
| Bobsprit wrote:
| Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of
breakwaters.
| There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
| When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting
to
| leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel,
while I
| have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is
clear.
| A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
| attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from
the
| entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving
way, I
| slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
| appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the
exiting
| boat as he's far more limited.
| Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule"
for
| this? Who had the right of way?
|
| Capt RB
|

Slip Ups
 

Heh if you're going to confuse/harass someone... the best place to start is
where you ain't supposed to be.

CM

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
|
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
|
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
| . Select the port side and pass starboard to starboard. You can
| squeeze him from there as he closes to drive the point home.
|
|

Slip Ups
 

Because his AM/FM won't transmit. Must be busted.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Why don't you try getting the radio and discussing the situation with the
oncoming boat.
This is a legal option under the Inland Rules.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Your marina is marked as 100 on the chart linked to below. It does not
look
too tight getting around the breakwater. Why was it such a close
situation?

If I KNOW the fellow who's coming through, I'll pass, but otherwise I
won't
risk it. There is also an angle for the entrance, requiring a turn
following
entry.

RB

Slip Ups
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
If there was room for two vessels to pass [ no matter how tight] the point
is moot. Select the port side and pass starboard to starboard. You can
squeeze him from there as he closes to drive the point home.

I simply won't risk my boat and crew to make such a point. Every day I see
some
boater (usually on a powerboat) do something amazingly dumb. I have no
reason


Bob,


I hate to be the bearer of bad news.


You've just been totally skewered.


You know absolutely nothing about sailing.


Hey, Mooron! I take my hat off to you! An absolutely brilliant job,
executed with total precision, *AND* (Gilligan - please take note!) I am
particularily impressed with the fact that it only took Mooron ONE post to
tempt the Bobfish onto the skewer of anhiliation!


We should all treat Bob with kid gloves for a week or so, until his ego
recovers from this great setback.



Regards


Donal
--

Slip Ups
 

Yes, when that one boat has The Big Fat Ass Liar onboard.

"The_navigator©" wrote ...
Is the channel really only wide enough for one boat?

Cheers MC

Slip Ups
 

On 15 Jul 2003 13:45:00 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote this
crap:


Like many clubs and marinas, mine is protected by a large set of breakwaters.
There is a single entrance/exit for each of the North/South clubs.
When re-entering the club, I will always give way to any boat attempting to
leave. They simply have fewer steerage options in the center channel, while I
have 360 degrees of options. I circle away until the exiting boat is clear.
A few days ago a sailboat was coming up on the breakwater while I was
attempting to leave, both of us under power and both equal distance from the
entrance/exit. Seeing that the other boat had no intention of giving way, I
slowed and held position. I let him know what a dickhead he was, but he
appeared confused. To me it seemed like common sense. Give way to the exiting
boat as he's far more limited.
Everyone I asked agreed that I had the right of way. Is there a "rule" for
this? Who had the right of way?

Capt RB


Most places have a wide enough entrance so that boats can go each way.




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Beers!

Slip Ups
 

Are you suggesting that all LIS sailors are as ignorant at Booby?

Cheers MC

Horvath wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:51:06 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote this crap:


Why don't you try getting the radio and discussing the situation with the oncoming boat.
This is a legal option under the Inland Rules.


You think those idiots know how to operate the radio?




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Beers!

Slip Ups
 

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 14:51:06 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote this crap:

Why don't you try getting the radio and discussing the situation with the oncoming boat.
This is a legal option under the Inland Rules.

You think those idiots know how to operate the radio?




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Beers!

Slip Ups
 

This is a joke right? The entrance is huge!

Cheers MC

Bobsprit wrote:
Your marina is marked as 100 on the chart linked to below. It does not look
too tight getting around the breakwater. Why was it such a close situation?

If I KNOW the fellow who's coming through, I'll pass, but otherwise I won't
risk it. There is also an angle for the entrance, requiring a turn following
entry.

RB

Slip Ups
 

"The_nagitator©" wrote ...

Bobspit is a joke right?

yes, a cruel joke.

Slip Ups
 

Hey Simple,

The other boat could have been Skippered by Frank or Me and we both are
dead according to the web test. What the hell do we care. Right Frank?

Good reply Neal. Two boats in a good Harbor shouldn't be a problem. Not
with both under power.

OT