Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

". . . one can easily see why most experienced yachtsmen
have a rather low opinion of multi-hulls generally, and why
many members of Lloyd's Underwriters in particular have
a very dim view of insuring multi-hulls for offshore voyages.
It is worthy of note that as of this writing, we find Tom Follett,
certainly one of the more experienced multi-hull sailors still
with us, sitting up in Nova Scotia having a "lead mine"
(a mono-hull with an extremely heavy lead keel) built for
cruising.

". . . Many experienced multi-hull sailors today have a trapdoor
in the wing section underneath the liferaft so that they can launch
it even if the boat is completely upside down - not a bad idea,
but it says little of their confidence in their own craft.

" . . . Finally, for the last five years I have continually asked
offshore multi-hull enthusiasts to name five experienced offshore
cruisers with a fair amount of offfshore racing under their belts
who have switched permanently from mono-hulls to multi-hulls.
At this point I have yet to locate a single person with those qualifications,
much less five.

"It cannot be denied that the loss of life at sea on multi-hulls has
been horrendous. Two of the leading designers, Arthur Piver and
Hedley Nichols, went down with their own boats, and in one period
of eighteen months, seventeen people were killed in the waters
between Australia and New Zealand. No one really knows the total
number lost in multi-hulls over the years.

" . . . no one has ever heard of a single multi-hull that has capsized
180 degrees and come back up unaided. They have ultimate
stability when they are upside down.

"The (stability) curves of the catamaran and trimaran are wonderful
at low angles of heel, but drop off sharply as the critical point is
approached. Literally hundreds of mono-hulls have been knocked
flat to 90 degrees or slightly beyond and have come back up with
relatively little damage. Thousands of mono-hulls have taken 70
degree knockdowns and come back up with nothing worse than
a bad scare to the crew. But a catamaran or trimaran has little or
no chance of recovering from even a fifty degree knockdown."


--Donald M. Street

reproduced without permission of author from
"The Ocean Sailing Yacht II"

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Depends entirely where you sail one. In one of the French mags last month
there was an article about a French bloke who has been continually
single-handed circumnavigating in a 28ft Brazilian built collapsible
trailer-sailor catamaran for the past twelve years.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Simple Simon wrote:
Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

Nice troll Cappy. I would have loved to bite, but I'm in a real rush getting
ready for a short cruise. On a multihull ofcourse. Maybe if your troll is
alive again next week.

In the meantime try to dig up some evidence that is say no older than five
or ten years. Ie after boatbuilders have learned to build multis and sailors
have learned to sail them. Team Phillips doesn't count ;-))))

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

A multi-hull is a multi-hull is a multi-hull. They are just
as unseaworthy as ever.


"Per Elmsäter" wrote in message ...
Simple Simon wrote:
Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

Nice troll Cappy. I would have loved to bite, but I'm in a real rush getting
ready for a short cruise. On a multihull ofcourse. Maybe if your troll is
alive again next week.

In the meantime try to dig up some evidence that is say no older than five
or ten years. Ie after boatbuilders have learned to build multis and sailors
have learned to sail them. Team Phillips doesn't count ;-))))

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

When you've sailed your 28ft monohull around the world come back on here and
tell us about it.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978." There have been a few advances in the last 25
years. But you wouldn't know about that. And Street is hardly the person to use as an
authority on modern boats.

As for insurance, Rod Gibbons wrote 10 years later that production cats with positive
flotation and a good safety record (including Prouts, Catalacs, Catfishers, etc) receive
the most favorable rates from Lloyds, because they have been found to be the lowest risk
boats. My insurance rate, relative to replacement value, went down considerably when I
got a cat.

BTW, Piver and Nichols both died in small homemade plywood trimarans, not modern glass
cruising cats. I'm not sure of the details of Nichols' death, but Piver was using a
borrowed boat, and his friends were at the dock begging not to go in such a poorly built
boat. But it was his design, so as a matter of pride he sailed and was never seen again.

Remember, this thread started when you claimed tris were greatly superior to cats - you
just seemed to disprove it.

-jeff


"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

". . . one can easily see why most experienced yachtsmen
have a rather low opinion of multi-hulls generally, and why
many members of Lloyd's Underwriters in particular have
a very dim view of insuring multi-hulls for offshore voyages.
It is worthy of note that as of this writing, we find Tom Follett,
certainly one of the more experienced multi-hull sailors still
with us, sitting up in Nova Scotia having a "lead mine"
(a mono-hull with an extremely heavy lead keel) built for
cruising.

". . . Many experienced multi-hull sailors today have a trapdoor
in the wing section underneath the liferaft so that they can launch
it even if the boat is completely upside down - not a bad idea,
but it says little of their confidence in their own craft.

" . . . Finally, for the last five years I have continually asked
offshore multi-hull enthusiasts to name five experienced offshore
cruisers with a fair amount of offfshore racing under their belts
who have switched permanently from mono-hulls to multi-hulls.
At this point I have yet to locate a single person with those qualifications,
much less five.

"It cannot be denied that the loss of life at sea on multi-hulls has
been horrendous. Two of the leading designers, Arthur Piver and
Hedley Nichols, went down with their own boats, and in one period
of eighteen months, seventeen people were killed in the waters
between Australia and New Zealand. No one really knows the total
number lost in multi-hulls over the years.

" . . . no one has ever heard of a single multi-hull that has capsized
180 degrees and come back up unaided. They have ultimate
stability when they are upside down.

"The (stability) curves of the catamaran and trimaran are wonderful
at low angles of heel, but drop off sharply as the critical point is
approached. Literally hundreds of mono-hulls have been knocked
flat to 90 degrees or slightly beyond and have come back up with
relatively little damage. Thousands of mono-hulls have taken 70
degree knockdowns and come back up with nothing worse than
a bad scare to the crew. But a catamaran or trimaran has little or
no chance of recovering from even a fifty degree knockdown."


--Donald M. Street

reproduced without permission of author from
"The Ocean Sailing Yacht II"

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978."

Bwahahahaha! Neal gets kicked in the face again!
The best part is that he does it to himself!

RB

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Christopher Columbus discovered America back in
1492 does that mean it never happened? Goodness
but there is a severe lack of logical thinking in the
world today.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:58:32 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote:

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978." There have been a few advances in the last 25
years. But you wouldn't know about that. And Street is hardly the person to use as an
authority on modern boats.

Bwaaahahahahahhahaahahahahaa! 1978!!
Bwaaahahahahahahhhahahaaa!
Hope Cappy isn't allergic to eggs because they're all over his face at
the moment!



Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

A stability curve is a stability curve is a stability curve.

Need I say more, putz?


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:56:43 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

". . . one can easily see why most experienced yachtsmen
have a rather low opinion of multi-hulls generally, and why
many members of Lloyd's Underwriters in particular have
a very dim view of insuring multi-hulls for offshore voyages.
It is worthy of note that as of this writing, we find Tom Follett,
certainly one of the more experienced multi-hull sailors still
with us, sitting up in Nova Scotia having a "lead mine"
(a mono-hull with an extremely heavy lead keel) built for
cruising.

Follett sailed proas!

". . . Many experienced multi-hull sailors today have a trapdoor
in the wing section underneath the liferaft so that they can launch
it even if the boat is completely upside down - not a bad idea,
but it says little of their confidence in their own craft.
They do it because they can!

" . . . Finally, for the last five years I have continually asked
offshore multi-hull enthusiasts to name five experienced offshore
cruisers with a fair amount of offfshore racing under their belts
who have switched permanently from mono-hulls to multi-hulls.
At this point I have yet to locate a single person with those qualifications,
much less five.
How old is this article?

"It cannot be denied that the loss of life at sea on multi-hulls has
been horrendous. Two of the leading designers, Arthur Piver and
Hedley Nichols, went down with their own boats, and in one period
of eighteen months, seventeen people were killed in the waters
between Australia and New Zealand. No one really knows the total
number lost in multi-hulls over the years.
How old is this article.....and just how many lives have been lost in
monos, anyone counting?

" . . . no one has ever heard of a single multi-hull that has capsized
180 degrees and come back up unaided. They have ultimate
stability when they are upside down.
Yep, better to stay upside down and float than sink like a leadmine!

"The (stability) curves of the catamaran and trimaran are wonderful
at low angles of heel, but drop off sharply as the critical point is
approached. Literally hundreds of mono-hulls have been knocked
flat to 90 degrees or slightly beyond and have come back up with
relatively little damage. Thousands of mono-hulls have taken 70
degree knockdowns and come back up with nothing worse than
a bad scare to the crew. But a catamaran or trimaran has little or
no chance of recovering from even a fifty degree knockdown."
Jeez, funny how he has taken no account of the huge forced required to
get to those "critical" levels.


--Donald M. Street

reproduced without permission of author from
"The Ocean Sailing Yacht II"

And just how long ago was that?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Since several hundred Prouts have circumnavigated, does that mean the 200,000 monohulls
have done so? Virtually the entire Caribbean charter cat fleet has at least one major
passage. Even here in New England where cats are traditionally a rarity they're becoming
more common - in Salem last week I saw about a dozen.

If you had said 20 to one it might have been believable, but 1000 to one just shows you've
never been anywhere.

You seem to be very terrified of the ocean, Neal. Its a good thing you stay close to
shore.

BTW, half of the sailboats in my marina are cats. The other sailboat is a Mac26x.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Then why is this particular moron having so much trouble?

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Actually, he didn't.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Christopher Columbus discovered America back in
1492 does that mean it never happened? Goodness
but there is a severe lack of logical thinking in the
world today.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:58:32 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote:

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978." There have been a few advances
in the last 25
years. But you wouldn't know about that. And Street is hardly the
person to use as an
authority on modern boats.

Bwaaahahahahahhahaahahahahaa! 1978!!
Bwaaahahahahahahhhahahaaa!
Hope Cappy isn't allergic to eggs because they're all over his face at
the moment!



Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

That's the problem. You can't say more.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
A stability curve is a stability curve is a stability curve.

Need I say more, putz?


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:56:43 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

Here is irrefutable proof of the unsuitability of multihulls
for world cruising. This is proof even lubbers understand
because it involves insurance which is something all lubbers
know and apparently love.

**********************

". . . one can easily see why most experienced yachtsmen
have a rather low opinion of multi-hulls generally, and why
many members of Lloyd's Underwriters in particular have
a very dim view of insuring multi-hulls for offshore voyages.
It is worthy of note that as of this writing, we find Tom Follett,
certainly one of the more experienced multi-hull sailors still
with us, sitting up in Nova Scotia having a "lead mine"
(a mono-hull with an extremely heavy lead keel) built for
cruising.

Follett sailed proas!

". . . Many experienced multi-hull sailors today have a trapdoor
in the wing section underneath the liferaft so that they can launch
it even if the boat is completely upside down - not a bad idea,
but it says little of their confidence in their own craft.
They do it because they can!

" . . . Finally, for the last five years I have continually asked
offshore multi-hull enthusiasts to name five experienced offshore
cruisers with a fair amount of offfshore racing under their belts
who have switched permanently from mono-hulls to multi-hulls.
At this point I have yet to locate a single person with those
qualifications,
much less five.
How old is this article?

"It cannot be denied that the loss of life at sea on multi-hulls has
been horrendous. Two of the leading designers, Arthur Piver and
Hedley Nichols, went down with their own boats, and in one period
of eighteen months, seventeen people were killed in the waters
between Australia and New Zealand. No one really knows the total
number lost in multi-hulls over the years.
How old is this article.....and just how many lives have been lost in
monos, anyone counting?

" . . . no one has ever heard of a single multi-hull that has capsized
180 degrees and come back up unaided. They have ultimate
stability when they are upside down.
Yep, better to stay upside down and float than sink like a leadmine!

"The (stability) curves of the catamaran and trimaran are wonderful
at low angles of heel, but drop off sharply as the critical point is
approached. Literally hundreds of mono-hulls have been knocked
flat to 90 degrees or slightly beyond and have come back up with
relatively little damage. Thousands of mono-hulls have taken 70
degree knockdowns and come back up with nothing worse than
a bad scare to the crew. But a catamaran or trimaran has little or
no chance of recovering from even a fifty degree knockdown."
Jeez, funny how he has taken no account of the huge forced required to
get to those "critical" levels.


--Donald M. Street

reproduced without permission of author from
"The Ocean Sailing Yacht II"

And just how long ago was that?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

The Polynesians populated the Pacific 2000 in cats years ago. Are you saying that didn't
happen?

The point about Street is that he is addressed a time in the development of modern
multihulls that was indeed dangerous. But you could just as easily point to the state of
airplanes 90 years ago and say the planes are death traps. The homemade plywood racing
tris of 30 years ago have very little in common with a modern cruising cats.

Since you're so infatuated with traditional designs, are you suggesting we all go back to
boats like The Pride of Baltimore?

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Christopher Columbus discovered America back in
1492 does that mean it never happened? Goodness
but there is a severe lack of logical thinking in the
world today.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 17:58:32 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote:

You forgot to mention "Copyright 1978." There have been a few advances in the last
25
years. But you wouldn't know about that. And Street is hardly the person to use as
an
authority on modern boats.

Bwaaahahahahahhahaahahahahaa! 1978!!
Bwaaahahahahahahhhahahaaa!
Hope Cappy isn't allergic to eggs because they're all over his face at
the moment!



Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

You certainly have a short little attention span.
I bet your wife is very frustrated. No wonder
you didn't have a kid until your mid-fifties.

I guess it is too much of me to expect anyone
to grasp the concept that mono-hulls have been
plying the waters of the world for thousands
of years while the only multis were a few,
naked South Sea islanders on proas.

I stand by my numbers. I say they are
a fair representation since the "modern"
multi-hull is only about fifty years old and
significant quantities were not produced
until recently when know-nothings needed
a floating condominium for chartering on
week-ends and holidays. These multis
are an abomination. They, in no way,
can be considered anything but a whim
that makes the charter company money.

The main thing that wears out on them is
their oversized motors, generators, refrigerators,
mattresses and dock lines.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Since several hundred Prouts have circumnavigated, does that mean the 200,000 monohulls
have done so? Virtually the entire Caribbean charter cat fleet has at least one major
passage. Even here in New England where cats are traditionally a rarity they're becoming
more common - in Salem last week I saw about a dozen.

If you had said 20 to one it might have been believable, but 1000 to one just shows you've
never been anywhere.

You seem to be very terrified of the ocean, Neal. Its a good thing you stay close to
shore.

BTW, half of the sailboats in my marina are cats. The other sailboat is a Mac26x.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
That's the problem. You can't say more.

Sorry, but I don't have your talent for talking with
a dick in your mouth.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

I stand by my numbers. I say they are
a fair representation since the "modern"
multi-hull is only about fifty years old

Wow, what an ignorant statement.

The modern multi is NOT 50 years old. I'd say less 20. In fact, in the last 10
years Multi's have enjoyed a gigantic leap in ability due to new builing
materials and techniques.
A modern cat is quite a boat.

RB

RB

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Even you have to admit I got you good with that zinger!


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Gee, you could have fool me.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
That's the problem. You can't say more.

Sorry, but I don't have your talent for talking with
a dick in your mouth.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

That's not a zinger. A zinger is something like my response.
Sorry.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...


Even you have to admit I got you good with that zinger!


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Gee, you could have fool me.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
That's the problem. You can't say more.

Sorry, but I don't have your talent for talking with
a dick in your mouth.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Sir. I understand you are not talking about multihulls, but the very
abomination of them. We usually call these misbreeds, Condomarans. Due to
them looking more like condominiums of course. Trimarans are what we call
monohulls with training wheels. Now a Catamaran, that is a whole new story,
plus they sail in all directions.

Simple Simon wrote:
You certainly have a short little attention span.
I bet your wife is very frustrated. No wonder
you didn't have a kid until your mid-fifties.

I guess it is too much of me to expect anyone
to grasp the concept that mono-hulls have been
plying the waters of the world for thousands
of years while the only multis were a few,
naked South Sea islanders on proas.

I stand by my numbers. I say they are
a fair representation since the "modern"
multi-hull is only about fifty years old and
significant quantities were not produced
until recently when know-nothings needed
a floating condominium for chartering on
week-ends and holidays. These multis
are an abomination. They, in no way,
can be considered anything but a whim
that makes the charter company money.

The main thing that wears out on them is
their oversized motors, generators, refrigerators,
mattresses and dock lines.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Since several hundred Prouts have circumnavigated, does that mean
the 200,000 monohulls
have done so? Virtually the entire Caribbean charter cat fleet has
at least one major
passage. Even here in New England where cats are traditionally a
rarity they're becoming
more common - in Salem last week I saw about a dozen.

If you had said 20 to one it might have been believable, but 1000 to
one just shows you've
never been anywhere.

You seem to be very terrified of the ocean, Neal. Its a good thing
you stay close to
shore.

BTW, half of the sailboats in my marina are cats. The other
sailboat is a Mac26x.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing
without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Simple Simon wrote:
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
A modern cat is quite a joke.



I agree!

Yes we all know how fond you were of your cat.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Per, you still plan to buy a big cat?
Scotty

"Per Elmsäter" wrote in message
...

Sir. I understand you are not talking about multihulls, but the very
abomination of them. We usually call these misbreeds, Condomarans. Due to
them looking more like condominiums of course. Trimarans are what we call
monohulls with training wheels. Now a Catamaran, that is a whole new
story,
plus they sail in all directions.

Simple Simon wrote:
You certainly have a short little attention span.
I bet your wife is very frustrated. No wonder
you didn't have a kid until your mid-fifties.

I guess it is too much of me to expect anyone
to grasp the concept that mono-hulls have been
plying the waters of the world for thousands
of years while the only multis were a few,
naked South Sea islanders on proas.

I stand by my numbers. I say they are
a fair representation since the "modern"
multi-hull is only about fifty years old and
significant quantities were not produced
until recently when know-nothings needed
a floating condominium for chartering on
week-ends and holidays. These multis
are an abomination. They, in no way,
can be considered anything but a whim
that makes the charter company money.

The main thing that wears out on them is
their oversized motors, generators, refrigerators,
mattresses and dock lines.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Since several hundred Prouts have circumnavigated, does that mean
the 200,000 monohulls
have done so? Virtually the entire Caribbean charter cat fleet has
at least one major
passage. Even here in New England where cats are traditionally a
rarity they're becoming
more common - in Salem last week I saw about a dozen.

If you had said 20 to one it might have been believable, but 1000 to
one just shows you've
never been anywhere.

You seem to be very terrified of the ocean, Neal. Its a good thing
you stay close to
shore.

BTW, half of the sailboats in my marina are cats. The other
sailboat is a Mac26x.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing
without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Scott Vernon wrote:
Per, you still plan to buy a big cat?
Scotty

Yep.


"Per Elmsäter" wrote in message
...

Sir. I understand you are not talking about multihulls, but the very
abomination of them. We usually call these misbreeds, Condomarans.
Due to them looking more like condominiums of course. Trimarans are
what we call monohulls with training wheels. Now a Catamaran, that
is a whole new story, plus they sail in all directions.

Simple Simon wrote:
You certainly have a short little attention span.
I bet your wife is very frustrated. No wonder
you didn't have a kid until your mid-fifties.

I guess it is too much of me to expect anyone
to grasp the concept that mono-hulls have been
plying the waters of the world for thousands
of years while the only multis were a few,
naked South Sea islanders on proas.

I stand by my numbers. I say they are
a fair representation since the "modern"
multi-hull is only about fifty years old and
significant quantities were not produced
until recently when know-nothings needed
a floating condominium for chartering on
week-ends and holidays. These multis
are an abomination. They, in no way,
can be considered anything but a whim
that makes the charter company money.

The main thing that wears out on them is
their oversized motors, generators, refrigerators,
mattresses and dock lines.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Since several hundred Prouts have circumnavigated, does that mean
the 200,000 monohulls
have done so? Virtually the entire Caribbean charter cat fleet has
at least one major
passage. Even here in New England where cats are traditionally a
rarity they're becoming
more common - in Salem last week I saw about a dozen.

If you had said 20 to one it might have been believable, but 1000
to one just shows you've
never been anywhere.

You seem to be very terrified of the ocean, Neal. Its a good thing
you stay close to
shore.

BTW, half of the sailboats in my marina are cats. The other
sailboat is a Mac26x.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

There are probably 1000 mono-hulls that have cruised
the world to every one multi-hull. Even a moron can
figure out and cogently explain to any imbecile so it is
understood that multi-hulls are killing machines all out
of proportion to their numbers.


"Oz1" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:34:25 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:


Doesn't mean a thing unless you can report on all those
similar craft that killed their operators without a trace.

Jesus Cappy, start counting the monos that have gone missing
without
trace, start with Joshua Slocum.....


Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

The_navigator© wrote:
Rubbish

Cheers MC

Per Elmsäter wrote:
Now a Catamaran, that is a whole new story,
plus they sail in all directions.

I agree. They only sail in the horizontal directions. Did I tell you about
the time when I passed a Farr 50 with a 40 ft cat on a beat in about 15
knots of wind. We actually made up 1 min 10 seconds on a 2 nM long upwind
leg. The mono had a professional crew, carbon sails and all the fireworks
that go with a rich mans racer.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Happens all the time. You were not on the same course...

Cheers MC

Per Elmsäter wrote:
The_navigator© wrote:

Rubbish

Cheers MC

Per Elmsäter wrote:

Now a Catamaran, that is a whole new story,
plus they sail in all directions.


I agree. They only sail in the horizontal directions. Did I tell you about
the time when I passed a Farr 50 with a 40 ft cat on a beat in about 15
knots of wind. We actually made up 1 min 10 seconds on a 2 nM long upwind
leg. The mono had a professional crew, carbon sails and all the fireworks
that go with a rich mans racer.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Hoohooo hoooo.
No this was in a race and we where definitely going around the same course.
The boat I am speaking of happen to be King Harald of Norways, Fram XVI. A
Farr 50 ft design with carbon sails. According to the papers he paid about
$1.5 million for it. The standard production TRT1200, a 40 ft Cat with
Kevlar sails sells for about $230 k. It was sailed by the
Constructor/Designer and one mate. On board were another four prospective
customers with big grins on their faces. Our top speed of the day was 25
knots in maybe 16-18 knots of wind.


The_navigator© wrote:
Happens all the time. You were not on the same course...

Cheers MC

Per Elmsäter wrote:
The_navigator© wrote:

Rubbish

Cheers MC

Per Elmsäter wrote:

Now a Catamaran, that is a whole new story,
plus they sail in all directions.


I agree. They only sail in the horizontal directions. Did I tell you
about the time when I passed a Farr 50 with a 40 ft cat on a beat in
about 15 knots of wind. We actually made up 1 min 10 seconds on a 2
nM long upwind leg. The mono had a professional crew, carbon sails
and all the fireworks that go with a rich mans racer.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

The_navigator© wrote:
So you are claiming you outpointed a Farr 50?

Cheers MC


Don't worry MC ;)
We didn't outpoint her, but we didn't get outpointed by much either. However
we made better VMG on the upwind leg. Going around the buoy into the upwind
leg, we where 1'50" behind. her. When going onto the next leg we where 40"
behind. We both went up pretty much the same side of the course and caught
the same windshifts. It was about 2 nM between the buoys and the winds where
app 15 knots. After the upwind buoy we both fell off about 20 degrees and
passed her to windward within a couple of cables going lots faster.
The reason we where behind in the first place is of course that we started
10 min later. On the 16 nM course we had a 12 min better time total. She was
of course the only boat we didn't pass within the first 15-30 minutes.


Per Elmsäter wrote:
Hoohooo hoooo.
No this was in a race and we where definitely going around the same
course. The boat I am speaking of happen to be King Harald of
Norways, Fram XVI. A Farr 50 ft design with carbon sails. According
to the papers he paid about $1.5 million for it. The standard
production TRT1200, a 40 ft Cat with Kevlar sails sells for about
$230 k. It was sailed by the Constructor/Designer and one mate. On
board were another four prospective customers with big grins on
their faces. Our top speed of the day was 25 knots in maybe 16-18
knots of wind.


The_navigator© wrote:

Happens all the time. You were not on the same course...

Cheers MC

Per Elmsäter wrote:

The_navigator© wrote:


Rubbish

Cheers MC

Per Elmsäter wrote:


Now a Catamaran, that is a whole new story,
plus they sail in all directions.

I agree. They only sail in the horizontal directions. Did I tell
you about the time when I passed a Farr 50 with a 40 ft cat on a
beat in about 15 knots of wind. We actually made up 1 min 10
seconds on a 2
nM long upwind leg. The mono had a professional crew, carbon sails
and all the fireworks that go with a rich mans racer.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.


--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

"Per Elmsäter" wrote


, we where 1'50" behind. her.

1 foot, 50 inches? That's close!

Scotty

Irrefutable proof of dangerous multihulls.
 

Scott Vernon wrote:
"Per Elmsäter" wrote


, we where 1'50" behind. her.

1 foot, 50 inches? That's close!

Scotty

And just gaining 22 inches at that. Why am I going through the hazzle of
explaining this?

--
Perre

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