[scbafreak via BoatKB.com]

I am considering building a boat and in my obsession I have been looking at
designs. Here is the deal. I have been looking at the Bruce Roberts
Centennial Spray 45 or 50 and the Bombigher 38-40 or 44-40. I like the look
of the Bombigher immensley. I saw the design and loved it, I saw photos of
completed boats and love them as well. This is not to say that I don't like
the BR C-Spray. It is a beautiful boat but not exactly what I want. Close,
but not all the way the way there.

Here is the down side. I don't know if I can get any support from Bombigher,
considering that he is no longer among the living, and BR states very clearly
that you get as much support as you think you need. Bombigher has stated
that all of there designs have very extensive instructions and this fact may
make it so i wont really need support I can't get elsewhere. Also, as much
as I like the look of the designs, I don't know enough about these boats to
tell what would make a better sailboat. I plan to be a live-aboard and
eventually do extensive blue water cruising. This is all stuff I need to
learn more about over the years of planning and building but while
considering future plans in building, I am curious as to the opinions of
others about these designs.

Not many designers draw these styles of boats. Most are sleek and pointed
and not my style. I really like the old "Pirate Ship" style and I want it to
be as much along the style of old sailing ships as possible while still being
safe and capable.

I would consider another designer if they are superior in safety and support
for the builder as long as there designs are along the sort I am looking at.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/build/200611/1

[Guest]

I would say Bombigher boats are not home buildable.

I do not think there are technically complex things, or badly unexplained
things in his designs. A plan sold over 10 000$ should cover a bunch of
details.

Just count 14000 to 18000 man hours for a shpountz 44-40. That is over 8
years FULL TIME.
Theses figures come from D Bombhiger web site www.classic-yacht-design.com


"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:68c1be8e698d9@uwe...
I am considering building a boat and in my obsession I have been looking at
designs. Here is the deal. I have been looking at the Bruce Roberts
Centennial Spray 45 or 50 and the Bombigher 38-40 or 44-40. I like the
look
of the Bombigher immensley. I saw the design and loved it, I saw photos
of
completed boats and love them as well. This is not to say that I don't
like
the BR C-Spray. It is a beautiful boat but not exactly what I want.
Close,
but not all the way the way there.

Here is the down side. I don't know if I can get any support from
Bombigher,
considering that he is no longer among the living, and BR states very
clearly
that you get as much support as you think you need. Bombigher has stated
that all of there designs have very extensive instructions and this fact
may
make it so i wont really need support I can't get elsewhere. Also, as
much
as I like the look of the designs, I don't know enough about these boats
to
tell what would make a better sailboat. I plan to be a live-aboard and
eventually do extensive blue water cruising. This is all stuff I need to
learn more about over the years of planning and building but while
considering future plans in building, I am curious as to the opinions of
others about these designs.

Not many designers draw these styles of boats. Most are sleek and pointed
and not my style. I really like the old "Pirate Ship" style and I want it
to
be as much along the style of old sailing ships as possible while still
being
safe and capable.

I would consider another designer if they are superior in safety and
support
for the builder as long as there designs are along the sort I am looking
at.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/build/200611/1

[André Langevin]

Those Bombigher are beautiful boats for someone with a sentimental heart but
i would never go on the ocean in north atlantic neither out of the trade
wins with a boat like this. The first knock down and you loose everything
over the deck.

Please think in advance as to where you want to go. Document yourself about
the ships that made it before. Talk with people that have been in hard
weather because it could happen to you as well. And probably your design
will change thereafter.

I'm planning a circumnavigation and lot of cruising and after many months
looking at different boats and characteristics, reading Adlard Coles,
Dashews on bad weather and other things, documenting on many accident at
sea... i am still confident i could do it in a conventional boat like a
Roberts 43 but built in steel or aluminum and be equiped to be able to
sustain 2 feet of water over the deck for day long without leaking a single
drop in...

Good luck !

André
"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:68c1be8e698d9@uwe...
I am considering building a boat and in my obsession I have been looking at
designs. Here is the deal. I have been looking at the Bruce Roberts
Centennial Spray 45 or 50 and the Bombigher 38-40 or 44-40. I like the
look
of the Bombigher immensley. I saw the design and loved it, I saw photos
of
completed boats and love them as well. This is not to say that I don't
like
the BR C-Spray. It is a beautiful boat but not exactly what I want.
Close,
but not all the way the way there.

Here is the down side. I don't know if I can get any support from
Bombigher,
considering that he is no longer among the living, and BR states very
clearly
that you get as much support as you think you need. Bombigher has stated
that all of there designs have very extensive instructions and this fact
may
make it so i wont really need support I can't get elsewhere. Also, as
much
as I like the look of the designs, I don't know enough about these boats
to
tell what would make a better sailboat. I plan to be a live-aboard and
eventually do extensive blue water cruising. This is all stuff I need to
learn more about over the years of planning and building but while
considering future plans in building, I am curious as to the opinions of
others about these designs.

Not many designers draw these styles of boats. Most are sleek and pointed
and not my style. I really like the old "Pirate Ship" style and I want it
to
be as much along the style of old sailing ships as possible while still
being
safe and capable.

I would consider another designer if they are superior in safety and
support
for the builder as long as there designs are along the sort I am looking
at.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/build/200611/1

[Glenn Ashmore]

I don't think either would be a particularly good choice. The Bombigher
will take you 10 to 15 years to complete and I get an email at least once a
month from desperate half finished BR builders looking for either advice on
systems or some leads on unloading it. As an amateur you will need ongoing
support through to completion and you are not going to get much on either of
those.

Look for some plans that use contemporary methods that you feel you can
master fairly quickly and a designer who will work with you to completion
without charging an arm and a leg.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:68c1be8e698d9@uwe...
I am considering building a boat and in my obsession I have been looking at
designs. Here is the deal. I have been looking at the Bruce Roberts
Centennial Spray 45 or 50 and the Bombigher 38-40 or 44-40. I like the
look
of the Bombigher immensley. I saw the design and loved it, I saw photos
of
completed boats and love them as well. This is not to say that I don't
like
the BR C-Spray. It is a beautiful boat but not exactly what I want.
Close,
but not all the way the way there.

Here is the down side. I don't know if I can get any support from
Bombigher,
considering that he is no longer among the living, and BR states very
clearly
that you get as much support as you think you need. Bombigher has stated
that all of there designs have very extensive instructions and this fact
may
make it so i wont really need support I can't get elsewhere. Also, as
much
as I like the look of the designs, I don't know enough about these boats
to
tell what would make a better sailboat. I plan to be a live-aboard and
eventually do extensive blue water cruising. This is all stuff I need to
learn more about over the years of planning and building but while
considering future plans in building, I am curious as to the opinions of
others about these designs.

Not many designers draw these styles of boats. Most are sleek and pointed
and not my style. I really like the old "Pirate Ship" style and I want it
to
be as much along the style of old sailing ships as possible while still
being
safe and capable.

I would consider another designer if they are superior in safety and
support
for the builder as long as there designs are along the sort I am looking
at.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/build/200611/1

[DSK]

André Langevin wrote:
Those Bombigher are beautiful boats for someone with a sentimental heart but
i would never go on the ocean in north atlantic neither out of the trade
wins with a boat like this. The first knock down and you loose everything
over the deck.


I agree that the Bombigher designs are not the "ultimate
heavy weather" vessel but what sailboat is totally immune to
knockdowns?


Please think in advance as to where you want to go. Document yourself about
the ships that made it before. Talk with people that have been in hard
weather because it could happen to you as well. And probably your design
will change thereafter.


Agreed, and add that you should take the time to do some
hard weather sailing yourself. Nothing like being there.


I'm planning a circumnavigation and lot of cruising and after many months
looking at different boats and characteristics, reading Adlard Coles,
Dashews on bad weather and other things, documenting on many accident at
sea... i am still confident i could do it in a conventional boat like a
Roberts 43 but built in steel or aluminum and be equiped to be able to
sustain 2 feet of water over the deck for day long without leaking a single
drop in...


That's more a function of how the deck is built & how the
hardware & fittings are installed... after a few years, it
will be a matter of how well the boat is maintained.

I don't particularly like Bruce Roberts designs because they
are boxy & slow, and a lot of effort is exerted to make them
"salty looking" instead of truly seaworthy... such as having
a high LPS, etc. Two points to bear in mind when discussing
"seaworthyiness:" fatigue is the greatest enemy of the
offshore sailor, and there is no way that the design and/or
construction of *any* vessel will ever protect you from that
deadly hazard of heavy weather offshore, getting konked in
the head by a can of soup.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

[André Langevin]

Indeed some BR are boxy and some others aren't. For a designer who has so
much model to choose from we need to say which one. After ready a few tales
about sailor caught in gigantic surf around NZ and Australia, most of them
wanted to slow their boat using warps, drogues and even parachute.

Unless someone is a first hand sailor trained on 60feet surfing maxi beast,
i'm not sure that it is a big difference to go 7.5 instead of 8.0 knots with
a 38 LWL (for a given 40 some feet LOA). Of course if you're stuck at 5
knots because someone doesn't know how to hoist a sail and trim it is
another problem. It all depend on the navigation program. Some people
want to go fast and i agree, other want safety.

I valuate your opinion but i don't know what boxy means. For my education,
do you think that this design is boxy or functional ? ::
http://www.langevin.biz/marinette34/next_boat.htm

André

"DSK" wrote in message
...
André Langevin wrote:
Those Bombigher are beautiful boats for someone with a sentimental heart
but i would never go on the ocean in north atlantic neither out of the
trade wins with a boat like this. The first knock down and you loose
everything over the deck.


I agree that the Bombigher designs are not the "ultimate heavy weather"
vessel but what sailboat is totally immune to knockdowns?


Please think in advance as to where you want to go. Document yourself
about the ships that made it before. Talk with people that have been in
hard weather because it could happen to you as well. And probably your
design will change thereafter.


Agreed, and add that you should take the time to do some hard weather
sailing yourself. Nothing like being there.


I'm planning a circumnavigation and lot of cruising and after many months
looking at different boats and characteristics, reading Adlard Coles,
Dashews on bad weather and other things, documenting on many accident at
sea... i am still confident i could do it in a conventional boat like
a Roberts 43 but built in steel or aluminum and be equiped to be able to
sustain 2 feet of water over the deck for day long without leaking a
single drop in...


That's more a function of how the deck is built & how the hardware &
fittings are installed... after a few years, it will be a matter of how
well the boat is maintained.

I don't particularly like Bruce Roberts designs because they are boxy &
slow, and a lot of effort is exerted to make them "salty looking" instead
of truly seaworthy... such as having a high LPS, etc. Two points to bear
in mind when discussing "seaworthyiness:" fatigue is the greatest enemy of
the offshore sailor, and there is no way that the design and/or
construction of *any* vessel will ever protect you from that deadly hazard
of heavy weather offshore, getting konked in the head by a can of soup.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

[DSK]

André Langevin wrote:
Indeed some BR are boxy and some others aren't. For a designer who has so
much model to choose from we need to say which one.

That's sure to be true, after all I am not familiar with
each & every Bruce Roberts design. However, all the ones I
have seen (including a fin keel racer-cruiser) look rather
boxy to my eye. Maybe some are more so than others




Unless someone is a first hand sailor trained on 60feet surfing maxi beast,
i'm not sure that it is a big difference to go 7.5 instead of 8.0 knots with
a 38 LWL (for a given 40 some feet LOA).

There more difference than that between a heavy full keeled
boat & a lightweight speedy one. 60ft maxis have been known
to break 20 knots, and hit the teens regularly. Of course,
when the weather & sea state become terrible then the
problem is to slow down, which the heavy boats are much
better at!


... Of course if you're stuck at 5
knots because someone doesn't know how to hoist a sail and trim it is
another problem. It all depend on the navigation program. Some people
want to go fast and i agree, other want safety.


I don't see an inherent conflict between speed & safety. A
fast boat can be just as safe... or more so... than a slow one.


I valuate your opinion but i don't know what boxy means. For my education,
do you think that this design is boxy or functional ? ::
http://www.langevin.biz/marinette34/next_boat.htm


Heh heh ... next you'll want me to criticise some mother's
child, right?

From that angle, it's a nice looking boat. Is it a hard
chine hull? I don't happen to like raised aft decks, too
piratey-looking, but that's personal taste.

Fresh BReezes- Doug King

[scbafreak via BoatKB.com]

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
I don't think either would be a particularly good choice. The Bombigher
will take you 10 to 15 years to complete and I get an email at least once a
month from desperate half finished BR builders looking for either advice on
systems or some leads on unloading it. As an amateur you will need ongoing
support through to completion and you are not going to get much on either of
those.

Look for some plans that use contemporary methods that you feel you can
master fairly quickly and a designer who will work with you to completion
without charging an arm and a leg.


Glenn, you've been a big help in my obsession with the future possibility of
a boat project, thanks. The problem is that I really like the "pirate ship"
style. They are the only only ones that I could spend a decade working on
and still really enjoy. If I don't love the boat the moment I start building
I will be just another home builder that never completes his dream. I think
that's how you did it. You really looked into what you wanted and didn't
settle for less. I think that its the trick to sticking with it. That and
being really stubborn. I also really like building things and the idea of
building my home that can take me all over the world is a bit irresistable.
My Grandfather built the house he lived in and there is a big streak of him
in me. If anyone out there has another designer to recommend that actually
designs "classic" style schooners then I am all ears but I haven't found any.
I do hear what you are saying about the BR design and given that I think it
is out of the running. He does sell a number of books on boat building I may
buy, along with the books you recomend on your site. I have a long way to go
before I am ready to do this.

As for the Bombigher, I haven't checked ino the availability of support yet.
The site is run by a designer that was a friend of his so that may prove
helpful. If not, the designs come with a 1000 page manual that supposedly
covers every screw and process involved in the entire build. As for the time
I have two options. Option one is two go with the 42' boat with a build time
of 10,000 to 12,000 hours rather than the 49' with a build time of 14,000 to
18,000 hours. Option two is to build as much as is needed for it to be
livable in the water while not neccessarliy sailable then move onto it and
work on it over the years finishing cabinetry, decking, and staterooms that
aren't critical as a liveaboard. Of course I am still open to other
designers and I will definately keep lookig into them as well as building
methods that ensure a strong hull and deck as well as a strong seal between
the two. I realize there are about a million other things I need to learn
along the way. You, as well as many others have proven most helpful.

Thanks.

P.S. If anyone out there has any recommendations about a designer that
designs "classic" style boats, let me know. While fast is nice it isn't the
most important thing to me. I plan to live on this boat and I would like to
come home every day and be in awe of my own boat moreso than any other boat
in the marina. I guess I have a sentimental heart after all.

--
Message posted via http://www.boatkb.com

[Glenn Ashmore]

Well one sure piece of advice. NEVER move into it before it is finished. I
made that mistake building my house. When you have to go to it, work on it
and then go home, it is a project. When you are living in it you HAVE to
work on it and it becomes a chore. Projects are a lot more fun than chores.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

[scbafreak via BoatKB.com]

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
Well one sure piece of advice. NEVER move into it before it is finished. I
made that mistake building my house. When you have to go to it, work on it
and then go home, it is a project. When you are living in it you HAVE to
work on it and it becomes a chore. Projects are a lot more fun than chores.


Good tip. Also since it is a boat it will need a lot of maintanence and
doing that while building may be a bit overwhelming.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/build/200611/1