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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of homeland security? The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very competent and courteous to me and I’ve had a number of professional dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn’t a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center. We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn’t change. There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I really didn’t want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn’t see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose rudder authority. The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow. As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied to her. No question that we would have hit if I hadn’t luffed or taken some more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking? -- Roger Long |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
Roger Long wrote:
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of homeland security? The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very competent and courteous to me and I’ve had a number of professional dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn’t a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center. We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn’t change. There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I really didn’t want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn’t see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose rudder authority. The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow. As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied to her. No question that we would have hit if I hadn’t luffed or taken some more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking? Roger...don't mess with ferries. A buddy of mine had the job of ferrying school kids over water off the islands between the mainland and Vancouver Island. He got a bit close to one of the big BC ferrys and all hell broke lose. Ended up being threatened with charges and lost his job. They are supreme beings out on the waterways. Stay well away from them. |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
There are new rules about leaving clearances around ferries, since 9/11.
I think it might be two hundred yards, but it's been a little while since I saw the notices. They were posted all around our marinas and in the newspapers as well. Never saw them, out your way? Riding the Bainbridge ferry to Seattle, I've even occasionally seen Coast Guard escorts in high-speed inflatables, with mounted 50 caliber machine guns. I'd leave them plenty of room if I were you. They might get a little twitchy if you try to pull the old sail right-of-way flim-flam on them. Besides, they're not very maneuverable and they might hit you even while they were trying to avoid you. Regards, Tom Dacon "Roger Long" wrote in message ... Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of homeland security? The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center. We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose rudder authority. The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow. As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied to her. No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking? -- Roger Long |
#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
"Roger Long" wrote in message
... Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of homeland security? The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center. We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose rudder authority. The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow. As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied to her. No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking? Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are, I'd love to see a link. We sail with ferries all of the time in the SF bay, and they know the rules and obey them. We do not change course to avoid them, unless they're either in front of us and it's an overtaking situation (damn rare) or coming into or out of a restricted spot, such as the short channel near the ferry dock. If I were you, I would have gotten her numbers and given them or the CG a call. I had an encounter with a fishing boat coming back to port that was somewhat similar. We were sailing, they were overtaking and had plenty of room to go around. Their skipper decided that not being late for dinner was more important that following the rules, and we barely were able to avoid the boat, taking evasive action as a last resort after signalling (no time for a call on the VHF, but I doubt they were listening). I knew who they were and where they were berthed and discussed the situation with the harbor master upon our arrival. He had had other complaints about this particular boat, and promised to look into it. We've seen them out there after this happened in somewhat similar situations, and they have not failed to give way. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
"Capt. JG" wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote in message .. . Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of homeland security? The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center. We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose rudder authority. The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow. As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied to her. No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking? Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are, I'd love to see a link. We sail with ferries all of the time in the SF bay, and they know the rules and obey them. We do not change course to avoid them, unless they're either in front of us and it's an overtaking situation (damn rare) or coming into or out of a restricted spot, such as the short channel near the ferry dock. If I were you, I would have gotten her numbers and given them or the CG a call. I had an encounter with a fishing boat coming back to port that was somewhat similar. We were sailing, they were overtaking and had plenty of room to go around. Their skipper decided that not being late for dinner was more important that following the rules, and we barely were able to avoid the boat, taking evasive action as a last resort after signalling (no time for a call on the VHF, but I doubt they were listening). I knew who they were and where they were berthed and discussed the situation with the harbor master upon our arrival. He had had other complaints about this particular boat, and promised to look into it. We've seen them out there after this happened in somewhat similar situations, and they have not failed to give way. We have had similar situations, although we were almost always under power but we were being overtaken. The first one was in mid 2000 - a menhaden boat coming into the Greater Wicomico to Reedville. We were under sail, but were in the process of turning on the engine to go into anchor in Mill Creek off the Great Wicomico. As we were coming in, a large (abt 100 feet) grey boat came boiling up behind us on the port side. We were on the starboard side of the channel, but thought since he was overtaking that he would go around us. NOT. We finally made a panic circle to the starboard out of the channel so that he wouldn't ram us. At that point he made a whole bunch of rapid blasts of his horn. The second incident was the first time we went down the ICW when we were on the Elizabeth River in Norfolk in November 2000. The Elizabeth River ferry paddle wheel came out from his dock and turned down the river along our port side. He started to pass us and got almost all the way past, and then decided to come over to the other side of the river, and turned almost right into us. I thought we would be skewered. We speeded up so he went behind us. So a little later on in the trip, when we encountered the Fort Fisher ferry, we tried to stay out of their way, because these ferries apparently don't deviate from their track, and the route isn't obvious on the charts (although it is on the road map) .. |
#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
... "Capt. JG" wrote: "Roger Long" wrote in message . .. Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of homeland security? The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center. We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose rudder authority. The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow. As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied to her. No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking? Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are, I'd love to see a link. We sail with ferries all of the time in the SF bay, and they know the rules and obey them. We do not change course to avoid them, unless they're either in front of us and it's an overtaking situation (damn rare) or coming into or out of a restricted spot, such as the short channel near the ferry dock. If I were you, I would have gotten her numbers and given them or the CG a call. I had an encounter with a fishing boat coming back to port that was somewhat similar. We were sailing, they were overtaking and had plenty of room to go around. Their skipper decided that not being late for dinner was more important that following the rules, and we barely were able to avoid the boat, taking evasive action as a last resort after signalling (no time for a call on the VHF, but I doubt they were listening). I knew who they were and where they were berthed and discussed the situation with the harbor master upon our arrival. He had had other complaints about this particular boat, and promised to look into it. We've seen them out there after this happened in somewhat similar situations, and they have not failed to give way. We have had similar situations, although we were almost always under power but we were being overtaken. The first one was in mid 2000 - a menhaden boat coming into the Greater Wicomico to Reedville. We were under sail, but were in the process of turning on the engine to go into anchor in Mill Creek off the Great Wicomico. As we were coming in, a large (abt 100 feet) grey boat came boiling up behind us on the port side. We were on the starboard side of the channel, but thought since he was overtaking that he would go around us. NOT. We finally made a panic circle to the starboard out of the channel so that he wouldn't ram us. At that point he made a whole bunch of rapid blasts of his horn. The second incident was the first time we went down the ICW when we were on the Elizabeth River in Norfolk in November 2000. The Elizabeth River ferry paddle wheel came out from his dock and turned down the river along our port side. He started to pass us and got almost all the way past, and then decided to come over to the other side of the river, and turned almost right into us. I thought we would be skewered. We speeded up so he went behind us. So a little later on in the trip, when we encountered the Fort Fisher ferry, we tried to stay out of their way, because these ferries apparently don't deviate from their track, and the route isn't obvious on the charts (although it is on the road map) Interesting.. out here they definitely go around all sailboats. I have yet to see a ferry not follow the rules - although they occasionally hit the docks pretty hard :-) What you're describing really sounds dangerous. I mean how do you know what to do if commercial vessels don't follow the rules of the road? Strange. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
"Roger Long" wrote in news:MGDpg.58359$3B.6612
@twister.nyroc.rr.com: I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up Too bad your digital camera wasn't just sitting there to take a good closeup picture of that empty bridge for the CG boys to consider..... |
#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
"Capt. JG" wrote:
"Rosalie B." wrote in message .. . The second incident was the first time we went down the ICW when we were on the Elizabeth River in Norfolk in November 2000. The Elizabeth River ferry paddle wheel came out from his dock and turned down the river along our port side. He started to pass us and got almost all the way past, and then decided to come over to the other side of the river, and turned almost right into us. I thought we would be skewered. We speeded up so he went behind us. So a little later on in the trip, when we encountered the Fort Fisher ferry, we tried to stay out of their way, because these ferries apparently don't deviate from their track, and the route isn't obvious on the charts (although it is on the road map) Interesting.. out here they definitely go around all sailboats. I have yet to see a ferry not follow the rules - although they occasionally hit the docks pretty hard :-) What you're describing really sounds dangerous. I mean how do you know what to do if commercial vessels don't follow the rules of the road? Strange. In the case of both ferries, we were not sailing, we were under power. But in all three cases they were overtaking. In any case, for large commercial vessels of any kind, we get out of their way (if at all possible) before it comes up to following or not following the rules. If necessary, Bob will circle the boat - especially if the ship in question is a tug and tow. We did have a close call once when crossing the Savannah River (motor sailing). The ICW cuts across while large ships are going up and down the river. (The same situation applies for the river in Jacksonville FL, but the sight lines are better.) There was a German warship coming in the river, and we could hear the very southern pilot on the radio warning sailboats in the ICW. I saw the superstructure of the ship (mostly the mast part) through the trees, but did not immediately recognize it as a ship - I thought it was just some funny kind of tree. There was another sailboat ahead of us, and I thought the pilot was talking to them. He could only see our mast, so he couldn't tell that the boat ahead of us was a catamaran. [When I called Bob's attention to the funny 'tree', he did recognize it as a ship.] But when we came out into the river, we saw the warship a very short distance away, and consequently we put on the power to get out of his way and onto the other side of the channel. |
#9
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:37:16 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote: Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of homeland security? The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very competent and courteous to me and I’ve had a number of professional dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn’t a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center. We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn’t change. There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I really didn’t want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot house and couldn’t see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose rudder authority. The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow. As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied to her. No question that we would have hit if I hadn’t luffed or taken some more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking? I can only think of three possibilities: 1) the ferry was using rule 9 of colregs. 2) a traffic seprartion zone is in effect (a chart would show that) 3) harbour regulations (would need to see them) Jack _________________________________________ Jack Dale ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor http://www.swiftsuresailing.com _________________________________________ |
#10
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Ferry encounter
"Rosalie B." wrote in message
... In the case of both ferries, we were not sailing, we were under power. But in all three cases they were overtaking. Sure thing. Doesn't make much difference, since it was an overtaking situation. In any case, for large commercial vessels of any kind, we get out of their way (if at all possible) before it comes up to following or not following the rules. If necessary, Bob will circle the boat - especially if the ship in question is a tug and tow. A good practice if it's practicable. And, of course, there is the issue about restricted maneuverability, which one keep in mind. This comes up all the time for cargo, tanker, tug, etc. situations out here. We did have a close call once when crossing the Savannah River (motor sailing). The ICW cuts across while large ships are going up and down the river. (The same situation applies for the river in Jacksonville FL, but the sight lines are better.) There was a German warship coming in the river, and we could hear the very southern pilot on the radio warning sailboats in the ICW. I saw the superstructure of the ship (mostly the mast part) through the trees, but did not immediately recognize it as a ship - I thought it was just some funny kind of tree. There was another sailboat ahead of us, and I thought the pilot was talking to them. He could only see our mast, so he couldn't tell that the boat ahead of us was a catamaran. [When I called Bob's attention to the funny 'tree', he did recognize it as a ship.] But when we came out into the river, we saw the warship a very short distance away, and consequently we put on the power to get out of his way and onto the other side of the channel. |
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