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#161
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
On May 28, 5:13*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2008 16:05:29 -0700 (PDT), Jay wrote: Okay, in an automobile, what device performs the do or die piece of information to indicate that the car's water pump is working or not? An automobile does not have the same needs as an outboard. For openers, the outboard is raw water cooled and the auto is a closed system. Major differences. The pumps are entirekly different too. The outboard needs a very different type of water pump. Comparing the cars water pump and cooling system to your outboard is as reasobale as comparing it to the space shuttle. Interesting that none of your response addressed the specific question I asked in the paragraph before. None of your response post answered the question posed: "in an automobile, what device performs the do or die piece of information to indicate that the car's water pump is working or not?" A temp gauge or red light? *IOW, to say that the water pump is running dry is also to say the motor is overheating, isn't it? * Two different things in an outboard. running dry is instant death to the water pump. A car doesn't have to suck up water from an outside sorce to lubricate the water pump. It can be run dry a lot longer than the one in your outboard. That's why a tell tale is MANDATORY. Actually another non-specific response to a specific question. Basically, I asked, true or false, if the water pump runs dry, does the motor overheat, And, of course, the only possible obvious answer is TRUE. Also, you stated "in an outboard, running dry is instant death to the water pump." And you know with absolute certainty that there are no outboard brands manufactured anywhere on the planet that can be run without immersing them in water (IOW, run dry with no damage whatsoever to the water pump). If there was an outboard motor made where water immersion was not necessary to run it and no damage would be done to the water pump doing so, then saying a tell-tale is MANDATORY would then be a false statement, wouldn't it? Doesn't one immediately lead to the other? *Therefore, it would seem like all the processes are really interconnected. Only if you don't understand the basic differences betyween the two dissimilar systems you are trying to compare. So you are basically saying a failed water pump would not cause engine overheating??? If a failed water pump DID CAUSE said overheating and resultant engine failure, then wouldn't my statement "Doesn't one immediately lead to the other?" be TRUE? So you're saying the water coming out of the pee holes is not water being released by the thermostat in the Suzuki DF2.5? *Yes or no? I have no idea where you are headed with this question. Not heading anywhere, just looking for a simple yes or no answer. The water coming out of the pee-hole is forced out by pressure from the water pump regardless if the thermostat is open or closed. So you are saying that there is no outboard manufactured on the face of the Earth wherein the discharge from the "pee hole" is governed by the thermostat? Finally, if this Suzuki outboard of mine runs for several years with water only INTERMITTENTLY coming out of the "pee" holes and it never overheats, will you still cling to the notion that it's a defective piece of equipment? *IOW, will you argue and continue to denigrate a successful and non-defective outboard motor design? Yes. If I can't always be sure with a quick glance that the water pump is working, I would not keep that motor. I would return it immediately even if I took a loss to do so. If that is the way it is suposed to be, then I would judge it to be a piece of poorly and improperly designed crap that can not be depended upon. I wouldn't use it, or own it, and If I sold it, I would have to disclose that problem with it. * So you would ignore the fact that the motor ran for years without constant discharge from the pee-holes and never overheated and/or seized-up. You would still call it a piece of crap. Why, because its longevity would prove you wrong and not being right is a mortal sin too great for you to absorb? Reminds me of the old adage, if it's not broke, don't fix it. IF that motor is designed to operate like it does WITHOUT constantly "peeing" and it continues to operate that way without overheating, damage to the water pump an/or seizure of the motor, then guess what? Your know-it-all statements are DEAD-ON W-R-O- N-G! A tough pill to swallow for egomaniacs but easier with a couple of bottles of Corona. And calling me a dimwit and saying Casady's calculations are "baloney" might imply you check night school for a refresher course in human relations/communication. Finally, is the goat that is sacrificed at the altar of the pee hole required to be a virgin nanny? *lol On further reflection, I bet you DO require a virgin goat for the sacrifice. -Jay (STILL sorting it all out and waiting for the final word from Wilbur Hubbard on the matter). |
#162
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
On May 29, 3:07*am, wrote:
Okay. You are a troll. I'm not going to waste any more effort on your mindless nonsense. Ooooh, classic response. Someone actually challenges you to back up your varied and wild pontifications and answer logical questions and when those questions begin to befuddle you and your stationary brain, replete with your preset notions about everything, you immediately start to call people names like dimwit, call what they ask "mindless nonsense" and tell others what they do are "baloney" and finally, when all else fails, you utilize the most infantile accusation of all --- "you're a troll." lol At least you made a wise choice in your last statement, mainly because nobody wants to hear your pompous, egomaniacal spewings anymore and you not participating in this thread again is the best contribution you could ever make to the thread. And, btw, when my little Suzuki is still putting along two years from now with water only being ejected INTERMITTENTLY through the urination hole, YOU'LL STILL BE WRONG!!!!! -Jay (appreciative of much of the fine advice he's received from the truly knowledgable gentlemen in this group and not going to miss the egomaniac one tiny bit) |
#163
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
wrote:
Okay. You are a troll. I'm not going to waste any more effort on your mindless nonsense. Now that's funny. Interesting to read about your experience with a trolling motor & Seaward Fox but still the irony of *you* calling somebody else a "mindless troll" is a riot. DSK |
#164
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
On Thu, 29 May 2008 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: And, btw, when my little Suzuki is still putting along two years from now with water only being ejected INTERMITTENTLY through the urination hole, YOU'LL STILL BE WRONG!!!!! I feel about the same way about an intermittant pilot hole as I do about a water temperature gauge that only works part of the time. BTW, it isn't practical to watch the pilot hole, especially when it is on the back of the motor, and you are driving from the front of the boat. It doesn't matter, I suppose, what the pilot hole does when you can't watch it anyway. Casady |
#165
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
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#167
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
On Thu, 29 May 2008 13:16:00 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 16:33:20 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 06:07:12 -0400, wrote: A car doesn't have to suck up water from an outside sorce to lubricate the water pump. It can be run dry a lot longer than the one in your outboard. That's an understatement. There is no contact between the impellor and the housing, and they can be run dry approximately forever. The engine on our jet boat doesn't even need a water pump. Water is bled from the drive. Casady I was always under the impression that automotive waterpumps gleaned a bit of lubrication for the shaft and seals from additives in the coolant. I agree that the impeller in an automotive water pump is completely immune from being run dry, but I'm not so sure about the shaft and seals. I think they will take quite a bit of abuse, though, unlike the very different situation for an outboard water pump impeller which will be ruined almost instantaneously if run dry. I said approximately forever, when I meant not much damage before the engine melts, and you are right about lubeing something else, not the rotor. I think glycol coolant comes with that additive, but I am not sure. Glycol is a better lube than water. Casady |
#168
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
On Thu, 29 May 2008 13:40:20 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 17:20:13 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 12:11:11 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 15:46:57 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 04:13:23 -0700 (PDT), Jay wrote: And, btw, when my little Suzuki is still putting along two years from now with water only being ejected INTERMITTENTLY through the urination hole, YOU'LL STILL BE WRONG!!!!! I feel about the same way about an intermittant pilot hole as I do about a water temperature gauge that only works part of the time. BTW, it isn't practical to watch the pilot hole, especially when it is on the back of the motor, and you are driving from the front of the boat. It doesn't matter, I suppose, what the pilot hole does when you can't watch it anyway. Casady Steering from the front of the boat? It's a 2.5 hp outboard with a tiller, Casady. Happen to possess a boat with a steering wheel and a 3 HP motor. certain that the water pump is working at startup, and being able to glance back occasionally and confirm you haven't clogged with sand, seaweed or a plastic baggie is pretty important. The pilot hole on all small outboards I've seen shoots out to the side so you can see it easily from your seat, by simply turning your head and looking towards the motor. As for the pilot hole, it is on the back of the 1/2,the 1 the 3 and the 5 my family has owned. Motors dating from the twenties to the fifties. I hear some would rebuild the water pump every couple of years. One next door neighbor has a fifty year old motor, the other next door forty. Never replaced anything on either of them. When did Evenrude quit making the half horse motor? Nobody I know paid any attention to the pilot hole. Casady Those motors probably pre-date flexible pump impellers, and may not have even had (or really needed) a pilot hole at all. The British Seagull has a metal impeller, too. Some of the small motors you mention are probably air cooled, anyway. :') On neightbor has a fifties 35 Johnson, the other a 90 Mercury, The 35 is on a home made plywood boat that has been glassed. The ninty is on a larger aluminum boat. Skiing, fishing and just riding around are what we do. The only cruising is one hour or so cocktail cruises. Rubbernecking at slow speed. I don't remember pilot holes on the half or the one, but the five it was on the back, and the boat had a forward wheel. Pilot holes were like Canada, everyone knows it exists, but nobody gives it much thought. Casady |
#169
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO ofthem, in tandem?
On Apr 26, 5:46*am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote You might "Ping" Roger as to why doubling the Horse Power doesn't necessarily mean double the speed. As has been pointed out here, I have no *formal* training in naval architecture and am therefore unqualified to comment. Roger Long Ive met several “…I aint had no college cause I learned everything from experience…” professionals over the years. However there is a significant difference between OJT and a formal post secondary program. Heck, even the USCG REC/OCMI recognizes the benefits of an organized program of study. In fact the USCG gives Sea Service credit for attending a 4 year maritime academy or completing select AB to Mate, Mate to Master programs and union training. Why? Because an organized program is superior to a half assed pieced together string of jobs hoping the worker will learn something along the way. In the learn-along-the-way approach there is absolutely NO set of standards or competencies to judge your ability compared to industry standards. The only way to know if a learn-as-you-go person knows xyz is if they attempt xyz and fail. Then with egg on their face they call it experience and move on adding that FAILURE to their list of learning credentials. Personally I don’t want my project to be some drop-out GED bozo’s “real world training” learning experience. Would you really want a surgeon who never went to an accredited USA medical school fix your heart? Another example are the “dynamic” management seminar leaders. They stand for 6 hours and say all sorts of interesting things and wow the crowd. But on closer conversation they are simply a one trick pony who knows a very narrow segment of the over all body of management literature/research. In other words they really don’t know **** but they sure talk smack. They lack both BREADTH and DEPTH of the subject but can fake it pretty good in a single limited topic. The real problem surfaces when a one trick pony is faced with a task outside their limited experience (some people might call it a comfort zone). Their failure rate soars because they lack a broad foundation of understanding to use as a guide. The learn as you go was the archaic boat building approach. As a result designers of old were EXTREMELY reluctant to do anything different or even modify a current design. So you had a design that worked and everybody used it. Of course, innovation was considered heresy; a departure from tradition. Innovation is a very scary thing to the ignorant cause they don’t understand it. Ignorance creates tradition AND fear. So you find some who are continually self promoting. Its an effort to compensate. Sorta like the little guys in the really B I G trucks. My advice is go back to school and get a degree. Im sure you would be amazed at how valuable all that experience you have becomes when combined with an organized program of study. Well I can hear a chicken clucking. Must mean fresh eggs. I think Ill scramble a few and head over to the lagoon for a day in the water. Life is good at N19-43 Blue Water Bob |
#170
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki 2.5 hp makes the final cut...but what about TWO of them, in tandem?
On Thu, 29 May 2008 11:52:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote: So you find some who are continually self promoting. Its an effort to compensate. Sorta like the little guys in the really B I G trucks. Few long haul truckers pick the size of their truck. Mostly, they are as big as the law allows. Maximum payload for the labor costs. Best use of the fuel. This is mostly not true in town, although gasoline delivery and garbage trucks come in large sizes. A glance at the lunch counter at an Interstate truck stop will reveal that drivers come in all the usual sizes. The biggest common compensation truck would be the one ton pickup with the dual rear tires. There are many who drive a pickup because cars have turned into tiny ****boxes, not as a penis substitute. Corvettes on the other hand... The price of gas will cause a reverse trend. We have a 14 mpg street tank SUV and we just bought a 28 mpg ****box. Used, 10k miles, seven grand. Casady |
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