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#142
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
wrote in message ... The impeller in a car waterpump is METAL, for openers. Outboard waterpumps have to work in a very different environment, and so they are made of flexible materials. They are in contact with the insides of the pump housing to maintain a needed seal, and the material also can crack due to plain old aging and loss of flexibility. An outboard impeller can deteriorate from just age, without having any hours on it. That's why 2 years is a good time for routinely changing them even if they have very low hours on them. Likewise, an event where a lot of sand or mud gets sucked into it, or it is allowed to run while dry will cause an early death. Running dry ruins them almost instantly. They aren't ****. They are designed for a different set of rules than a car water pump. Boats are not automobiles, nor are they airplanes. An impeller of the type commonly used on outboards and small marine engines can have too much flexibility. The vanes need to be quite stiff as, after they have been pushed inwards by the cam, it is their inherent stiffness that allows them to spring back quickly and thereby suck in more water. I found this out when an impeller that seemed nice and flexible would pump just fine at slow revs but would cease to pump at higher revs because the vanes were too flexible to recover in the time available. I changed it for a stiffer one and problem disappeared. I have never known one to crack and think they would have to be out of use for a long time before this happened. Do not forget that there is always one vane bent inward when the engine is not in use so it pays to turn the engine over occasionally to move the impeller around a bit. Running dry is certainly sudden death to them and so I like to smear the impeller with soluble oil (hand cleaner) when first starting unprimed in the spring. |
#143
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On Thu, 22 May 2008 12:06:29 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 22 May 2008 15:42:48 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Wed, 21 May 2008 22:16:49 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 22 May 2008 01:11:53 GMT, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Sat, 17 May 2008 07:21:53 -0400, wrote: You should plan on replacing the impeller every other season regardless of anything else, including whether the motor was even used or not. It's not a hard job, but it's an important bit of maintenance. 10 000 miles in a car, at 50 MPH is the same two hundred hours that is a lot for most small boats. The family ride reached 170 000 miles with a set of spark plugs that it didn't need, at 100 000 miles. Then it developed low compression on one cylinder, and I figured the writing was on the wall and had them put in a rebuilt motor with a warrenty. Used up a motor with lots of miles, but the water pump never caused trouble. Casady Are you on drugs? Seriously! I seriously believe that water pumps shouldn't wear out in only a few hundred hours. How many hours is 170 000 miles? Yacht engines get used little on the average. 200 hours per year is one figure I read. The family auto and everything on it have been trouble free for about 5000 hours Gas oil and tires and that was it. Why are boat pumps ****? Casady The impeller in a car waterpump is METAL, for openers. Outboard waterpumps have to work in a very different environment, and so they are made of flexible materials. They are in contact with the insides of the pump housing to maintain a needed seal, and the material also can crack due to plain old aging and loss of flexibility. An outboard impeller can deteriorate from just age, without having any hours on it. That's why 2 years is a good time for routinely changing them even if they have very low hours on them. Likewise, an event where a lot of sand or mud gets sucked into it, or it is allowed to run while dry will cause an early death. Running dry ruins them almost instantly. They aren't ****. Good. They are designed for a different set of rules than a car water pump. Boats are not automobiles, nor are they airplanes. That plastic impeller can perhaps have plasticisers leach out over time, making the thing brittle. I thought all the parts of the car were connected to the odometer so they can hang on to existance until the warrantee is up. Casady |
#144
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
"Edgar" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... The impeller in a car waterpump is METAL, for openers. Outboard waterpumps have to work in a very different environment, and so they are made of flexible materials. They are in contact with the insides of the pump housing to maintain a needed seal, and the material also can crack due to plain old aging and loss of flexibility. An outboard impeller can deteriorate from just age, without having any hours on it. That's why 2 years is a good time for routinely changing them even if they have very low hours on them. Likewise, an event where a lot of sand or mud gets sucked into it, or it is allowed to run while dry will cause an early death. Running dry ruins them almost instantly. They aren't ****. They are designed for a different set of rules than a car water pump. Boats are not automobiles, nor are they airplanes. An impeller of the type commonly used on outboards and small marine engines can have too much flexibility. The vanes need to be quite stiff as, after they have been pushed inwards by the cam, it is their inherent stiffness that allows them to spring back quickly and thereby suck in more water. I found this out when an impeller that seemed nice and flexible would pump just fine at slow revs but would cease to pump at higher revs because the vanes were too flexible to recover in the time available. I changed it for a stiffer one and problem disappeared. I have never known one to crack and think they would have to be out of use for a long time before this happened. Do not forget that there is always one vane bent inward when the engine is not in use so it pays to turn the engine over occasionally to move the impeller around a bit. Running dry is certainly sudden death to them and so I like to smear the impeller with soluble oil (hand cleaner) when first starting unprimed in the spring. Depends of the brand and model of the motor. I have a 2 HP Seagull that has a rigid impeller that works by centrifugal force. It can be run dry without damaging it because it doesn't rub on the housing like the rubber impellers do. There is no bending, no binding and no reason to turn the engine once in a while to keep one vane from bending and cracking. The Seagull is clearly superior to any new Suzuki. It will live in the marine environment for 20-30 years no problem. The Suzuki might last ten years with meticulous care. -- Gregory Hall |
#145
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On 2008-05-22 16:48:50 -0400, (Richard
Casady) said: I thought all the parts of the car were connected to the odometer so they can hang on to existance until the warrantee is up. No, it's just good engineering. I was warned by the shop manager to replace our car's timing belt at the 45k checkup rather than the manual's 60k. I forgot, and it broke at 46.6k. Now that reliability is very important to buyers, the car companies have learned to improve it. Can anyone remember having to replace tires every 7k miles, tune-ups twice a year, ball joint replacement? -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
#146
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (Update? From The SuzukiMechanics and Bigwigs)
I've talked to several Suzuki mechanics and to Customer Service at USA
Suzuki Marine and here are "answers" (i.e. "information") I received. 1--The amount of water squirting out of the pilot (pee) hole is determined by the rpms of the motor; the faster the motor revs, the bigger the stream. 2--The idle setting on the motor is 1800 rpm (which seemed quite peppy to me) but is needed to be that fast to keep the impeller pumping water. 3--At some speeds, there will not be a "stream" of water but only a "mist" that one can feel by putting one's hand in front of the pilot "pee" hole. 4--The manual still sucks. 5--There was a recsall issued by Suzuki for certain motors within a serial number range for a defecvtive cooling system. My motor was not in that group. And now for what REALLY ****ED ME OFF! I've owned Suzuki motorcycles and ATVs and have always like products made in Japan; however, in looking at the motor plate today I saw the words MADE IN THAILAND. GRRRRRRRRR...even the outsourcees are not outsourcing. |
#147
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (Update On Info From Mechanicsand Suzuki Customer Service)
I've talked to several Suzuki mechanics and to Customer Service at
USA Suzuki Marine and here are "answers" (i.e. "information") I received. 1--The amount of water squirting out of the pilot (pee) hole is determined by the rpms of the motor; the faster the motor revs, the bigger the stream. 2--The idle setting on the motor is 1800 rpm (which seemed quite peppy to me) but is needed to be that fast to keep the impeller pumping water at idle/low speed. 3--At some speeds, there will not be a "stream" of water but only a "mist" that one can feel by putting one's hand in front of the pilot "pee" hole. 4--The manual still sucks. 5--There was a recall issued by Suzuki for certain motors within a serial number range for a defective cooling system. My motor was not in that group. And now for what REALLY ****ED ME OFF! I've owned Suzuki motorcycles and ATVs and have always liked the quality and style of products made in Japan; however, in looking at the motor plate today I saw the words MADE IN THAILAND stamped therein. GRRRRRRRRR...even our outsourcees are now outsourcing. Where will it all end? -Jay (Who may be reliving dreams about that 5HP air-cooled Briggs & Stratton outboard he passed up for $699 although it was probably made in Bangladesh, Nigeria or high in the mountains of Nepal..lol) |
#148
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
"Gregory Hall" wrote in message ... Depends of the brand and model of the motor. I have a 2 HP Seagull that has a rigid impeller that works by centrifugal force. It can be run dry without damaging it because it doesn't rub on the housing like the rubber impellers do. There is no bending, no binding and no reason to turn the engine once in a while to keep one vane from bending and cracking. The Seagull is clearly superior to any new Suzuki. It will live in the marine environment for 20-30 years no problem. The Suzuki might last ten years with meticulous care. -- Gregory Hall You are right about Seagulls. Apart from my little Yamaha I have a Seagull Century Plus that I got new in 1954 and I will never part with it. It is really useful to be able to run it up dry on the bench so that you are sure all is in order before you take it to the boat and it has a large propeller that will push my 15' 6" wooden dinghy up to hull speed. It is heavy, noisy and oily but I know it will not stop running for anything as long as you feed it clean fuel. If it should stop you can fix any likely problem in the boat with just three simple tools. "They don't make them like that any more!" |
#149
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (Update On Info From Mechanics and Suzuki Customer Service)
Well... my original question is addressed in #3, At least we know
there IS and indicator at all times of impeller operation. That's good. But now I have a new question brought on by #2. I don't think I've ever tried to put any motor in gear at 1800 rpm. Are the backs of your boat seats equipped with head rests? Seems like whiplash may be a problem ;-) Seriously though, stay in touch. I'm interested to know how it all works out over time. Rick ---- still think you did better than the Briggs & Stratton On Fri, 23 May 08, Jay wrote: I've talked to several Suzuki mechanics and to Customer Service at USA Suzuki Marine and here are "answers" (i.e. "information") I received. 1--The amount of water squirting out of the pilot (pee) hole is determined by the rpms of the motor; the faster the motor revs, the bigger the stream. 2--The idle setting on the motor is 1800 rpm (which seemed quite peppy to me) but is needed to be that fast to keep the impeller pumping water at idle/low speed. 3--At some speeds, there will not be a "stream" of water but only a "mist" that one can feel by putting one's hand in front of the pilot "pee" hole. 4--The manual still sucks. 5--There was a recall issued by Suzuki for certain motors within a serial number range for a defective cooling system. My motor was not in that group. And now for what REALLY ****ED ME OFF! I've owned Suzuki motorcycles and ATVs and have always liked the quality and style of products made in Japan; however, in looking at the motor plate today I saw the words MADE IN THAILAND stamped therein. GRRRRRRRRR...even our outsourcees are now outsourcing. Where will it all end? -Jay (Who may be reliving dreams about that 5HP air-cooled Briggs & Stratton outboard he passed up for $699 although it was probably made in Bangladesh, Nigeria or high in the mountains of Nepal..lol) |
#150
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system isworking!)
On May 17, 10:45*pm, Jay wrote:
On May 17, 9:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote: Not knowing anything about OB cooling systems, a couple questions. 1. If the OB has a thermostat, can it be fully closed? 2. With the OB's you are familiar with, can the engine overheat even when the pee hole has a stream? I'm thinking Jay's new OB is designed to discharge all cooling water through the thermostat, and if it's shut, no stream. Though I know OB owners basically worship that peehole stream as the Holy Grail of engine heat control, it may not so important with this small engine. * Vic, I think you may have the answer to the way the Suzuki 2.5 works and the other confusion is just the result of a crappily-written manual. From what I've gathered about this little OB, the water does not begin to squirt out the "holes" until the motor reached a certain operating temperature and the thermostat opens and releases the water to be squirted out of the holes. |
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