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Larry
 
Posts: n/a
Default DAMMIT ICOM WHY SO CHEAP?!!

See the picture on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I took with a
tiny little Logitech camera today while installing a whole suite of
Icom radios into my buddy Geoffrey's Amel Sharpi ketch we brought to
Charleston from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks back. Gotta have all
the toys....(c;

The Icom M802 HF SSB/GMDSS/DSC radio sells, without the antenna tuner
from Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta for $2,399 + tax and recappable
tires. The AT-140 antenna tuner adds another $480 and tax to that
total, almost THREE GRAND in HF radio......

Then WHY SO CHEAP, ICOM?....DAMMIT!!

1) The tiny little Japanese 6-pin plug that's the control output for
the tuner is a little fragile plastic plug that's NOT sealed in any
way. It plugs into a tiny, little Japanese male outlet on the main
SSB radio. This plug, if you are to install the proper cable (not
included), instead of an overpriced Icom cable with the plugs already
on them, making them impossible to thread through cable runs inside
the boat loaded up with other wires, MUST BE ASSEMBLED! Notice how
the plug is a SIX PIN PLUG....

Icom only uses FOUR of the 6 pins in this tiny little cheap connector
AND ONLY PROVIDES FOUR TEE-TINY LITTLE PINS LEAVING ZERO ROOM FOR
ASSEMBLY ERROR ABOARD A ROCKING BOAT! You don't even get the OTHER
TWO PINS it doesn't use as goof-up spares! These loose female contact
are VERY fragile, very small and easy to bend or break. The contacts
probably cost $1/thousand at the OEM order level.....SO WHY DID ICOM
ONLY PUT FOUR OF THEM IN THE PLUG KIT?!!.....&#)(*&@_#)(#@)$(*&#@%$
(EXPLETIVES DELETED) I got them installed without incident but what
if someone makes a tiny mistake and breaks one? Why, oh why, oh why
should he have to WAIT WEEKS FOR REPLACEMENTS OF SUCH CHEAP PARTS??!!!

2)....This same cheap, unsealed plastic inline connector is hanging
out of the AT-140 antenna tuner on a little piece of cable, OUT IN THE
WEATHER or on some boats IN THE HUMID, DAMP, CORRODING BILGE under
some settee someplace. WHY CAN'T A $500 ANTENNA TUNER HAVE SEALING,
WATERPROOF CABLE CONNECTORS MOUNTED RIGHT INTO THE ANTENNA TUNER'S
WATERPROOF HOUSING??!! Hello? Icom? Does anyone at Icom own a boat?
Ever worked on a boat? Ever seen an unprotected connector eaten by
electrolysis because it was exposed to SEAWATER with 13.8VDC on it?!!
Arrgh!.....(puke). Ok, so we'll get rid of this cheap little
connector, right? The ANTENNA TUNER INSTRUCTION MANUAL shows that
inside the tuner this useless pigtail wire is screwed into a TERMINAL
BLOCK on the main PC board, on a European-style terminal block made
for bare wires....right? WRONG AGAIN, FISH BREATH!! The damned
pigtail is SOLDERED to fine little wires that are soldered to the PC
board WHERE THE TERMINAL BLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO GO!!

DAMMIT ICOM, WHY IS THIS $500 TUNER MISSING THE LITTLE TERMINAL BLOCK
THAT COSTS AN OEM $1.39?!!! DAMNED CHEAPSKATES!!

My plan was to open the tuner, unscrew the wires from the terminal
block on the PC board and install the custom cable I pulled into the
wireways in the boat, through the waterproof cable squeezer straight
into the MISSING TERMINAL BLOCK!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!

I cannot pull the main PC board out of the tuner because of all the
HOT GLUED PARTS making disassembly impossible. I'm afraid if I
unsolder the pigtail cable from the little wires soldered to the
board, I may also unsolder the little wires from the unremovable
bottom of the main PC board.

I feel just like the Aflac Duck walking out of the barber shop with
Yogi Berra in the commercial.......AHHHHHHH!!!!GGGGhhh!!!!

Stupid Icom for a unit that retails for $3000 to be constructed so
cheaply!! This ISN'T a consumer ham radio for someone's
hamshack...THIS IS A BOAT RADIO!!! ALL connectors should be
WATERPROOF, EVEN ON THE MAIN CHASSIS!! It's HUMID in a boat!!!

3) The remote unit, that may be mounted outside on some boats, IS
waterproof. it has rubber keys, nice sealed box.....But,
ARRGH!....THE CABLE CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF IT IS A LITTLE MINIATURE
DIN CONNECTOR OFF SOME HAM RADIO MADE FOR SOMEONE'S CAR!! Water is
gonna get into that tiny connector with DC power on it and just EAT
THE PINS RIGHT OFF IT!! Well, Duhhhh!!!.......

Well, I'm gonna have another Newcastle English Ale and stop trying to
figure out how I'm going to put the control cable to the tuner,
tonight. I'll think more about it in the morning.....

I just wanted every one of you to know how this nice radio (otherwise)
is made. Its technology is certainly a wonder....but its construction
is NOT A MARINE RADIO!!!

PS - the matching M602 IS sealed like a marine radio should be. It
has an EXTERNAL heat sink outside the sealed case. THE M802 HAS A FAN
THAT DRAWS SALT AIR INTO THE CABINET TO COOL IT! Think about how
wonderful that's gonna be in 3 years.....(c;

Arrgh.......Any Icom reps or dealers wanna explain this to
me?.....Planned Obsolescense? Payback for losing WW2? Why....WHY?!!

Larry W4CSC
3rd Mate Engineering
S/V "Claire's Navie"
CAREFULLY soldering the FOUR LITTLE PINS you provided........

Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.
  #2   Report Post  
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default DAMMIT ICOM WHY SO CHEAP?!!

I couldn't even SEE those pins to solder them... I had to hire somebody with
better eyesight to do it!

--


Keith
__
Dogs have owners; Cats have staff.
"Larry" wrote in message
...
See the picture on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I took with a
tiny little Logitech camera today while installing a whole suite of
Icom radios into my buddy Geoffrey's Amel Sharpi ketch we brought to
Charleston from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks back. Gotta have all
the toys....(c;

The Icom M802 HF SSB/GMDSS/DSC radio sells, without the antenna tuner
from Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta for $2,399 + tax and recappable
tires. The AT-140 antenna tuner adds another $480 and tax to that
total, almost THREE GRAND in HF radio......

Then WHY SO CHEAP, ICOM?....DAMMIT!!

1) The tiny little Japanese 6-pin plug that's the control output for
the tuner is a little fragile plastic plug that's NOT sealed in any
way. It plugs into a tiny, little Japanese male outlet on the main
SSB radio. This plug, if you are to install the proper cable (not
included), instead of an overpriced Icom cable with the plugs already
on them, making them impossible to thread through cable runs inside
the boat loaded up with other wires, MUST BE ASSEMBLED! Notice how
the plug is a SIX PIN PLUG....

Icom only uses FOUR of the 6 pins in this tiny little cheap connector
AND ONLY PROVIDES FOUR TEE-TINY LITTLE PINS LEAVING ZERO ROOM FOR
ASSEMBLY ERROR ABOARD A ROCKING BOAT! You don't even get the OTHER
TWO PINS it doesn't use as goof-up spares! These loose female contact
are VERY fragile, very small and easy to bend or break. The contacts
probably cost $1/thousand at the OEM order level.....SO WHY DID ICOM
ONLY PUT FOUR OF THEM IN THE PLUG KIT?!!.....&#)(*&@_#)(#@)$(*&#@%$
(EXPLETIVES DELETED) I got them installed without incident but what
if someone makes a tiny mistake and breaks one? Why, oh why, oh why
should he have to WAIT WEEKS FOR REPLACEMENTS OF SUCH CHEAP PARTS??!!!

2)....This same cheap, unsealed plastic inline connector is hanging
out of the AT-140 antenna tuner on a little piece of cable, OUT IN THE
WEATHER or on some boats IN THE HUMID, DAMP, CORRODING BILGE under
some settee someplace. WHY CAN'T A $500 ANTENNA TUNER HAVE SEALING,
WATERPROOF CABLE CONNECTORS MOUNTED RIGHT INTO THE ANTENNA TUNER'S
WATERPROOF HOUSING??!! Hello? Icom? Does anyone at Icom own a boat?
Ever worked on a boat? Ever seen an unprotected connector eaten by
electrolysis because it was exposed to SEAWATER with 13.8VDC on it?!!
Arrgh!.....(puke). Ok, so we'll get rid of this cheap little
connector, right? The ANTENNA TUNER INSTRUCTION MANUAL shows that
inside the tuner this useless pigtail wire is screwed into a TERMINAL
BLOCK on the main PC board, on a European-style terminal block made
for bare wires....right? WRONG AGAIN, FISH BREATH!! The damned
pigtail is SOLDERED to fine little wires that are soldered to the PC
board WHERE THE TERMINAL BLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO GO!!

DAMMIT ICOM, WHY IS THIS $500 TUNER MISSING THE LITTLE TERMINAL BLOCK
THAT COSTS AN OEM $1.39?!!! DAMNED CHEAPSKATES!!

My plan was to open the tuner, unscrew the wires from the terminal
block on the PC board and install the custom cable I pulled into the
wireways in the boat, through the waterproof cable squeezer straight
into the MISSING TERMINAL BLOCK!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!

I cannot pull the main PC board out of the tuner because of all the
HOT GLUED PARTS making disassembly impossible. I'm afraid if I
unsolder the pigtail cable from the little wires soldered to the
board, I may also unsolder the little wires from the unremovable
bottom of the main PC board.

I feel just like the Aflac Duck walking out of the barber shop with
Yogi Berra in the commercial.......AHHHHHHH!!!!GGGGhhh!!!!

Stupid Icom for a unit that retails for $3000 to be constructed so
cheaply!! This ISN'T a consumer ham radio for someone's
hamshack...THIS IS A BOAT RADIO!!! ALL connectors should be
WATERPROOF, EVEN ON THE MAIN CHASSIS!! It's HUMID in a boat!!!

3) The remote unit, that may be mounted outside on some boats, IS
waterproof. it has rubber keys, nice sealed box.....But,
ARRGH!....THE CABLE CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF IT IS A LITTLE MINIATURE
DIN CONNECTOR OFF SOME HAM RADIO MADE FOR SOMEONE'S CAR!! Water is
gonna get into that tiny connector with DC power on it and just EAT
THE PINS RIGHT OFF IT!! Well, Duhhhh!!!.......

Well, I'm gonna have another Newcastle English Ale and stop trying to
figure out how I'm going to put the control cable to the tuner,
tonight. I'll think more about it in the morning.....

I just wanted every one of you to know how this nice radio (otherwise)
is made. Its technology is certainly a wonder....but its construction
is NOT A MARINE RADIO!!!

PS - the matching M602 IS sealed like a marine radio should be. It
has an EXTERNAL heat sink outside the sealed case. THE M802 HAS A FAN
THAT DRAWS SALT AIR INTO THE CABINET TO COOL IT! Think about how
wonderful that's gonna be in 3 years.....(c;

Arrgh.......Any Icom reps or dealers wanna explain this to
me?.....Planned Obsolescense? Payback for losing WW2? Why....WHY?!!

Larry W4CSC
3rd Mate Engineering
S/V "Claire's Navie"
CAREFULLY soldering the FOUR LITTLE PINS you provided........

Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.



  #3   Report Post  
Wayne.B
 
Posts: n/a
Default DAMMIT ICOM WHY SO CHEAP?!!

ICOM makes pretty good gear for the most part but there are other
choices. Knowing what you know now, why not order two or three
plugs in the beginning? After testing it should be relatively easy to
seal the connectors with heat shrink tubing and/or 5200.

===============================================

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:58:31 GMT, (Larry) wrote:
See the picture on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I took with a
tiny little Logitech camera today while installing a whole suite of
Icom radios into my buddy Geoffrey's Amel Sharpi ketch we brought to
Charleston from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks back. Gotta have all
the toys....(c;

The Icom M802 HF SSB/GMDSS/DSC radio sells, without the antenna tuner
from Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta for $2,399 + tax and recappable
tires. The AT-140 antenna tuner adds another $480 and tax to that
total, almost THREE GRAND in HF radio......

Then WHY SO CHEAP, ICOM?....DAMMIT!!

1) The tiny little Japanese 6-pin plug that's the control output for
the tuner is a little fragile plastic plug that's NOT sealed in any
way. It plugs into a tiny, little Japanese male outlet on the main
SSB radio. This plug, if you are to install the proper cable (not
included), instead of an overpriced Icom cable with the plugs already
on them, making them impossible to thread through cable runs inside
the boat loaded up with other wires, MUST BE ASSEMBLED! Notice how
the plug is a SIX PIN PLUG....

Icom only uses FOUR of the 6 pins in this tiny little cheap connector
AND ONLY PROVIDES FOUR TEE-TINY LITTLE PINS LEAVING ZERO ROOM FOR
ASSEMBLY ERROR ABOARD A ROCKING BOAT! You don't even get the OTHER
TWO PINS it doesn't use as goof-up spares! These loose female contact
are VERY fragile, very small and easy to bend or break. The contacts
probably cost $1/thousand at the OEM order level.....SO WHY DID ICOM
ONLY PUT FOUR OF THEM IN THE PLUG KIT?!!.....&#)(*&@_#)(#@)$(*&#@%$
(EXPLETIVES DELETED) I got them installed without incident but what
if someone makes a tiny mistake and breaks one? Why, oh why, oh why
should he have to WAIT WEEKS FOR REPLACEMENTS OF SUCH CHEAP PARTS??!!!

2)....This same cheap, unsealed plastic inline connector is hanging
out of the AT-140 antenna tuner on a little piece of cable, OUT IN THE
WEATHER or on some boats IN THE HUMID, DAMP, CORRODING BILGE under
some settee someplace. WHY CAN'T A $500 ANTENNA TUNER HAVE SEALING,
WATERPROOF CABLE CONNECTORS MOUNTED RIGHT INTO THE ANTENNA TUNER'S
WATERPROOF HOUSING??!! Hello? Icom? Does anyone at Icom own a boat?
Ever worked on a boat? Ever seen an unprotected connector eaten by
electrolysis because it was exposed to SEAWATER with 13.8VDC on it?!!
Arrgh!.....(puke). Ok, so we'll get rid of this cheap little
connector, right? The ANTENNA TUNER INSTRUCTION MANUAL shows that
inside the tuner this useless pigtail wire is screwed into a TERMINAL
BLOCK on the main PC board, on a European-style terminal block made
for bare wires....right? WRONG AGAIN, FISH BREATH!! The damned
pigtail is SOLDERED to fine little wires that are soldered to the PC
board WHERE THE TERMINAL BLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO GO!!

DAMMIT ICOM, WHY IS THIS $500 TUNER MISSING THE LITTLE TERMINAL BLOCK
THAT COSTS AN OEM $1.39?!!! DAMNED CHEAPSKATES!!

My plan was to open the tuner, unscrew the wires from the terminal
block on the PC board and install the custom cable I pulled into the
wireways in the boat, through the waterproof cable squeezer straight
into the MISSING TERMINAL BLOCK!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!

I cannot pull the main PC board out of the tuner because of all the
HOT GLUED PARTS making disassembly impossible. I'm afraid if I
unsolder the pigtail cable from the little wires soldered to the
board, I may also unsolder the little wires from the unremovable
bottom of the main PC board.

I feel just like the Aflac Duck walking out of the barber shop with
Yogi Berra in the commercial.......AHHHHHHH!!!!GGGGhhh!!!!

Stupid Icom for a unit that retails for $3000 to be constructed so
cheaply!! This ISN'T a consumer ham radio for someone's
hamshack...THIS IS A BOAT RADIO!!! ALL connectors should be
WATERPROOF, EVEN ON THE MAIN CHASSIS!! It's HUMID in a boat!!!

3) The remote unit, that may be mounted outside on some boats, IS
waterproof. it has rubber keys, nice sealed box.....But,
ARRGH!....THE CABLE CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF IT IS A LITTLE MINIATURE
DIN CONNECTOR OFF SOME HAM RADIO MADE FOR SOMEONE'S CAR!! Water is
gonna get into that tiny connector with DC power on it and just EAT
THE PINS RIGHT OFF IT!! Well, Duhhhh!!!.......

Well, I'm gonna have another Newcastle English Ale and stop trying to
figure out how I'm going to put the control cable to the tuner,
tonight. I'll think more about it in the morning.....

I just wanted every one of you to know how this nice radio (otherwise)
is made. Its technology is certainly a wonder....but its construction
is NOT A MARINE RADIO!!!

PS - the matching M602 IS sealed like a marine radio should be. It
has an EXTERNAL heat sink outside the sealed case. THE M802 HAS A FAN
THAT DRAWS SALT AIR INTO THE CABINET TO COOL IT! Think about how
wonderful that's gonna be in 3 years.....(c;

Arrgh.......Any Icom reps or dealers wanna explain this to
me?.....Planned Obsolescense? Payback for losing WW2? Why....WHY?!!

Larry W4CSC
3rd Mate Engineering
S/V "Claire's Navie"
CAREFULLY soldering the FOUR LITTLE PINS you provided........

Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.


  #4   Report Post  
PeteAlbright
 
Posts: n/a
Default DAMMIT ICOM WHY SO CHEAP?!!

Larry,

I know that as a HAM, you want to enjoy the installation process yourself,
but WHY spend so much money. I have no affiliations, but check out the
following links:

www.hfradio.com
http://www.waypoints.com/PDF/03catalog18-25.pdf

You can get the M802, the AT-140, 10 meters of coax/control cables to the
AT-140, and a DSC watch antenna for $2,656. This is a complete system,
bench tested before shipment.

I don't disagree with your observations about the construction and/or
quality issues.

Pete Albright
s/v Nancy Ross
Tampa, FL



"Larry" wrote in message
...
See the picture on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I took with a
tiny little Logitech camera today while installing a whole suite of
Icom radios into my buddy Geoffrey's Amel Sharpi ketch we brought to
Charleston from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks back. Gotta have all
the toys....(c;

The Icom M802 HF SSB/GMDSS/DSC radio sells, without the antenna tuner
from Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta for $2,399 + tax and recappable
tires. The AT-140 antenna tuner adds another $480 and tax to that
total, almost THREE GRAND in HF radio......

Then WHY SO CHEAP, ICOM?....DAMMIT!!

1) The tiny little Japanese 6-pin plug that's the control output for
the tuner is a little fragile plastic plug that's NOT sealed in any
way. It plugs into a tiny, little Japanese male outlet on the main
SSB radio. This plug, if you are to install the proper cable (not
included), instead of an overpriced Icom cable with the plugs already
on them, making them impossible to thread through cable runs inside
the boat loaded up with other wires, MUST BE ASSEMBLED! Notice how
the plug is a SIX PIN PLUG....

Icom only uses FOUR of the 6 pins in this tiny little cheap connector
AND ONLY PROVIDES FOUR TEE-TINY LITTLE PINS LEAVING ZERO ROOM FOR
ASSEMBLY ERROR ABOARD A ROCKING BOAT! You don't even get the OTHER
TWO PINS it doesn't use as goof-up spares! These loose female contact
are VERY fragile, very small and easy to bend or break. The contacts
probably cost $1/thousand at the OEM order level.....SO WHY DID ICOM
ONLY PUT FOUR OF THEM IN THE PLUG KIT?!!.....&#)(*&@_#)(#@)$(*&#@%$
(EXPLETIVES DELETED) I got them installed without incident but what
if someone makes a tiny mistake and breaks one? Why, oh why, oh why
should he have to WAIT WEEKS FOR REPLACEMENTS OF SUCH CHEAP PARTS??!!!

2)....This same cheap, unsealed plastic inline connector is hanging
out of the AT-140 antenna tuner on a little piece of cable, OUT IN THE
WEATHER or on some boats IN THE HUMID, DAMP, CORRODING BILGE under
some settee someplace. WHY CAN'T A $500 ANTENNA TUNER HAVE SEALING,
WATERPROOF CABLE CONNECTORS MOUNTED RIGHT INTO THE ANTENNA TUNER'S
WATERPROOF HOUSING??!! Hello? Icom? Does anyone at Icom own a boat?
Ever worked on a boat? Ever seen an unprotected connector eaten by
electrolysis because it was exposed to SEAWATER with 13.8VDC on it?!!
Arrgh!.....(puke). Ok, so we'll get rid of this cheap little
connector, right? The ANTENNA TUNER INSTRUCTION MANUAL shows that
inside the tuner this useless pigtail wire is screwed into a TERMINAL
BLOCK on the main PC board, on a European-style terminal block made
for bare wires....right? WRONG AGAIN, FISH BREATH!! The damned
pigtail is SOLDERED to fine little wires that are soldered to the PC
board WHERE THE TERMINAL BLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO GO!!

DAMMIT ICOM, WHY IS THIS $500 TUNER MISSING THE LITTLE TERMINAL BLOCK
THAT COSTS AN OEM $1.39?!!! DAMNED CHEAPSKATES!!

My plan was to open the tuner, unscrew the wires from the terminal
block on the PC board and install the custom cable I pulled into the
wireways in the boat, through the waterproof cable squeezer straight
into the MISSING TERMINAL BLOCK!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!

I cannot pull the main PC board out of the tuner because of all the
HOT GLUED PARTS making disassembly impossible. I'm afraid if I
unsolder the pigtail cable from the little wires soldered to the
board, I may also unsolder the little wires from the unremovable
bottom of the main PC board.

I feel just like the Aflac Duck walking out of the barber shop with
Yogi Berra in the commercial.......AHHHHHHH!!!!GGGGhhh!!!!

Stupid Icom for a unit that retails for $3000 to be constructed so
cheaply!! This ISN'T a consumer ham radio for someone's
hamshack...THIS IS A BOAT RADIO!!! ALL connectors should be
WATERPROOF, EVEN ON THE MAIN CHASSIS!! It's HUMID in a boat!!!

3) The remote unit, that may be mounted outside on some boats, IS
waterproof. it has rubber keys, nice sealed box.....But,
ARRGH!....THE CABLE CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF IT IS A LITTLE MINIATURE
DIN CONNECTOR OFF SOME HAM RADIO MADE FOR SOMEONE'S CAR!! Water is
gonna get into that tiny connector with DC power on it and just EAT
THE PINS RIGHT OFF IT!! Well, Duhhhh!!!.......

Well, I'm gonna have another Newcastle English Ale and stop trying to
figure out how I'm going to put the control cable to the tuner,
tonight. I'll think more about it in the morning.....

I just wanted every one of you to know how this nice radio (otherwise)
is made. Its technology is certainly a wonder....but its construction
is NOT A MARINE RADIO!!!

PS - the matching M602 IS sealed like a marine radio should be. It
has an EXTERNAL heat sink outside the sealed case. THE M802 HAS A FAN
THAT DRAWS SALT AIR INTO THE CABINET TO COOL IT! Think about how
wonderful that's gonna be in 3 years.....(c;

Arrgh.......Any Icom reps or dealers wanna explain this to
me?.....Planned Obsolescense? Payback for losing WW2? Why....WHY?!!

Larry W4CSC
3rd Mate Engineering
S/V "Claire's Navie"
CAREFULLY soldering the FOUR LITTLE PINS you provided........

Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.



  #5   Report Post  
Larry W4CSC
 
Posts: n/a
Default DAMMIT ICOM WHY SO CHEAP?!!

I know about all the discounts. Check Sailnet's prices.....

Even if the damned radio/tuner were $995, they could STILL afford to
do better on CONNECTORS.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:11:40 GMT, "PeteAlbright"
wrote:

Larry,

I know that as a HAM, you want to enjoy the installation process yourself,
but WHY spend so much money. I have no affiliations, but check out the
following links:

www.hfradio.com
http://www.waypoints.com/PDF/03catalog18-25.pdf

You can get the M802, the AT-140, 10 meters of coax/control cables to the
AT-140, and a DSC watch antenna for $2,656. This is a complete system,
bench tested before shipment.

I don't disagree with your observations about the construction and/or
quality issues.

Pete Albright
s/v Nancy Ross
Tampa, FL



"Larry" wrote in message
...
See the picture on alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean I took with a
tiny little Logitech camera today while installing a whole suite of
Icom radios into my buddy Geoffrey's Amel Sharpi ketch we brought to
Charleston from Satellite Beach, FL a few weeks back. Gotta have all
the toys....(c;

The Icom M802 HF SSB/GMDSS/DSC radio sells, without the antenna tuner
from Ham Radio Outlet in Atlanta for $2,399 + tax and recappable
tires. The AT-140 antenna tuner adds another $480 and tax to that
total, almost THREE GRAND in HF radio......

Then WHY SO CHEAP, ICOM?....DAMMIT!!

1) The tiny little Japanese 6-pin plug that's the control output for
the tuner is a little fragile plastic plug that's NOT sealed in any
way. It plugs into a tiny, little Japanese male outlet on the main
SSB radio. This plug, if you are to install the proper cable (not
included), instead of an overpriced Icom cable with the plugs already
on them, making them impossible to thread through cable runs inside
the boat loaded up with other wires, MUST BE ASSEMBLED! Notice how
the plug is a SIX PIN PLUG....

Icom only uses FOUR of the 6 pins in this tiny little cheap connector
AND ONLY PROVIDES FOUR TEE-TINY LITTLE PINS LEAVING ZERO ROOM FOR
ASSEMBLY ERROR ABOARD A ROCKING BOAT! You don't even get the OTHER
TWO PINS it doesn't use as goof-up spares! These loose female contact
are VERY fragile, very small and easy to bend or break. The contacts
probably cost $1/thousand at the OEM order level.....SO WHY DID ICOM
ONLY PUT FOUR OF THEM IN THE PLUG KIT?!!.....&#)(*&@_#)(#@)$(*&#@%$
(EXPLETIVES DELETED) I got them installed without incident but what
if someone makes a tiny mistake and breaks one? Why, oh why, oh why
should he have to WAIT WEEKS FOR REPLACEMENTS OF SUCH CHEAP PARTS??!!!

2)....This same cheap, unsealed plastic inline connector is hanging
out of the AT-140 antenna tuner on a little piece of cable, OUT IN THE
WEATHER or on some boats IN THE HUMID, DAMP, CORRODING BILGE under
some settee someplace. WHY CAN'T A $500 ANTENNA TUNER HAVE SEALING,
WATERPROOF CABLE CONNECTORS MOUNTED RIGHT INTO THE ANTENNA TUNER'S
WATERPROOF HOUSING??!! Hello? Icom? Does anyone at Icom own a boat?
Ever worked on a boat? Ever seen an unprotected connector eaten by
electrolysis because it was exposed to SEAWATER with 13.8VDC on it?!!
Arrgh!.....(puke). Ok, so we'll get rid of this cheap little
connector, right? The ANTENNA TUNER INSTRUCTION MANUAL shows that
inside the tuner this useless pigtail wire is screwed into a TERMINAL
BLOCK on the main PC board, on a European-style terminal block made
for bare wires....right? WRONG AGAIN, FISH BREATH!! The damned
pigtail is SOLDERED to fine little wires that are soldered to the PC
board WHERE THE TERMINAL BLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO GO!!

DAMMIT ICOM, WHY IS THIS $500 TUNER MISSING THE LITTLE TERMINAL BLOCK
THAT COSTS AN OEM $1.39?!!! DAMNED CHEAPSKATES!!

My plan was to open the tuner, unscrew the wires from the terminal
block on the PC board and install the custom cable I pulled into the
wireways in the boat, through the waterproof cable squeezer straight
into the MISSING TERMINAL BLOCK!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!

I cannot pull the main PC board out of the tuner because of all the
HOT GLUED PARTS making disassembly impossible. I'm afraid if I
unsolder the pigtail cable from the little wires soldered to the
board, I may also unsolder the little wires from the unremovable
bottom of the main PC board.

I feel just like the Aflac Duck walking out of the barber shop with
Yogi Berra in the commercial.......AHHHHHHH!!!!GGGGhhh!!!!

Stupid Icom for a unit that retails for $3000 to be constructed so
cheaply!! This ISN'T a consumer ham radio for someone's
hamshack...THIS IS A BOAT RADIO!!! ALL connectors should be
WATERPROOF, EVEN ON THE MAIN CHASSIS!! It's HUMID in a boat!!!

3) The remote unit, that may be mounted outside on some boats, IS
waterproof. it has rubber keys, nice sealed box.....But,
ARRGH!....THE CABLE CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF IT IS A LITTLE MINIATURE
DIN CONNECTOR OFF SOME HAM RADIO MADE FOR SOMEONE'S CAR!! Water is
gonna get into that tiny connector with DC power on it and just EAT
THE PINS RIGHT OFF IT!! Well, Duhhhh!!!.......

Well, I'm gonna have another Newcastle English Ale and stop trying to
figure out how I'm going to put the control cable to the tuner,
tonight. I'll think more about it in the morning.....

I just wanted every one of you to know how this nice radio (otherwise)
is made. Its technology is certainly a wonder....but its construction
is NOT A MARINE RADIO!!!

PS - the matching M602 IS sealed like a marine radio should be. It
has an EXTERNAL heat sink outside the sealed case. THE M802 HAS A FAN
THAT DRAWS SALT AIR INTO THE CABINET TO COOL IT! Think about how
wonderful that's gonna be in 3 years.....(c;

Arrgh.......Any Icom reps or dealers wanna explain this to
me?.....Planned Obsolescense? Payback for losing WW2? Why....WHY?!!

Larry W4CSC
3rd Mate Engineering
S/V "Claire's Navie"
CAREFULLY soldering the FOUR LITTLE PINS you provided........

Larry

Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe.
You can tell because they never tried to contact us.





Larry W4CSC

Maybe we could get the power grid fixed if every politician
regulating the power companies wasn't on their payrolls.


  #6   Report Post  
JAD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nice navstation install, Larry

I like the flush install....looks like everything will remain easily
accessable from the top, too.

How do you like the new Icom 802 from an operation standpoint? The VFOs
gotta be the biggest improvement (I have a 702.) How about rapid channel
access, the usability of the "pre-programmed" ITU channel banks and their
content????? I set up another 702 on my friend's ketch in New Zealand that
came with the Icom dealers standard "South Pacific" programming....and it
was nearly useless as it came. What a PIA trying to squeeze all of "the
good stuff" into the user channels from the panel..... How is the SOUND
QUALITY from the 802 speaker? (The 702s is phenominal compared to most
internal speakers in amateur gear!)

I REALLY hope you sent your rant on those connectors to ICOM....they need
some feedback on this. Marine electronics guys and RADIO MEN are very often
different animals.........they should have gotten this right in the first
place.

Joe


  #7   Report Post  
Larry W4CSC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nice navstation install, Larry

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:16:06 -0400, "JAD"
wrote:

I like the flush install....looks like everything will remain easily
accessable from the top, too.


Yes, I agree.

How do you like the new Icom 802 from an operation standpoint? The VFOs
gotta be the biggest improvement (I have a 702.) How about rapid channel
access, the usability of the "pre-programmed" ITU channel banks and their
content?????


The VFO function is part of the channelized section, which actually
works great.

You need to "open up" the VFO function by pressing MODE + 2 + TX
buttons simultaneously, holding them down, while turning the unit on.
Once this is toggled on, you can press Rx button after selecting a
channel and the VFO function will start tuning from the channel
setting. Of course, this requires the operator to KNOW that his
marine ship license must NOT be used on any other frequency except the
channelized ITU channels.....unless he's a South American drug
kingpin, it seems. They operate all over the bands.

The left knob in VFO mode switches the digit you will be "tuning"
while the right knob in VFO mode switches the number. It's nearly
like having a commercial HF transceiver. Works very nice on all the
bands. It's unfortunate the programming wasn't included for the ham
band segments to automatically go to the proper sideband or mode as
you tune into them....USB on 20, 15, 10 and LSB on 160, 75, 40M, for
instance. AS the radio is only an SSB rig, that I can find, it's just
a receiver for FSK, CW, AM, etc...

I set up another 702 on my friend's ketch in New Zealand that
came with the Icom dealers standard "South Pacific" programming....and it
was nearly useless as it came. What a PIA trying to squeeze all of "the
good stuff" into the user channels from the panel..... How is the SOUND
QUALITY from the 802 speaker? (The 702s is phenominal compared to most
internal speakers in amateur gear!)


The 802 audio is "communications friendly". It's not Hi-Fi, and
shouldn't be. I'd say audio bandwidth is from 800 Hz to 3 Khz in SSB
positions, maybe 4Khz on AM with more bass for listening to
"shortwave" broadcasting.

Internal speakers in ham gear is made to sell EXTERNAL speakers that
match at Lexus prices....

I REALLY hope you sent your rant on those connectors to ICOM....they need
some feedback on this. Marine electronics guys and RADIO MEN are very often
different animals.........they should have gotten this right in the first
place.

Joe


Icom suffers from bean counteritis. Squeeze every dime out of every
radio, same as in ham rigs. The boater-buyers won't know any better,
unless their techs point these things out to them. The techs,
however, valuing their jobs, will keep quiet as their BOSS probably
sold 'em the radio in the first place.

We got ours with the M602 VHF from Sailnet. $1649 on sale, now. At
that price, it's a helluva deal.

I hope new HF-equipped boaters aren't too discouraged by current band
conditions. The HF bands are in TERRIBLE condition due to high K
indexes from lack of sunspots to charge up our ionosphere. 20 meters
(14.000-14.350) ham band was nearly dead by dark. 75 meters was
trashed early by static from huge thunderstorms across the SE USA.

It's a nice automated radio in the tradition of commercial FM or CB.
Channelization in its native channel-only mode will make it useful for
non-radio savvy users, once they know the rules and which channels are
guarded by which agency, ships, etc.

The 702 wasn't an option without the ham bands and VFO.....(c;

Larry W4CSC
HM S/V "Lionheart"
Charleston SC USA


Larry W4CSC

Isn't it becoming more practical by the day to make
Iraq's desert the new World Nuclear Waste Disposal Site?
  #8   Report Post  
JAD
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nice navstation install, Larry

Larry.....I meant IC-M710......not "702" ...but...you probably realized
that. Mine is the "open" version. Despite it's faults (below) ..is one of
the finest out-of the-box HF rigs I've played with.

I should add one of the commercial computer controls to it.....navigating
the bands without this is a real pain....but can be done.

NO CW TX on that 802!??? Rubbish, Icom!

Yes, the HF spectrum has been in poor shape.....this too, will pass. The
digital stuff remains reliable, as do the various e-mail services, from
reports I've heard.

Take it easy! Joe
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:16:06 -0400, "JAD"
wrote:

I like the flush install....looks like everything will remain easily
accessable from the top, too.


Yes, I agree.

How do you like the new Icom 802 from an operation standpoint? The VFOs
gotta be the biggest improvement (I have a 702.) How about rapid channel
access, the usability of the "pre-programmed" ITU channel banks and their
content?????


The VFO function is part of the channelized section, which actually
works great.

You need to "open up" the VFO function by pressing MODE + 2 + TX
buttons simultaneously, holding them down, while turning the unit on.
Once this is toggled on, you can press Rx button after selecting a
channel and the VFO function will start tuning from the channel
setting. Of course, this requires the operator to KNOW that his
marine ship license must NOT be used on any other frequency except the
channelized ITU channels.....unless he's a South American drug
kingpin, it seems. They operate all over the bands.

The left knob in VFO mode switches the digit you will be "tuning"
while the right knob in VFO mode switches the number. It's nearly
like having a commercial HF transceiver. Works very nice on all the
bands. It's unfortunate the programming wasn't included for the ham
band segments to automatically go to the proper sideband or mode as
you tune into them....USB on 20, 15, 10 and LSB on 160, 75, 40M, for
instance. AS the radio is only an SSB rig, that I can find, it's just
a receiver for FSK, CW, AM, etc...

I set up another 702 on my friend's ketch in New Zealand that
came with the Icom dealers standard "South Pacific" programming....and it
was nearly useless as it came. What a PIA trying to squeeze all of "the
good stuff" into the user channels from the panel..... How is the SOUND
QUALITY from the 802 speaker? (The 702s is phenominal compared to most
internal speakers in amateur gear!)


The 802 audio is "communications friendly". It's not Hi-Fi, and
shouldn't be. I'd say audio bandwidth is from 800 Hz to 3 Khz in SSB
positions, maybe 4Khz on AM with more bass for listening to
"shortwave" broadcasting.

Internal speakers in ham gear is made to sell EXTERNAL speakers that
match at Lexus prices....

I REALLY hope you sent your rant on those connectors to ICOM....they

need
some feedback on this. Marine electronics guys and RADIO MEN are very

often
different animals.........they should have gotten this right in the first
place.

Joe


Icom suffers from bean counteritis. Squeeze every dime out of every
radio, same as in ham rigs. The boater-buyers won't know any better,
unless their techs point these things out to them. The techs,
however, valuing their jobs, will keep quiet as their BOSS probably
sold 'em the radio in the first place.

We got ours with the M602 VHF from Sailnet. $1649 on sale, now. At
that price, it's a helluva deal.

I hope new HF-equipped boaters aren't too discouraged by current band
conditions. The HF bands are in TERRIBLE condition due to high K
indexes from lack of sunspots to charge up our ionosphere. 20 meters
(14.000-14.350) ham band was nearly dead by dark. 75 meters was
trashed early by static from huge thunderstorms across the SE USA.

It's a nice automated radio in the tradition of commercial FM or CB.
Channelization in its native channel-only mode will make it useful for
non-radio savvy users, once they know the rules and which channels are
guarded by which agency, ships, etc.

The 702 wasn't an option without the ham bands and VFO.....(c;

Larry W4CSC
HM S/V "Lionheart"
Charleston SC USA


Larry W4CSC

Isn't it becoming more practical by the day to make
Iraq's desert the new World Nuclear Waste Disposal Site?



  #9   Report Post  
Larry W4CSC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nice navstation install, Larry

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:07:00 -0400, "JAD"
wrote:

Larry.....I meant IC-M710......not "702" ...but...you probably realized
that. Mine is the "open" version. Despite it's faults (below) ..is one of
the finest out-of the-box HF rigs I've played with.

I should add one of the commercial computer controls to it.....navigating
the bands without this is a real pain....but can be done.


The M802 is as simple to operate as a CB rig. If you are in
Group-Channel mode, its default mode, the first 50 channels are the
most popular HF simplex channels on all the marine bands. You flip
through them and it's just like operating CB....totally channelized.
The first 500 (I think) channels are all user programmable preset
programmed for the most common from the factory. All these channels
can be the start of a band cruise on frequency mode. All you do is
press the RX button and it switched from where the channel is into
frequency mode, without changing the channel programs unless you force
it to change. Whoever thought this up was really smart. It will
allow my captain to use it, once we get him accustomed to which
channels are the call and working channels and CG channels like he had
to with VHF channels. All the ITU channel assignments are easily
selected by switching the GROUP knob to the band then the CHANNEL knob
to the ITU channel which are totally separate in ROM from the user
channels. It won't write over the preset ITU channels, I don't
think...

NO CW TX on that 802!??? Rubbish, Icom!


No AM, either.....only SSB and maybe FSK. The CW filter in it is
about 300 Hz wide.....nice CW receiver. I was copying a ship-shore
QSO on 8 Mhz last night and the dock walkers heard it through the
hatch. They all came down to watch, so I started writing it down so
they could see what's going on. My Morse is rusty, but I can still go
about 16-18wpm pretty fair. The ship station had boiler problems and
needed to have a valve made special. They were still underway but on
reduced oil burners making a cool spot in the boiler which isn't good
for mileage.

I supposed if you DID want to operate CW you could always plug your
code oscillator into the mic jack on SSB. I'd want to make sure the
tone was quite pure, but after listening to the ships that STILL chirp
like birds with their WW2 equipment, I don't think anyone would
complain.....(c;


Yes, the HF spectrum has been in poor shape.....this too, will pass. The
digital stuff remains reliable, as do the various e-mail services, from
reports I've heard.

Take it easy! Joe


Marine radio really needs to ditch SITOR for PSK31. I'll have PSK31
on board as soon as the buildout is complete and I have time to play.
The nav computer is a new Dell P4 notebook as powerful as a mainframe.
Winwarbler will be installed...(c; Has a great soundcard. It'll be
playing MP3s through Winamp into the boat stereo at the low end of the
installation priority list. Silly computer has 256MB of memory and a
60GB hard drive. I have the Archos Studio 20 portable hard drive-MP3
player. It had a 20GB drive that would store 800 CDs in MP3 format at
128Kbps, but I found a deal on a 60GB Hitachi notebook drive for it so
swapped it out. We won't need CDs aboard. I'll just bring the music
from home in the Archos and either play it directly through the boat's
stereo amp or let the Dell USB port play the music stored on the
archos with Winamp through the USB ports. I also use the Archos to
transport large software to the notebook permanently mounted on a
swingout arm.

The dock neighborhood has DSL broadband in a dockbox close to the
boat. 802.11b wireless didn't work well, even with the amplifiers.
Must be all the masts causing lots of loss or reflections. We
switched it out for Netgear's RP614 router plugged into Netgears great
powerline RF interconnect XE-102. Netgear has a transceiver built
into a wall brick you plug into any outlet in any boat in the marina.
The brick has an Ethernet port on it. Every AC outlet in every boat
now has broadband DSL at full speed through the Powerline router
system. What's really crazy is on HF the powerline noise of the
marina blocks a lot of HF freqs really bad. But this doesn't seem to
bother the powerline router system at all.....operating right on the
powerlines with the same HF bands!....2 to 42 Mhz!

Sure is nice to logon and get all the WX charts, forecasts, tides,
etc. before you leave the dock.....



Larry W4CSC

Isn't it becoming more practical by the day to make
Iraq's desert the new World Nuclear Waste Disposal Site?
  #10   Report Post  
James Balsley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Nice navstation install, Larry

Hi, I'm looking at my M802 manual and on page 51 it shows CW break-in
function which toggles transmit and receive with CW keying. The default
mode is full break-in. Acc pin 1 is labeled CW and FSK keying input. Page
12 describes how to connect keyer and mode of operation. Why are people
saying it won't transmit on CW?
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 06:07:00 -0400, "JAD"
wrote:

Larry.....I meant IC-M710......not "702" ...but...you probably realized
that. Mine is the "open" version. Despite it's faults (below) ..is one

of
the finest out-of the-box HF rigs I've played with.

I should add one of the commercial computer controls to it.....navigating
the bands without this is a real pain....but can be done.


The M802 is as simple to operate as a CB rig. If you are in
Group-Channel mode, its default mode, the first 50 channels are the
most popular HF simplex channels on all the marine bands. You flip
through them and it's just like operating CB....totally channelized.
The first 500 (I think) channels are all user programmable preset
programmed for the most common from the factory. All these channels
can be the start of a band cruise on frequency mode. All you do is
press the RX button and it switched from where the channel is into
frequency mode, without changing the channel programs unless you force
it to change. Whoever thought this up was really smart. It will
allow my captain to use it, once we get him accustomed to which
channels are the call and working channels and CG channels like he had
to with VHF channels. All the ITU channel assignments are easily
selected by switching the GROUP knob to the band then the CHANNEL knob
to the ITU channel which are totally separate in ROM from the user
channels. It won't write over the preset ITU channels, I don't
think...

NO CW TX on that 802!??? Rubbish, Icom!


No AM, either.....only SSB and maybe FSK. The CW filter in it is
about 300 Hz wide.....nice CW receiver. I was copying a ship-shore
QSO on 8 Mhz last night and the dock walkers heard it through the
hatch. They all came down to watch, so I started writing it down so
they could see what's going on. My Morse is rusty, but I can still go
about 16-18wpm pretty fair. The ship station had boiler problems and
needed to have a valve made special. They were still underway but on
reduced oil burners making a cool spot in the boiler which isn't good
for mileage.

I supposed if you DID want to operate CW you could always plug your
code oscillator into the mic jack on SSB. I'd want to make sure the
tone was quite pure, but after listening to the ships that STILL chirp
like birds with their WW2 equipment, I don't think anyone would
complain.....(c;


Yes, the HF spectrum has been in poor shape.....this too, will pass. The
digital stuff remains reliable, as do the various e-mail services, from
reports I've heard.

Take it easy! Joe


Marine radio really needs to ditch SITOR for PSK31. I'll have PSK31
on board as soon as the buildout is complete and I have time to play.
The nav computer is a new Dell P4 notebook as powerful as a mainframe.
Winwarbler will be installed...(c; Has a great soundcard. It'll be
playing MP3s through Winamp into the boat stereo at the low end of the
installation priority list. Silly computer has 256MB of memory and a
60GB hard drive. I have the Archos Studio 20 portable hard drive-MP3
player. It had a 20GB drive that would store 800 CDs in MP3 format at
128Kbps, but I found a deal on a 60GB Hitachi notebook drive for it so
swapped it out. We won't need CDs aboard. I'll just bring the music
from home in the Archos and either play it directly through the boat's
stereo amp or let the Dell USB port play the music stored on the
archos with Winamp through the USB ports. I also use the Archos to
transport large software to the notebook permanently mounted on a
swingout arm.

The dock neighborhood has DSL broadband in a dockbox close to the
boat. 802.11b wireless didn't work well, even with the amplifiers.
Must be all the masts causing lots of loss or reflections. We
switched it out for Netgear's RP614 router plugged into Netgears great
powerline RF interconnect XE-102. Netgear has a transceiver built
into a wall brick you plug into any outlet in any boat in the marina.
The brick has an Ethernet port on it. Every AC outlet in every boat
now has broadband DSL at full speed through the Powerline router
system. What's really crazy is on HF the powerline noise of the
marina blocks a lot of HF freqs really bad. But this doesn't seem to
bother the powerline router system at all.....operating right on the
powerlines with the same HF bands!....2 to 42 Mhz!

Sure is nice to logon and get all the WX charts, forecasts, tides,
etc. before you leave the dock.....



Larry W4CSC

Isn't it becoming more practical by the day to make
Iraq's desert the new World Nuclear Waste Disposal Site?



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