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#81
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
Marc wrote:
There are ,anecdotally, a large percentage of Freedom owners who's choice of future boats lies only within the Freedom family. I don't have any idea how this degree of brand loyalty compares with other makes and owners, but it is vociferous, myself included, and noteworthy due to the radically different rig and construction methods. I understand this comment and agree that it's likely, if somewhat unprovable. Unfortunately, as I said in another comment, I find the newest (Pedrick) designs, the 35 and 40/40, less attractive (less "Freedomish"?)than the earlier ones. So, I wonder what the future holds for the Freedom line/concept. I chartered a F35 for two weeks a coupla years ago just to see how I liked it compared to previous types, like the Mull 36/38. It was certainly fun, and still more attractive to me than most "standard" sloops; but I much prefer the Mull 36/38. And, because the 36/38s are older, they're cheaper. Cool! Maybe Freedom just needs a new motto: Once you've sailed a Freedom, you'll never go back! I pretty much agree with that. |
#82
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
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#83
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
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#84
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
"rhys" wrote in message ... On 18 Mar 2004 01:26:21 -0800, (Bob Whitaker) wrote: As I mentioned to Frank on a previous post, one of the things I am curious about is how different boats behave under bare poles in heavy winds. Do you know how the Ranger 33 behaves? Or the other boats on your list? Will they go bow to wind? stern to wind? or lay abeam? I don't have that much experience under bare poles but I read somewhere that most designs that lay bow to wind tend to have full keels, whereas most modern designs will tend to lay abeam. Do you have any experience in this? OK, here's some stuff out of left field. I own a Viking 33, a C&C design commissioned by Ontario Yachts, who did the Niagara 31 and 35s. This is a well-built racer-cruiser that looks like a C&C 34 on a strict diet. Beam 9' 10, LWL 27'. and the typical enormous J of the era at 15'. I'll second that one. Forgot about the Viking 33 but it is a good boat too. The advice given later in the post is right on. I've never laid under bare poles except as an experiment on deliveries, and the boats I've done this in all seemed to end up lying abeam to the seas (they've all been fin keelers of differing aspect ratios). I haven't done much cruising in bad weather (that's what heaters, blankets, books, and anchors are for as far as I'm concerned), and my blue water work has all been with bigger crews (4 minimum), so we always actively sailed through the tough stuff. Bare poles always seemed to be a technique used only in desperate situations. Whether a boat lies bow to the wind (this being a relative term, I think you mean something above maybe 60 degrees or so) is mostly a function of windage. More windage aft and you will lie closer to the wind, but I can guarantee that if you have a roller furling headsail or high freeboard at the bow and low freeboard aft you will never do so. Way too much windage too far forward. I think the current thinking is that laying under bare poles is a pretty risky technique. Most boats tend to lie beam to the seas and this is the most vulnerable position (Van Dorn says if you are beam to a breaking wave approximately the beam of your boat you are likely to be capsized and tank testing has confirmed that). I think the choices are either active sailing (many boats can actually sail upwind in big wind and waves under autopilot if the waves are relatively consistent and the wind doesn't fluctuate too much), or using some sort of drag device. The Drag Device Database is a good place to read up on that - lots of good true stories about what works and what might not. I think the author has a web site at www.dddb.com |
#85
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
Wayne B. wrote
I owned a Cal-34 for many years. Hello from a fellow Cal owner. I have a Cal 25, but even though Dave and Jaja Martin sailed theirs (heavily modified) around the world, I don't think I'll be attempting the same feat I belong to a list of Cal owners, and when asked which Cal they would consider for extended offshore cruising, most votes came in for the Cal 34 (medium size) and the Cal 40 or 46 (larger size). Weak points are the deck stepped mast, the wood supporting column below decks, the chainplates, mast, spreaders, and the fibreglass keel shell. I actually prefer a deck stepped mast, but I think you are referring to the wood below, right? Yes, my ideal boat would be a fiberglass shell and I would re-build the interior completely. I'm not quite ready to build my own hull, but there's this guy Glenn Ashmore who is building his own from scratch (www.rutuonline.com). He is something of a hero to me. There are very few sailboats under 45 feet on which I'd want to spend more than a day or two in offshore conditions. Just out of curiosity, which "small" boats make your short list, and why? Thanks, Bob Whitaker "Free Spirit" Wayne.B wrote in message . .. On 12 Mar 2004 14:19:34 -0800, (Frank Maier) wrote: Heard great things of Cal 34's. ==================================== I owned a Cal-34 for many years. We cruised and raced it for thousands of miles and had a great time.. It's very roomy for its size and genre and is very fast off the wind, especially on a breezy spinnaker reach. With an inexpensive tiller autopilot it can be easily sailed by one or two people. Those are the major good points other than being relatively easy to work on. On the down side, the boats are getting old and need to be carefully surveyed for structural issues. Weak points are the deck stepped mast, the wood supporting column below decks, the chainplates, mast, spreaders, and the fibreglass keel shell. Many older boats have addressed some of these issues out of necessity, others have been lucky, and more still have lurking issues as do most 30+ year old boats. Most have either been repowered already or are badly in need of it. Diesel is the way to go for serious cruising. People have crossed oceans in Cal-34s but it's real strength is as a coastal cruiser, preferably down wind. There are very few sailboats under 45 feet on which I'd want to spend more than a day or two in offshore conditions. |
#86
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
Doug King wrote:
Dear Bob- You take [...] me [...] far too seriously. Thanks for pointing that out... I'll try not to make the same mistake in the future As for "Blue Water Cruiser" that is strictly an advertising phrase. And the fact that it's a "marketing term" makes it acceptable to be rude to anyone who uses the term, right? How is that _ANY_ different from the other rude behavior which we see in this newsgroup? Or is it OK for _SOME_ members to be rude but not others? Maybe it takes an outsider to tell it like it is, Doug, but once in a while you tend to behave in the same manner as the creatures you despise. My Mom told me once that: "--Only your mother will tell you if you have bad breath." and Doug, sometimes you have bad breath. Everybody is entitled to make mistakes and you made a mistake. Whether you recognize it or not is a different matter and remains to be seen. I will assume that deep down inside you truly regret your snotty comment which opened this entire thread and that you would take it back if you could (even if you are loath to admit it). Please advise if my assumption is correct or mistaken. Bob Whitaker "Disinfecting the world, one toilet at a time." |
#87
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
Bob Whitaker wrote:
And the fact that it's a "marketing term" makes it acceptable to be rude to anyone who uses the term, right? Oh grow up. Fresh Breezes Doug King |
#88
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
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#89
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
There's no substitute for length ... if you want to be
even halfway comfortable offshore. unless, of course, you have to change out a 600 square foot mainsail or 800 foot genoa in building sea and wind conditions. unless, of course, your back is wrenched from hauling up the 45# anchor and 300# of chain by hand because the windlass battery crapped out. unless, of course, you are short of bux and worrying because you spent the wad on a BIG boat. |
#90
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Best 34 foot blue water cruiser
Bob, you are learning who/what dougies is.
Doug King wrote: Dear Bob- You take [...] me [...] far too seriously. Thanks for pointing that out... I'll try not to make the same mistake in the future As for "Blue Water Cruiser" that is strictly an advertising phrase. And the fact that it's a "marketing term" makes it acceptable to be rude to anyone who uses the term, right? How is that _ANY_ different from the other rude behavior which we see in this newsgroup? Or is it OK for _SOME_ members to be rude but not others? Maybe it takes an outsider to tell it like it is, Doug, but once in a while you tend to behave in the same manner as the creatures you despise. My Mom told me once that: "--Only your mother will tell you if you have bad breath." and Doug, sometimes you have bad breath. Everybody is entitled to make mistakes and you made a mistake. Whether you recognize it or not is a different matter and remains to be seen. I will assume that deep down inside you truly regret your snotty comment which opened this entire thread and that you would take it back if you could (even if you are loath to admit it). Please advise if my assumption is correct or mistaken. Bob Whitaker "Disinfecting the world, one toilet at a time." |
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