Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Stephen Trapani
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

Well, I was going to wait until I tore things apart further to ask, but
I figured maybe someone would have an easy answer to save me some time.

Here's the punchline: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it
out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty and
regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the
vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of
the holding tank.

Here are some facts that may help: The water supply for the toilet is
the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the
head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn
it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you
use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. I've been
working on other more important things, but this was going to be my
next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was
to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though,
all this has been happening with that valve closed.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top
of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the
tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there
when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is
definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious.

There are only three through hulls in the boat (H33), the raw water
intake for the Yanmar, the head discharge and the sink discharge. I
really don't want to haul out the boat to add one(budget problems).

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions
I should head to solve this?

Thanks!

Stephen
  #2   Report Post  
Peggie Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve...

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Your first problem:

When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste
comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is
empty...


It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the
tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to
overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top
of the tank.

My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing your
tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force
some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the
tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a
vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two.

Your second problem:

and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes
out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in
the top of the holding tank.


Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you turn
the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all.


Your third problem:

The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank.


The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn
it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down
while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the
toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess.


Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't designed
by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to
the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli
contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or both.

I've been working on other more important things...


That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh water
for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the
toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to
purify it (email me for directions).


but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the
first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste
valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening
with that valve closed.


Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no
matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past the
the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock
closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the
bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky that
just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from
happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the
top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of
the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get
there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while
there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very
curious.


Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to
overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent.

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first?
Directions I should head to solve this?


First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the
thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing in
it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on
the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the
toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the
blockage and cleared it.

Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole
system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall
everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a
new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank
either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to
open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US
coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in
ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters
inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake
thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge
thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake
to the fresh water system.

The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an
excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your
boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes
directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll
find the link in my signature useful too.

If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em.

-
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

  #3   Report Post  
Rolf
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

Stephen Trapani wrote in message ...
Well, I was going to wait until I tore things apart further to ask, but
I figured maybe someone would have an easy answer to save me some time.

Here's the punchline: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it
out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty and
regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the
vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of
the holding tank.

Here are some facts that may help: The water supply for the toilet is
the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the
head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn
it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you
use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. I've been
working on other more important things, but this was going to be my
next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was
to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though,
all this has been happening with that valve closed.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top
of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the
tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there
when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is
definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious.

There are only three through hulls in the boat (H33), the raw water
intake for the Yanmar, the head discharge and the sink discharge. I
really don't want to haul out the boat to add one(budget problems).

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions
I should head to solve this?

Thanks!

Stephen


The only way this can happen is if the vent line goes to the bottom of
the tank. I assume you are very sure the tank is empty?

Rolf
  #4   Report Post  
Scott Vernon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

My Y-valve wasn't working when I bought my boat. After a *thorough*
cleaning, I disassembled and found an O ring displaced. Cleaned some more,
reinstalled the o ring in its' groove and it's been working fine since.
I bet his tank *IS* full, too.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve...

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Your first problem:

When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste
comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is
empty...


It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the
tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to
overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top
of the tank.

My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing your
tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force
some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the
tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a
vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two.

Your second problem:

and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes
out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in
the top of the holding tank.


Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you turn
the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all.


Your third problem:

The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank.


The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn
it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down
while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the
toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess.


Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't designed
by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to
the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli
contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or both.

I've been working on other more important things...


That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh water
for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the
toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to
purify it (email me for directions).


but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the
first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste
valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening
with that valve closed.


Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no
matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past the
the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock
closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the
bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky that
just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from
happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the
top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of
the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get
there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while
there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very
curious.


Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to
overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent.

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first?
Directions I should head to solve this?


First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the
thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing in
it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on
the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the
toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the
blockage and cleared it.

Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole
system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall
everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a
new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank
either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to
open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US
coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in
ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters
inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake
thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge
thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake
to the fresh water system.

The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an
excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your
boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes
directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll
find the link in my signature useful too.

If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em.

-
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1


  #5   Report Post  
surfnturf
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

If the tank's not full, the vent is connected to a pipe leading to the
bottom of the tank. Wonder how many changes PO made?

surfnturf

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
news
My Y-valve wasn't working when I bought my boat. After a *thorough*
cleaning, I disassembled and found an O ring displaced. Cleaned some more,
reinstalled the o ring in its' groove and it's been working fine since.
I bet his tank *IS* full, too.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve...

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Your first problem:

When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste
comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is
empty...


It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the
tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to
overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top
of the tank.

My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing your
tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force
some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the
tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a
vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two.

Your second problem:

and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes
out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in
the top of the holding tank.


Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you turn
the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all.


Your third problem:

The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank.


The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn
it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down
while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the
toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess.


Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't designed
by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to
the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli
contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or

both.

I've been working on other more important things...


That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh water
for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the
toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to
purify it (email me for directions).


but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the
first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste
valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening
with that valve closed.


Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no
matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past the
the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock
closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the
bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky that
just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from
happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the
top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of
the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get
there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while
there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very
curious.


Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to
overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent.

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first?
Directions I should head to solve this?


First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the
thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing in
it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on
the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the
toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the
blockage and cleared it.

Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole
system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall
everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a
new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank
either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to
open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US
coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in
ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters
inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake
thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge
thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake
to the fresh water system.

The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an
excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your
boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes
directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll
find the link in my signature useful too.

If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em.

-
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1






  #6   Report Post  
Stephen Trapani
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

Peggie Hall wrote:

You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve...

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Your first problem:

When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste
comes out the holding tank vent line.


I meant when I pump the toilet...


This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is
empty...


It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped the
tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to
overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the top
of the tank.


Okay, then I'm thinking logically, just going insane. Or I really do
have a magic head! ;-) It's a plastic tank, I can see it's empty. I can
move the tank around with one hand, it's light like it's empty (It's not
tied down). I'm not there atm, I'll triple check it again this weekend.
If it's full, I'll check in to the nearest psych ward.

It was totally full when I first bought the boat, I unscrewed the
fittings at the top of the tank, sucked it all out from there with a
power vac (because the boat was in dry dock and I had to move the tank
to do some work on the shaft), disconnected the tank completely and
pulled it out, rinsed it out, put it back in and reconnected everything
(possibly reversing the pump-out, which I connected to the fitting near
the bottom of the tank, and the line from the head, which I connected to
the fitting near the top of the tank; both of these are on one side of
the tank).

Since then we've used the head an entire weekend, with waste coming out
the vent line the whole time, I think. The vent can't be plugged, it's
functioning as the entire discharge for the system! I've been watching
the tank, it's right there in the starboard cockpit locker, never seen
it collect waste. I haven't checked any of the lines yet though.

The tank vent attached at the top of the tank *definitely* stops right
there at the top, it's connected with a hose clamp, I reconnected it
myself, there is nothing connecting the vent line to the bottom of the tank.

When I get time, um next on the list right after I try out my new sails,
I'll take everything apart like you said, but...

Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole
system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall
everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a
new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank
either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to
open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US
coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank in
ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters
inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake
thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge
thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the intake
to the fresh water system.


.... could be, but the '79 Hunter 33' couldn't have been designed without
a head discharge thru-hull, could it? Maybe it Y'd into the sink
discharge? Should I try to run it to there?


The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an
excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your
boat.


You're right. I recently saw an owners manual posted there for the '80
H33, I just couldn't figure out how to download the pdf file onto my
ibook, I just got a page with a picture of the manual.



Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes
directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think you'll
find the link in my signature useful too.


Yes, once I get my elbows into this mess I think I'll have both of those.

If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em.


Thanks! hey what do I get if I manage to stump the head mistress? an in
person consultation?? ;-)

Stephen
  #7   Report Post  
Peggie Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

Stephen Trapani wrote:


When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste
comes out the holding tank vent line.


I meant when I pump the toilet...


I knew that's what you meant.


Okay, then I'm thinking logically, just going insane. Or I really do
have a magic head! ;-) It's a plastic tank, I can see it's empty.


Since you've used the toilet, or only after you vacuumed it out? 'Cuz
it's very possible that the tank doesn't hold anywhere near as much as
you think it does. How many gallons is it supposed to hold? It's also
possible that the toilet either uses a lot more flush water than you
think...or that it's leaking flush water, filling up the tank.


I can
move the tank around with one hand, it's light like it's empty (It's not
tied down).


It's not too hard to slide a tank around...and you do need to secure it
from sliding when you're heeled.


I'm not there atm, I'll triple check it again this weekend.
If it's full, I'll check in to the nearest psych ward.


I don't think you're hallucinating...but I also know that there are
a only a limited number things that can force waste out the vent.

It was totally full when I first bought the boat, I unscrewed the
fittings at the top of the tank, sucked it all out from there with a
power vac (because the boat was in dry dock and I had to move the tank
to do some work on the shaft), disconnected the tank completely and
pulled it out, rinsed it out, put it back in and reconnected everything
(possibly reversing the pump-out, which I connected to the fitting near
the bottom of the tank, and the line from the head, which I connected to
the fitting near the top of the tank; both of these are on one side of
the tank).


You got it right--waste goes in at the top, has to be pumped out from
the bottom.


Since then we've used the head an entire weekend, with waste coming out
the vent line the whole time, I think. The vent can't be plugged, it's
functioning as the entire discharge for the system! I've been watching
the tank, it's right there in the starboard cockpit locker, never seen
it collect waste.


Hmmmm...

I haven't checked any of the lines yet though.

Lines.....WHOOPS--we may be onto something: Is there a vented loop in
the head discharge line that has it's own tiny vent line that's teed
into the tank vent line? If so, where's the loop--before or after the
y-valve? I need all the details you can give me. If no loop (which,
since your toilet flushes directly overboard, there should be), is
ANYthing teed into the tank vent line?

...reconnect it to the intake
thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge
thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the
intake to the fresh water system.



... could be, but the '79 Hunter 33' couldn't have been designed without
a head discharge thru-hull, could it?


Prob'ly not on one that old, but it's possible...'cuz '79 was the first
model year to require holding tanks. Many boats built from then on were
plumbed to send all the waste to the tank. But it's more likely that a
PO prior to the most recent PO removed the head thru-hull and glassed it
over...'cuz your toilet isn't original either (it's a $600 toilet, btw).
So I'm guessing that the same PO who connected the intake to the fresh
water system also installed that toilet and decided to use the sink
drain through hull as a head discharge. However...

Maybe it Y'd into the sink
discharge? Should I try to run it to there?


That'll work...in fact, although I don't think Hunter ever did, many
sailboats are plumbed that way to eliminate a thru-hull. You will have
to either keep a plug in the sink or install a shut=off valve in the
sink drain line that should remain closed except when the sink is in
use...otherwise the toilet will pull air through the sink that'll
prevent it from priming and pulling in any flush water.

The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an
excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your
boat.



You're right. I recently saw an owners manual posted there for the '80
H33, I just couldn't figure out how to download the pdf file onto my
ibook, I just got a page with a picture of the manual.


If you post a request, someone will be glad to get a copy to you.

If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em.


Thanks! hey what do I get if I manage to stump the head mistress? an in
person consultation?? ;-)


You just might--at least a phone consultation anyway.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

  #8   Report Post  
Keith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

Sounds full, but maybe the "vent" line is hooked to the wrong outlet, like a
dip tube?

--


Keith
__
A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand.
"surfnturf" wrote in message
news:lHTGc.977538$Pk3.296206@pd7tw1no...
If the tank's not full, the vent is connected to a pipe leading to the
bottom of the tank. Wonder how many changes PO made?

surfnturf

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
news
My Y-valve wasn't working when I bought my boat. After a *thorough*
cleaning, I disassembled and found an O ring displaced. Cleaned some

more,
reinstalled the o ring in its' groove and it's been working fine since.
I bet his tank *IS* full, too.


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville PA __/)__/)__


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
You have a whole bunch of problems, Steve...

Stephen Trapani wrote:

Your first problem:

When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste
comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is
empty...

It can't be. You may THINK it is because you've pumped out or dumped

the
tank till nothing more comes out, but your tank has to be full to
overflowing for waste to be forced out the vent and fittings on the

top
of the tank.

My guess is, your tank vent is all but completely blocked, causing

your
tank to become so pressurized that pumping the head manages to force
some liquid out the vent, but doesn't allow enough air back into the
tank during pumpout to keep the pumpout or macerator from pulling a
vacuum that prevents it from removing more than a gallon or two.

Your second problem:

and regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still

comes
out the vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top,

in
the top of the holding tank.

Your y-valve has failed...it isn't completely switch sides when you

turn
the handle. In fact, it may not be moving anything inside at all.


Your third problem:

The water supply for the toilet is the fresh water tank.

The previous owners put a ball valve before the head, when you turn
it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn it off/down
while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you use the
toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess.

Not only non-standard, but a MAJOR no-no. NO toilet that isn't

designed
by the mfr to use pressurized flush water should ever be connected to
the potable water supply. It cannot be done without risk of e-coli
contamination of the potable water supply, damage to the toilet, or

both.

I've been working on other more important things...

That depends on what you consider important. Do not use your fresh

water
for anything BUT toilet flushing again until you've disconnected the
toilet from the system and recommissioned the fresh water system to
purify it (email me for directions).


but this was going to be my next, um job, sort of, but anyway the
first thing I was going to try was to open the seacock toilet waste
valve. I haven't tried this yet though, all this has been happening
with that valve closed.

Well, no WONDER waste is going through the y-valve into the tank no
matter which way the valve handle is turned! If it couldn't get past

the
the y-valve, flushing the toilet against a closed discharge seacock
closed would create enough pressure to make it erupt back through the
bowl with enough force to give you a bath in it! You're just lucky

that
just enough can escape through the tank vent to prevent that from
happening... or worse yet, a ruptured tank.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the
top of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the

screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top

of
the tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get
there when there seems to be none making into the tank and while
there is definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very
curious.

Everything you describe indicates a tank that's actually full to
overflowing and seriously pressurized due to a blocked tank vent.

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first?
Directions I should head to solve this?

First, clear the tank vent...the most likely place is the
thru-hull...clean it out with a screwdriver blade. If there's nothing

in
it, the next most common place for a blockage is the the fitting on
the tank...a kinked vent line is also a good possbility. Don't use the
toilet again or attempt to pump out again until you've found the
blockage and cleared it.

Once you've done that, if it were my boat, I'd pull out the the whole
system, rebuild the toilet while it's out of the boat, and reinstall
everything correctly...with all new hoses--including the vent line--a
new y-valve (or maybe not--nor any macerator to dump the tank
either--unless you're in coastal water that offer immediate access to
open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US
coastline...'cuz it's illegal flush directly overboard OR dump a tank

in
ALL inland waters including the Great Lakes and any coastal waters
inside the "3 mile limit".)...reconnect it to the intake
thru-hull--which I suspect you've mistaken for a head discharge
thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted" it when he connected the

intake
to the fresh water system.

The Hunter Owners Website at http://www.hunterowners.com/ is an
excellent resource for any information you need about anything on your
boat. Groco can supply you with a manual for your toilet that includes
directions for installing and plumbing it correctly. And I think

you'll
find the link in my signature useful too.

If you still have questions, I'll be glad to answer 'em.

-
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems

and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"

http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1






  #9   Report Post  
Stephen Trapani
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

Peggie Hall wrote:


Lines.....WHOOPS--we may be onto something: Is there a vented loop in
the head discharge line that has it's own tiny vent line that's teed
into the tank vent line? If so, where's the loop--before or after the
y-valve? I need all the details you can give me. If no loop (which,
since your toilet flushes directly overboard, there should be), is
ANYthing teed into the tank vent line?


This is definitely something I'll look for. The vent line comes off the
top of the tank and heads toward the stern but it's hard to see back
there so I've never traced it. It's *got* to be something like that.
There is no such thing as the supernatural!

I'll get back to you with my findings. Now I just need to decide whether
I move up the job of cleaning out that nasty, greasy helm locker before
I climb down in there to check this out.

Stephen

  #10   Report Post  
Peggie Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default Magic Head

Steve, if you have any questions you'd rather not post, you're welcome
to email: peg(dot)hall(at)sbcglobal(dot)net.

Peggie

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Peggie Hall wrote:


Lines.....WHOOPS--we may be onto something: Is there a vented loop in
the head discharge line that has it's own tiny vent line that's teed
into the tank vent line? If so, where's the loop--before or after the
y-valve? I need all the details you can give me. If no loop (which,
since your toilet flushes directly overboard, there should be), is
ANYthing teed into the tank vent line?



This is definitely something I'll look for. The vent line comes off the
top of the tank and heads toward the stern but it's hard to see back
there so I've never traced it. It's *got* to be something like that.
There is no such thing as the supernatural!

I'll get back to you with my findings. Now I just need to decide whether
I move up the job of cleaning out that nasty, greasy helm locker before
I climb down in there to check this out.

Stephen



--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
replace head on a mercruiser 350 engine Han General 5 June 18th 04 02:59 AM
OT--Not again! More Chinese money buying our politicians. NOYB General 23 February 6th 04 05:01 PM
Grocco Head Replacement Jerry Cruising 22 November 7th 03 01:36 AM
Head Gasket on 50 HP 93 Evinrude dp General 2 November 4th 03 01:46 PM
Jabsco Head - help! Lloyd Sumpter General 11 August 14th 03 05:08 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 BoatBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Boats"

 

Copyright © 2017