I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

SAIL LOCO wrote:

> Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
> for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
> can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
> you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.

Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

> SAIL LOCO wrote:
>
>
>>Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
>>for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
>>can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
>>you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.
>
>
> Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
> what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
> their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
> the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
> either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
> season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
> etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
> most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
> and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.
>
> If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
> closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
> of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
> the benefit that you can take it other places as well.
>
> If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
> probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
> have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).
>
> Fresh Breezes- Doug King
>

Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

Jim Cate > wrote in message >...
> I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
> area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
> on the boat. Or, anyone else.

Ive seen em and would not have one, BTW I live on ClearLake.

>
> For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
> advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
> regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
> sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
> some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
> will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
> get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
> than a fixed keel boat.

There are lots of places to do good fishing without going into the
gulf. You can catch Flounder right off the junction at Seabrook
shipyard, Speckeled trout RedFish ect can be had at the taylor lake
cut, Lots of redfish in trinity bay, Chocolate bay, ect.. If your just
have to have red Snapper there are many rigs just 10 miles offshore.


This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
> issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests.

With a nice sailboat your can keep em busy learning how to set the
sails, you can trool for fish going in and out. Teach them how to
navigate, Bring a shotgun along and shoot skeet, very challenging on a
rocking boat. And if they keep whining are we home yet just toss them
overboard. No body likes a whiner.



Also, in view of the
> hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
> ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
> islands, would be an obvious advantage.

You can get into most areas here with a keel boat with a raisable
board. If you must fish the flats tow along a dink anchor out your
boat and row or walk onto the flats.



(The 40-foot Valiant, although
> a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
> motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
> the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
> finder.)

More like 3 and a half hours max, and its easy enogh to get to the
channel and then the channel is well marked and 50 foot deep in the
center.


>
> OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
> anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
> the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
> now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
> I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
> extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
> reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
> and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
> As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
> comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
> much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
> With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
> can reportedly plane under sail.

Sounds like speed is your major concern. If so just get a stick pot.

>
> A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
> still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
> kept under charter in our area.

Yeah and if your dying to go offshore and fish there are many fishing
boats out of Galveston and freeport. I would not be caught dead
offshore in the gulf in a MAC morphadyte.


Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
> conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
> (I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
> a powered fishing boat.)

Bimini, wheelhose ect.... = shade

A negative factor is that the new Mac is
> fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
> - 32-foot boats.
>
> Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
> of the new 26M would be appreciated.
>
> Jim

Never been on one but we love to laugh at the suckers that buy em.


Joe
MSV RedCloud

Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing like
the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

"DSK" > wrote in message
...
> > Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
"M" if that's
> what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't
make up
> their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First
of all,
> the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
unless you
> either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open
in 1
> season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
cooler, mast,
> etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
faster than
> most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
motorboat,
> and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.
>
> If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
marina
> closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large
amounts
> of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
65mph)... with
> the benefit that you can take it other places as well.
>
> If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
you
> probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
because I
> have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).
>
> Fresh Breezes- Doug King
>

>Never been on one but we love to laugh at the suckers that buy em.
>

I have been on one, at a boat show. Special price of $30k, all up and brand
new.

I would not buy it at $3k, unless I knew someone I could lay the thing off on
for $4k.

That is one flimsy boat, and those I have seen on the water (in under 8 knots
of wind) never sailed well (maybe Mac owners could blame the sailor) nor
motored well (maybe Mac owners could blame the engine as too small).

Some people *do* buy them though and call them sailboats just as some people
buy Wasa Brot and call it dessert.

<<<< whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").>>>>>>>>>>

Kinda goes along with something I read/heard a long time ago. "Never buy a
boat that you wouldn't want to be seen arriving on"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

>From: "Jonathan Ganz"
>Date: 3/1/2004 12:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
>climb aboard. :-)

says something, doesn't it.

Yep. It says you have no idea what the differences are,
and you're an idiot.

"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> >From: "Jonathan Ganz"
> >Date: 3/1/2004 12:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
> >climb aboard. :-)
>
> says something, doesn't it.
>

Yep. It says you have no idea what the differences are,
and you're an idiot.>>


What is the point of this, Jonathan? I think we all agree that the Mac26 is a
poor sailing boat and that Jim would probably do better to reaccess his needs
and limitations before buying one.
There's a Mac26X at my club. The two owners appear to be very unhappy with it.
Perhaps it's not "the boat." I've asked them about it and they seem none to
excited to "brag" about it as most owners do. Whenever I show various boats to
interested folks, the mac always brings about something like "What the hell is
that?" Few are impressed. My Hoover has nicer lines.

RB

>My Hoover has nicer lines.
>
>RB

I thought you had a C&C. Hoovers SUCK!>>>


LOL, Bill.

RB

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I think I'll post whatever I want to post.

While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
quality.

"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> Yep. It says you have no idea what the differences are,
> and you're an idiot.>>
>
>
> What is the point of this, Jonathan? I think we all agree that the Mac26
is a
> poor sailing boat and that Jim would probably do better to reaccess his
needs
> and limitations before buying one.
> There's a Mac26X at my club. The two owners appear to be very unhappy with
it.
> Perhaps it's not "the boat." I've asked them about it and they seem none
to
> excited to "brag" about it as most owners do. Whenever I show various
boats to
> interested folks, the mac always brings about something like "What the
hell is
> that?" Few are impressed. My Hoover has nicer lines.
>
> RB

joony wrote:

>While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
>who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
>quality.

what joony is saying is that given his skills the Mac is a better boat than he
is a sailor.

kinda sad, that is.

While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
quality.>>>


The Mac is a horriblly cheap boat. To say it isn't "the best boat out there" is
overselling it in the extreme.

RB

Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.>>>


What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
Mac26X as a viable vessel?

RB

Better still, Jonathan...can you explain to us under what circumstances YOU
would buy a Mac26X?
I can't think of ANY for myself. I'd rather have a sailboat or a
powerboat...never the Mac.

RB

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

> Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing like
> the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
> climb aboard. :-)

It's not all that different. In fact the basic hull & deck molding appears to be
99% identical. We have a couple of the new models at our marina. They still
don't sail very well.

However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make a
great boat-shaped camper trailer.

DSK

Kinda sad that you're an idiot, but I guess that balances
out the geniuses in the world.

"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> joony wrote:
>
> >While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
> >who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
> >quality.
>
> what joony is saying is that given his skills the Mac is a better boat
than he
> is a sailor.
>
> kinda sad, that is.
>
>

The M isn't anything close to the X, but I see your point.

"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> While the M isn't the best boat out there, it's more a factor of
> who's sailing it and for what purpose than it's obviously lacking
> quality.>>>
>
>
> The Mac is a horriblly cheap boat. To say it isn't "the best boat out
there" is
> overselling it in the extreme.
>
> RB

Not at all. I think the X version are trash. The M isn't as bad as
that and is capable of sailing on the bay (for example) without
compromising one's safety. It's a different boat.
"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> Oh please. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.>>>
>
>
> What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Are you supporting the
> Mac26X as a viable vessel?
>
> RB

No. I can't. Perhaps if I was stupid like Jax....

Again, I'm talking about the M, which doesn't have the huge engine
as is a "sailboat" not a horrible compromise.

"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> Better still, Jonathan...can you explain to us under what circumstances
YOU
> would buy a Mac26X?
> I can't think of ANY for myself. I'd rather have a sailboat or a
> powerboat...never the Mac.
>
> RB

>However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make a
>great boat-shaped camper trailer.
>
>DSK

doug, they are $30k at boatshow special prices.

yeah, but thirty GRAND???


>For once, I have to agree with Jonathan. Perhaps we all tend to approach
>such questions from our own parochial view of what a "real" boat should be,
>not realizing that a boat should fit the desires and needs of its owner, not
>some pre-conceived notion of an ideal boat in the sky.
>
>I'd say that if the Mac M does what you want it to do better than the
>alternatives, and suits the way you intend to use it, go for it and have the
>self-confidence to give the finger to those who presume to look down on you
>for choosing what suits your needs.
>
>
>Dave
>S/V Good Fortune
>CS27
>
>
>
>
>
>

> >However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make a
> >great boat-shaped camper trailer.
> >
>
> JAXAshby wrote:
> doug, they are $30k at boatshow special prices.

You don't get out much, do you? That's not very expensive for either a new boat
or a new camper trailer in that size range. But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?

DSK

For half of $30k one can buy a lot of fine, fine, fine used 26 foot sailboats.

the word "horrendous" is normally used not in the context of absolute dollars,
but rather in the context of what one gets for the dollars.

What you get for your money is a brand new Mac 26.

Is Mac the only choice for those who wish a 26 foot boat bought brand new?


>That's not very expensive for either a new boat
>or a new camper trailer in that size range. But maybe $30K is a horrendous
>lot
>of money to you, Jax?
>
>DSK

For once I have to agree with Jax... $30K is way too much. Even
if you want to stick with a Mac (not the X, not the X), then you
can get a model just before the M (I forget the model name), for
1/3 of that.

"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> yeah, but thirty GRAND???
>
>
> >For once, I have to agree with Jonathan. Perhaps we all tend to approach
> >such questions from our own parochial view of what a "real" boat should
be,
> >not realizing that a boat should fit the desires and needs of its owner,
not
> >some pre-conceived notion of an ideal boat in the sky.
> >
> >I'd say that if the Mac M does what you want it to do better than the
> >alternatives, and suits the way you intend to use it, go for it and have
the
> >self-confidence to give the finger to those who presume to look down on
you
> >for choosing what suits your needs.
> >
> >
> >Dave
> >S/V Good Fortune
> >CS27
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

I'd say it's more like 75% the same. There are differences that appear to
make
it a better sailor.

"DSK" > wrote in message
...
> Jonathan Ganz wrote:
>
> > Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing
like
> > the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that
embarrassed to
> > climb aboard. :-)
>
> It's not all that different. In fact the basic hull & deck molding appears
to be
> 99% identical. We have a couple of the new models at our marina. They
still
> don't sail very well.
>
> However, they are relatively inexpensive for their accomodation, and make
a
> great boat-shaped camper trailer.
>
> DSK
>

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> DSK wrote:
>
> > SAIL LOCO wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best
choice
> >>for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of
fishing you
> >>can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the
Mac and
> >>you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.
> >
> >
> > Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
"M" if that's
> > what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who
can't make up
> > their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.
First of all,
> > the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
unless you
> > either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom
open in 1
> > season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
cooler, mast,
> > etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
faster than
> > most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
motorboat,
> > and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.
> >
> > If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
marina
> > closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving
large amounts
> > of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
65mph)... with
> > the benefit that you can take it other places as well.
> >
> > If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
you
> > probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
because I
> > have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).
> >
> > Fresh Breezes- Doug King
> >
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
> experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
> ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
> the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
> swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
> several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
> heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
> experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
> are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
> blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
> mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
> could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
> cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
> stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
> with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
> traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
> sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
> ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
> doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
> made...").
>
> But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
> I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
> provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
> ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
> larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
> have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
> types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
> marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
> that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
> time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
> there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
> insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
> situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
> doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
> weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
> the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
> out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
> mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
> extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
> good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
> dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
> it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
> other marina choices, however.)
>
> Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
> been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
> design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
> the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
> flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
> rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
> these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
> performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
> don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
> performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
> hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
> with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
> larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
> traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
> main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
> "cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
> motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
> need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
> faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
> the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
> questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
> the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
> Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
> take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
> site.
>
> Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
> sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
> C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
> Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
> course.
>
> Jim
>

Did you sail on it? Always thought that tiny wheel would be awkward.

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" > wrote in message
...
> Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing like
> the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed
to
> climb aboard. :-)
>
> "DSK" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
> "M" if that's
> > what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who
can't
> make up
> > their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.
First
> of all,
> > the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
> unless you
> > either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom
open
> in 1
> > season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
> cooler, mast,
> > etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
> faster than
> > most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
> motorboat,
> > and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.
> >
> > If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
> marina
> > closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving
large
> amounts
> > of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
> 65mph)... with
> > the benefit that you can take it other places as well.
> >
> > If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
> you
> > probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
> because I
> > have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).
> >
> > Fresh Breezes- Doug King
> >
>
>

How much is a new Hunter 26? BTW Mac is advertised at $18k +/- the buyer
drives the price up with BIG motors.

SV

"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> yeah, but thirty GRAND???
>
>
> >For once, I have to agree with Jonathan. Perhaps we all tend to approach
> >such questions from our own parochial view of what a "real" boat should
be,
> >not realizing that a boat should fit the desires and needs of its owner,
not
> >some pre-conceived notion of an ideal boat in the sky.
> >
> >I'd say that if the Mac M does what you want it to do better than the
> >alternatives, and suits the way you intend to use it, go for it and have
the
> >self-confidence to give the finger to those who presume to look down on
you
> >for choosing what suits your needs.
> >
> >
> >Dave
> >S/V Good Fortune
> >CS27
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

> I'd say it's more like 75% the same. There are differences that appear to
> make
> it a better sailor.

I think they changed the deck & cockpit layout some, and improved the heck out
of the steering & rudders (which needed it badly... out my several friends who
owned one of these, *all* of them broke their steering at one point or another).
But I'd be surprised if the sailing performance has improved very much.

There's a much-ballyhoo'ed PHRF rating on them of around 215, which was given to
a Mac dealer on the Chesapeake who sailed it with 3 guys on trapezes, a masthead
spinnaker, and no water ballast. But the stock boat probably deserves a PHRf
rating around 300.


JAXAshby wrote:

> For half of $30k one can buy a lot of fine, fine, fine used 26 foot sailboats.

Yep. But why compare the prices of *new* boats to *used* ones? Surely your MENSA
intellect can distinguish the difference?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

>Mac is advertised at $18k +/- the buyer
>drives the price up with BIG motors.

Last time I went to A/C boatshow, a Mac was sitting there with a sign on it
loudly proclaiming $29,xxx, a "boat show special". I seem recall that taxes
and title were not mentioned.

>why compare the prices of *new* boats to *used* ones?

value.

>Surely your MENSA
>intellect can distinguish the difference?

yup, value. compare a brand new Mac 26 at $30k to a used Buccaneer 26 for
$950. Much the same space inside. compare a brand new Mac 26 $30k to a used
Contessa 26 at $10k. The Contessa has crossed oceans and you have twenty grand
left over.

but some people want to buy new.

if you go to the URL Jim posted you'll see the price I quoted. That's w/o
motor.

Can't you find the Hunter price?

SV


"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> >Mac is advertised at $18k +/- the buyer
> >drives the price up with BIG motors.
>
> Last time I went to A/C boatshow, a Mac was sitting there with a sign on
it
> loudly proclaiming $29,xxx, a "boat show special". I seem recall that
taxes
> and title were not mentioned.

You're a brave man to admit that here.

SV


"Dave" > wrote
>
> I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,

>You're a brave man to admit that here.

hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.


>> I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,
>
>
>

But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
of money to you, Jax?>>>


It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....

A J30 and a J24
Two Pearson 30s
A C&C 30 late model
A Catalina 30 late 80's
A Bristol 29.5

And so on....

RB

>None of those boats can do what the Mac can.
>

What's that? Flex the hull when you pull on the shrouds?

>> It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....
>>
>> A J30 and a J24
>> Two Pearson 30s
>> A C&C 30 late model
>> A Catalina 30 late 80's
>> A Bristol 29.5
>>
>> And so on....
>>
>> RB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
rep. Name recognition, I guess.

Scotty

"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> >You're a brave man to admit that here.
>
> hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.
>
>
> >> I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,
> >
> >
> >
>
>

None of those boats can do what the Mac can.


"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
> of money to you, Jax?>>>
>
>
> It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....
>
> A J30 and a J24
> Two Pearson 30s
> A C&C 30 late model
> A Catalina 30 late 80's
> A Bristol 29.5
>
> And so on....
>
> RB

None of those boats can do what the Mac can.>>>


Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x is and
that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a boat it
really is.
True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different owners, but
none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people love them,
just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was really a
"good" car.

RB

that's 1


"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> >None of those boats can do what the Mac can.
> >
>
> What's that? Flex the hull when you pull on the shrouds?
>
> >> It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....
> >>
> >> A J30 and a J24
> >> Two Pearson 30s
> >> A C&C 30 late model
> >> A Catalina 30 late 80's
> >> A Bristol 29.5
> >>
> >> And so on....
> >>
> >> RB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
rep. Name recognition, I guess.>>>


As Marc (He sails a Freedom) will attest, the newer DS models from Hunter are
okay looking and quite nice. The fit and finish is pretty good, a LOT better
than Beneteau. A lot of folks probaby dockside condoize them, but they actually
seem to sail reasonably well.

RB

So , I win?


"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> None of those boats can do what the Mac can.>>>
>
>
> Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x is
and
> that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a boat
it
> really is.
> True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different owners,
but
> none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people love
them,
> just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was really a
> "good" car.
>
> RB

Stop it Bob, you're freaking me out.

SV

"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
> rep. Name recognition, I guess.>>>
>
>
> As Marc (He sails a Freedom) will attest, the newer DS models from Hunter
are
> okay looking and quite nice. The fit and finish is pretty good, a LOT
better
> than Beneteau. A lot of folks probaby dockside condoize them, but they
actually
> seem to sail reasonably well.
>
> RB

Hi Bob, congrats on the good news. Was out on my slip neighbors 426 DS
on Sunday. He has a FULL cockpit enclosure. It was like sailing a
solarium. Absolutely no sensation of movement until we had to reef as
the wind picked up off of the Ambrose racon. Broad reached back into
the harbor at 10 kn. These boats do move and sail well.



On 01 Mar 2004 23:36:20 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

>some of my non-sailing friends think Hunters are great boats with a great
>rep. Name recognition, I guess.>>>
>
>
>As Marc (He sails a Freedom) will attest, the newer DS models from Hunter are
>okay looking and quite nice. The fit and finish is pretty good, a LOT better
>than Beneteau. A lot of folks probaby dockside condoize them, but they actually
>seem to sail reasonably well.
>
>RB

Hi Bob, congrats on the good news. Was out on my slip neighbors 426 DS
on Sunday. He has a FULL cockpit enclosure. It was like sailing a
solarium. Absolutely no sensation of movement until we had to reef as
the wind picked up off of the Ambrose racon. Broad reached back into
the harbor at 10 kn. These boats do move and sail well.>>>


Thanks, Marc. We're dropping Alien in in about 4 weeks or so. You're welcome
aboard any time.
I still prefer your boat to the Hunter, but I can certainly see the DS appeal.
Are you all set for the new season?

RB

I praised a hunter once, but that was because my old boss had
one and I was trying to suck up to him for a raise.

"JAXAshby" > wrote in message
...
> >You're a brave man to admit that here.
>
> hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.
>
>
> >> I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Bob wins. You know that.

"Scott Vernon" > wrote in message
...
> So , I win?
>
>
> "Bobsprit" > wrote in message
> ...
> > None of those boats can do what the Mac can.>>>
> >
> >
> > Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x is
> and
> > that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a
boat
> it
> > really is.
> > True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different
owners,
> but
> > none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people
love
> them,
> > just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was really
a
> > "good" car.
> >
> > RB
>

"Jim Cate" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>In my particular
> situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
> doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
> weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
> the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
> out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
> mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
> extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
> good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
> dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
> it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
> other marina choices, however.)

I changed from power to sail because I had young crew.

I found that high speed motoring only gave pleasure to the driver. The
initial thrill wears off very quickly for the rest of the crew.

With a sailing vessel, you can assign tasks to younger crew. They will be
able to excel at these tasks, and earn praise, which helps them to enjoy the
activity, and IMHO, is very good for them.

You may find that you can do this on a MAC 26M, but I suspect that you would
use the power to travel a bit further afield.

Also, are there usually waves in the area that you plan to use the boat?
I don't think that it would be very comfortable doing even 15 kts, in such a
light boat, unless the water was almost flat calm.


Regards


Donal
--

We looked at a few H25, & 27s, but decided the Mac (not an "X") was a better
boat for our needs, at the time.

Scotty


"Jonathan Ganz" > wrote in message
...
> I praised a hunter once, but that was because my old boss had
> one and I was trying to suck up to him for a raise.
>
> "JAXAshby" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >You're a brave man to admit that here.
> >
> > hey, I was briefly considered a Hunter. But I was younger then.
> >
> >
> > >> I'll admit to having briefly considered a Mac,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Not any more. I think AOL said he couldn't play anymore.

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" > wrote in message
...
> Bob wins. You know that.
>
> "Scott Vernon" > wrote in message
> ...
> > So , I win?
> >
> >
> > "Bobsprit" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > None of those boats can do what the Mac can.>>>
> > >
> > >
> > > Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x
is
> > and
> > > that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor a
> boat
> > it
> > > really is.
> > > True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different
> owners,
> > but
> > > none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people
> love
> > them,
> > > just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was
really
> a
> > > "good" car.
> > >
> > > RB
> >
>
>

"Dave" > wrote
>
> When you reach my age,

which is?

>
> At the time I was thinking about how happy the wife would be to be able to
> scoot back in ahead of a t'storm.

Yes, they sound like a good, does it all boat, on paper. But then when you
really see one. Ugh!

What's a CS?


>
>
> Dave
> S/V Good Fortune
> CS27

<<<<There's a much-ballyhoo'ed PHRF rating on them of around 215, which was
given to
a Mac dealer on the Chesapeake who sailed it with 3 guys on trapezes, a
masthead
spinnaker, and no water ballast.>>>>>

You must be refering to that wack job Jim down in Mayo.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

That would be a HC.

You got Fs in English, right?

SV

> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:57:11 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
wrote:
>
> >
> >What's a CS?
> >
> >
>
> Holy Crap!
>
> BB

I see your math is no better than your English.


> wrote in message
...
> On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:
>
> >But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
> >of money to you, Jax?>>>
> >
> >
> >It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....
> >
> >A J30 and a J24
> >Two Pearson 30s
> >A C&C 30 late model
> >A Catalina 30 late 80's
> >A Bristol 29.5
> >
> >And so on....
> >
> >RB
>
> or an even dozen Sidelmanns!
>
> BB

After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
sailed). In contrast, those I have talked with elsewhere who HAVE
actually sailed and motered the boat are quite impressed with it. What
seems to be overlooked repeatedly is that if I bought the Mac, I could
still charter a number of larger vessels for offshore cruising. In
discussions such as this, it seems to me that it's important to approach
the issues logically and with balanced consideration of all the related
issues. - So far, I see very little logic and lots of emotional ranting
and raving and put-downs of someone some apparently percieved as as a
convenient (novice) target. Nevertheless, I appreciate the helpful
suggestions and comments of those who have some useful information for
me to consider. Again, I can still charter some fine, heavy boats when
going offshore. And one more time..... I can still charter a wide
selection of heavy boats when going offshore.
Jim

Jim Cate wrote:
>
> I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
> area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
> on the boat. Or, anyone else.
>
> For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
> advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
> regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
> sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
> some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
> will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
> get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
> than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
> issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
> hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
> ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
> islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
> a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
> motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
> the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
> finder.)
>
> OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
> anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
> the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
> now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
> I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
> extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
> reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
> and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
> As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
> comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
> much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
> With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
> can reportedly plane under sail.
>
> A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
> still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
> kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
> conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
> (I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
> a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
> fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
> - 32-foot boats.
>
> Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
> of the new 26M would be appreciated.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>

I know it's a Candjun boat, but what does CS stand for?

Scotty


> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:07 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
wrote:
>
> >That would be a HC.
> >
> >You got Fs in English, right?
> >
>
> You really don't know what a CS is? Again, I say Holy Crap!
>
> BB
>
>
> >SV
> >
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:57:11 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >What's a CS?
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Holy Crap!
> >>
> >> BB
>

Jim Cate wrote:

> After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
> one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
> experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
> stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
> all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
> sailed).

Are you related to JAXAshby? Your reading comprehension is a bit dim.

At least two people told you that they had indeed seen them, including seeing
them sailing. Is real life good enough for you?

DSK

In that case.... he wins! (get the logic?)

"Scott Vernon" > wrote in message
...
> Not any more. I think AOL said he couldn't play anymore.
>
> Scotty
>
> "Jonathan Ganz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Bob wins. You know that.
> >
> > "Scott Vernon" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > So , I win?
> > >
> > >
> > > "Bobsprit" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > None of those boats can do what the Mac can.>>>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Let's not turn this into a silly debate. We all know what the Mac26x
> is
> > > and
> > > > that a great many buyers are probably never fully aware of how poor
a
> > boat
> > > it
> > > > really is.
> > > > True, I've only been aboard two and only spoke to three different
> > owners,
> > > but
> > > > none of them were overly pleased with the boat. I'm sure some people
> > love
> > > them,
> > > > just like my dad loved his AMC Pacer. But he never thought it was
> really
> > a
> > > > "good" car.
> > > >
> > > > RB
> > >
> >
> >
>

I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?

> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:45 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
wrote:
>
> >I see your math is no better than your English.
> >
>
>
> You are right! $30k would probably get you at least 15 or more Sidelmanns
in
> today's market. They sure aren't ever going to go UP in value.
>
> BB
>
> >
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:
> >>
> >> >But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
> >> >of money to you, Jax?>>>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....
> >> >
> >> >A J30 and a J24
> >> >Two Pearson 30s
> >> >A C&C 30 late model
> >> >A Catalina 30 late 80's
> >> >A Bristol 29.5
> >> >
> >> >And so on....
> >> >
> >> >RB
> >>
> >> or an even dozen Sidelmanns!
> >>
> >> BB
>

Doug.. let him buy the damn thing. One learns best from experience.

"DSK" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Cate wrote:
>
> > After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
> > one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
> > experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
> > stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
> > all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
> > sailed).
>
> Are you related to JAXAshby? Your reading comprehension is a bit dim.
>
> At least two people told you that they had indeed seen them, including
seeing
> them sailing. Is real life good enough for you?
>
> DSK
>

I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
think it'll go up in value?>>>


C&Cs have, in fact, risen in value since the company's new incarnation took
flight.

RB

Thank you. Nice looking boat.

SV

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:09:41 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
said:
>
> >I know it's a Candjun boat, but what does CS stand for?
>
> Canadian Sailing.
>
>
> Dave
> S/V Good Fortune
> CS27

I kinda doubt that they've exceeded their original cost in today's dollars.

"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
> think it'll go up in value?>>>
>
>
> C&Cs have, in fact, risen in value since the company's new incarnation
took
> flight.
>
> RB

<<<After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively,>>>>

That alone should tell you something.


S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

I kinda doubt that they've exceeded their original cost in today's dollars.>>

All I know is that they cost more now than they did 6 years ago on the used
market. In general I find C&Cs to be overpriced.

RB

DSK wrote:
> Jim Cate wrote:
>
>
>>After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
>>one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any real
>>experience with or knowledge about the 26M Model; and (2) This doesn't
>>stop most responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me abpit
>>all the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
>>sailed).
>
>
> Are you related to JAXAshby? Your reading comprehension is a bit dim.
>
> At least two people told you that they had indeed seen them, including seeing
> them sailing. Is real life good enough for you?
>
> DSK
>

DSK,

You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:

After reading the numerous responses to my note, I conclude that: (1) No
one has sailed the new 26M extensively, and no one so far has any REAL
EXPERIENCE with or knowledge of the 26M MODEL; and (2) This doesn't stop
MOST responders from confidently and dogmatically telling me all about
the shortcomings of the 26M (which they have never seen, much less
sailed). In contrast, those I have talked with elsewhere who HAVE
actually sailed and motored the boat are quite impressed with it

DSK, note in particular the word "most" in the above sentence. Also note
my further statement, that you didn't quote, expressing apprecation for
the helpful information provided by some on the ng. (Incidentally, you
can get reading glasses at most pharmacies these days for under $20.)

Jim

Jim

I think the guy is bi-polar just like the boat he is asking about.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

SAIL LOCO wrote:
> I think the guy is bi-polar just like the boat he is asking about.

The funny thing is, he came here to ask advice (more than once
actually), and is walking away thinking it's somebody else who's the
dummy in this picture.

DSK

You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:>>>


Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon tire
of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any of
it seriously.
The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly, cheap
and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was aboard
a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told it
could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A 3rd?
Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design limits
too steep for my blood.
Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While it may
be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are downright
offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously think
you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.

Best of Luck,

Robert B
C&C 32, Alien
NY

What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably bring
today.>>>


I know of two Siedlemann 30s that sold for 4 and 7K. The one for 4K was
actually pretty clean and had new electronics. The one for 7K had deck problems
($$) after a few years that left her high and dry. She's at Harlem YC if anyone
wants her. They are nearly impossible to sell. There's a larger model at
Styvesant Yacht club (33 or 34?) that simply can't be sold.

RB

What
did your Cal20 go for new? What would it resonably sell for today? >>>


The Cal20 is a bargain basement boat, but it's also a minor classic that
deserves some respect, I think. It's value is well beyond it's cost and Cal was
a good builder much of the time.

RB

On 02 Mar 2004 00:15:41 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

This could be considered a classic definition of "Damning with Faint
Praise"
>I still prefer your boat to the Hunter, but I can certainly see the DS appeal.
>Are you all set for the new season?
Got a lot still to do. About a dozen technical items and then cleanup,
wax and paint. If the weather cooperates, I'll splash 1st week of
April.

The head project is finished. I rented a special electric hose end
heater from Sealand to facilitate the instalation of their "Odorsafe"
hose. Between that and barbless fittings, an impossible job was made
possible.
>
>RB

This could be considered a classic definition of "Damning with Faint
Praise"
>I still prefer your boat to the Hunter, but I can certainly see the DS appeal.

>Are you all set for the new season?>>>


Not at all. I don't really care for the Hunter line and probably would never
buy one. BUT...I think the newer boats have made a big jump up in quality and
have Beneteau and Catalina scrambling. Still, I rather have a Catalina.
Beneteau slaps boats together and I would sooner own a Siedlemann.
I have a nice new dodger coming for Alien and a Zip-On awning. I didn't go for
the bimini because it looked awful in the pics and sketches. Other than making
a new hatchboard, putting in a new depth sounder and a little teak work...all
set to go!

RB

The new reformed & warned "Bobsprit" > wrote
>
>
> Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon
tire
> of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
> Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any
of
> it seriously.

Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.



> The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly,
cheap
> and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are.


Yet they are the best selling sailboat in history.


> I was aboard
> a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
> anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat.


You could tell this at the boat show?

Hey stupid, don't you know what I paid? Everybody else does. Do a Google,
if you're capable. And while you're at it, learn how to use a spell check.

Scotty

> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:39:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
>
> wrote:
>
> >I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
> >think it'll go up in value?
> >
>
> My boat model's average retail is slightly higher today than the original
> selling price... And don't worry about today's dollar versus 1986 dollars.
> During those years, I've taken equity in the form of use out of the boat
that
> more than makes up for inflation. Nobody goes sailing to save money,
anyway.
>
> What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably
bring
> today. Don't forget to factor in that Scotty probably paid too much for
it. What
> did your Cal20 go for new? What would it resonably sell for today?
>
> BB
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:45 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> >I see your math is no better than your English.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> You are right! $30k would probably get you at least 15 or more
Sidelmanns
> >in
> >> today's market. They sure aren't ever going to go UP in value.
> >>
> >> BB
> >>
> >> >
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
> >> >> >of money to you, Jax?>>>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....
> >> >> >
> >> >> >A J30 and a J24
> >> >> >Two Pearson 30s
> >> >> >A C&C 30 late model
> >> >> >A Catalina 30 late 80's
> >> >> >A Bristol 29.5
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And so on....
> >> >> >
> >> >> >RB
> >> >>
> >> >> or an even dozen Sidelmanns!
> >> >>
> >> >> BB
> >>
> >
>

sniff, sniff, smells like a troll.........better be careful bob.

SV

"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably
bring
> today.>>>
>
>
> I know of two Siedlemann 30s that sold for 4 and 7K. The one for 4K was
> actually pretty clean and had new electronics. The one for 7K had deck
problems
> ($$) after a few years that left her high and dry. She's at Harlem YC if
anyone
> wants her. They are nearly impossible to sell. There's a larger model at
> Styvesant Yacht club (33 or 34?) that simply can't be sold.
>
> RB

sniff, sniff, smells like a troll.........better be careful bob.>>


Sorry, Scotty. When it comes to the Siedlemann's, the "truth" may sound like a
troll, but it sadly isn't.
I'm glad you're happy with your boat. I still think you'd have done well to
listen to the comments on the boat which pointed out that the line was poorly
regarded.
Maybe you have a "good one" and I certainly hope so. If you're seeking a larger
version of your boat, contact me direct. The one on City Island has been
sitting for years, unwanted. My J24 sailing friend, seeking a larger boat,
inquired about it and EVERYONE at the club warned her away from Siedlemanns.
They are not free or ultra cheap for no reason, Scotty.

RB

Hey stupid, don't you know what I paid? Everybody else does. >>>


Why should he know what you paid for your boat? Odd.


RB

Are you getting the canvas from your friend who never showed up to
give me a quote? Tell him he missed out on about 20 k worth of
business. A fellow showed up from Seagate, NJ and wrote up 2 full
cockpit enclosures, 2 biminis and 2 dodgers.


On 02 Mar 2004 13:25:20 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

> This could be considered a classic definition of "Damning with Faint
>Praise"
>>I still prefer your boat to the Hunter, but I can certainly see the DS appeal.
>
>>Are you all set for the new season?>>>
>
>
>Not at all. I don't really care for the Hunter line and probably would never
>buy one. BUT...I think the newer boats have made a big jump up in quality and
>have Beneteau and Catalina scrambling. Still, I rather have a Catalina.
>Beneteau slaps boats together and I would sooner own a Siedlemann.
>I have a nice new dodger coming for Alien and a Zip-On awning. I didn't go for
>the bimini because it looked awful in the pics and sketches. Other than making
>a new hatchboard, putting in a new depth sounder and a little teak work...all
>set to go!
>
>RB
>

> a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
> anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat.


You could tell this at the boat show?>>>


So, by this you mean that YOU think the Mac is a "good" sailboat and powerboat.
Glad you think so.

RB

> and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are.


Yet they are the best selling sailboat in history.>>

Gilligan's Island, CHIPS, Pet Rocks, Dr. Pepper, Jerry Springer, Kia and Paris
Hilton are all big sellers too.
Me thinks it's the same group of "buyers" for the Mac.

RB

> Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any
of
> it seriously.

Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.>>

That's in the past. There are only a few trollers left in this NG now. I was
not "warned by AOL" or contacted by them in any way. I just got stunningly
bored with it all; the same insults day after day. It was enough already.

RB

You see that funny little upside down hook looking thing at the end of my
sentence? That means it was a QUESTION, not a statement.

SV



"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> > a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
> > anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat.
>
>
> You could tell this at the boat show?>>>
>
>
> So, by this you mean that YOU think the Mac is a "good" sailboat and
powerboat.
> Glad you think so.
>
> RB

this is killing you, isn't it?


"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> sniff, sniff, smells like a troll.........better be careful bob.>>
>
>
> Sorry, Scotty. When it comes to the Siedlemann's, the "truth" may sound
like a
> troll, but it sadly isn't.
> I'm glad you're happy with your boat. I still think you'd have done well
to
> listen to the comments on the boat which pointed out that the line was
poorly
> regarded.
> Maybe you have a "good one" and I certainly hope so. If you're seeking a
larger
> version of your boat, contact me direct. The one on City Island has been
> sitting for years, unwanted. My J24 sailing friend, seeking a larger boat,
> inquired about it and EVERYONE at the club warned her away from
Siedlemanns.
> They are not free or ultra cheap for no reason, Scotty.
>
> RB

this is killing you, isn't it?>>>


????


RB

Are you getting the canvas from your friend who never showed up to
give me a quote?>>>

That guy was good for deals, but really unreliable time-wise. He offered me a
complete dodger for 500 bucks, but then wasn't even sure he could get it to me
before this spring! He's a good guy, but way overextended and a poor business
man. Too bad because he does nice work. He made a dodger for catalina with SS
frame, grab handles, zip out windows and even a built in cockpit light for 700
bucks.
My ebay sales worked out to make a deal with a local canvas guy who does work
for the City Island yards. I'm basically paying nothing for the dodger. I'll
let you know how well it turns out.
Let me know if you need a set of oars..I'll give you a nice 6 foot pair for 20
bucks!

RB

So you're not going to be a dickhead anymore?

SV

"Bobsprit" > wrote in message
...
> > Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any
> of
> > it seriously.
>
> Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.>>
>
> That's in the past. There are only a few trollers left in this NG now. I
was
> not "warned by AOL" or contacted by them in any way. I just got stunningly
> bored with it all; the same insults day after day. It was enough already.
>
> RB

"Bobsprit" > wrote
>
> Gilligan's Island, CHIPS, Pet Rocks, Dr. Pepper, Jerry Springer, Kia and
Paris
> Hilton are all my favorites.

>
> RB

So you're not going to be a dickhead anymore?>>



As much as it will dissapoint some people here, the character of Bobsprit is
retired. I'm married and soon to be a father. I have a deal set for a sailing
book. There are only so many ways to kick a dead horse and I think I covered
most of them.
Need any oars, Scotty? 20 bucks to Alt.Sailing.Asa members.

RB

Two piece or solid? 6'?

On 02 Mar 2004 13:56:39 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

>Are you getting the canvas from your friend who never showed up to
>give me a quote?>>>
>
>That guy was good for deals, but really unreliable time-wise. He offered me a
>complete dodger for 500 bucks, but then wasn't even sure he could get it to me
>before this spring! He's a good guy, but way overextended and a poor business
>man. Too bad because he does nice work. He made a dodger for catalina with SS
>frame, grab handles, zip out windows and even a built in cockpit light for 700
>bucks.
>My ebay sales worked out to make a deal with a local canvas guy who does work
>for the City Island yards. I'm basically paying nothing for the dodger. I'll
>let you know how well it turns out.
>Let me know if you need a set of oars..I'll give you a nice 6 foot pair for 20
>bucks!
>
>RB

Bobsprit wrote:
> You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:>>>
>
>
> Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon tire
> of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
> Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any of
> it seriously.
> The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly, cheap
> and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was aboard
> a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
> anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told it
> could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A 3rd?
> Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design limits
> too steep for my blood.
> Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While it may
> be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are downright
> offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously think
> you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.
>
> Best of Luck,
>
> Robert B
> C&C 32, Alien
> NY

Robert,
In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
for some "logical" and "rational" advice.

I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.

Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
(1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
Features that I think would be important are: roller reefing and lines
led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
sailing capabilities?

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.

Jim

sniff, sniff.......kinda funny how 'Jim' and 'Bob' use the same phrases and
misspell the same words.

SV

"Jim Cate" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Bobsprit wrote:
> > You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said
was:>>>
> >
> >
> > Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they
soon tire
> > of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature
of
> > Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any of
> > it seriously.
> > The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be
ugly, cheap
> > and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was
aboard
> > a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
> > anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told
it
> > could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A
3rd?
> > Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design
limits
> > too steep for my blood.
> > Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While
it may
> > be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are
downright
> > offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously
think
> > you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.
> >
> > Best of Luck,
> >
> > Robert B
> > C&C 32, Alien
> > NY
>
> Robert,
> In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
> the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
> discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
> boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
> about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
> resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
> for some "logical" and "rational" advice.
>
> I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
> boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
> intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
> trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
> our area. As mentioned previously, if I bought a fixed-keel boat I would
> plan to leave it with a local charter company to minimize the time spent
> in maintaining and checking on the boat. I wouldn't expect to get a
> positive cash flow from the rentals, but my CPA mentioned that there may
> be some tax benefits from such an arrangement. - It's largely a matter
> of minimizing marina fees and being able to leave the boat with someone
> who would keep an eye on it. I plan to meet with the charterer this
> week and then check out some of the used boats they might accept.
>
> Boats offered for sale in this area in the $20,000 - $30,000 price range
> include 30 to 33-foot: Catalinas, S-2s, (older) Pearsons, Cals, C&Cs,
> Siedlemanns, Hunters (nasty word - sorry), Columbias, Ericsons, and
> several others that I wasn't familiar with. These boats vary in age
> (1970 - 1985) and condition, but many of the ads claim that they have
> been carefully maintained and upgraded. For more money, there are some
> Tartans, O'Days, Sabres, Island Packets, etc. Although I would
> obviously need to check out the condition and equipment of the boats and
> obtain a survey if I were seriously considering one, do you have any
> suggestions as to what to look for in this price range and venue?
> Features that I think would be important are: roller reefing and lines
> led aft; wheel steering (required by the charter company); adequate sail
> inventory in good condition; diesel engine in good condition; suitable
> electronics; clean interior and recent bottom treatment; through-hull
> valves, sump pumps, etc., in either new or good condition; no evidence
> of water in the bilge; fun, fast, and exciting to sail, etc. For the
> Houston weather, air conditioning would be nice, although few of the
> boats also have an on-board generator to power it at anchor. Also, what
> about one of the retractable-extendable keel boats, or the shoal draft
> boats, for our shallow bay waters? - Would this mess up the offshore
> sailing capabilities?
>
> I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
> under these conditions and in this price range.
>
> Jim
>

I would appreciate knowing what you and others recommend looking for
under these conditions and in this price range.>>

Jim, as you can see there are a LOT of used boats around. I tend to follow the
idea that buying a reasonably respectable brand is a good idea. Without that
you could end up stuck with her.
My favorite used boats: Pearson, C&C, Tartan, bristol, Catalina and quite a few
more makes, models and odd designs. You need to get aboard and see what "fits"
and what pleases your eye first and foremost. Learn to read the numbers. Sail
area/Disp. and PHRF ratings are a good initial inidcator for how a design will
treat you under sail. Above all, take your time. There are always compromises,
but you can shave them down. If financial limits have you looking at lesser
boats, perhaps it's worth saving a bit longer. You never know when a magic deal
will float along. My wife and I sold our Pearson 30 when we were married. We
were going to wait 2 or 3 years and then buy a big boat. Then I had the chance
to buy a C&C 32 for 16K. So, while waiting for the "big" boat plan, we still
get to sail a nice boat. I think the watchword is patience. If you're in a
hurry the wrong boat may find YOU! That's happened to at least 2 people in this
group.

RB

No, but a spell checker would have caught 'resonably'.

AND fix your word wrap!

Scotty



> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:27:09 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
> wrote:
>
> >Hey stupid, don't you know what I paid? Everybody else does. Do a
Google,
> >if you're capable. And while you're at it, learn how to use a spell
check.
> >
>
> Spell checkers, like the rest of the world, don't care enough about
> Siedelmannnn's to give a rats ass if you spell their name correctly.
> They aren't worth the bother. Owning one, you must know that without
> me having to tell you. What did you pay to buy your Siddelmunn? The
> answer is that you are STILL paying for it!
>
> BB
>
>
>
> >Scotty
> >
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:39:33 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I've forgotten... what kind of boat do you own? Do you
> >> >think it'll go up in value?
> >> >
> >>
> >> My boat model's average retail is slightly higher today than the
original
> >> selling price... And don't worry about today's dollar versus 1986
dollars.
> >> During those years, I've taken equity in the form of use out of the
boat
> >that
> >> more than makes up for inflation. Nobody goes sailing to save money,
> >anyway.
> >>
> >> What did Porta Scotty's Siedlemann go for new? What would it reasonably
> >bring
> >> today. Don't forget to factor in that Scotty probably paid too much for
> >it. What
> >> did your Cal20 go for new? What would it resonably sell for today?
> >>
> >> BB
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:52:45 -0500, "Scott Vernon"
>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >I see your math is no better than your English.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> You are right! $30k would probably get you at least 15 or more
> >Sidelmanns
> >> >in
> >> >> today's market. They sure aren't ever going to go UP in value.
> >> >>
> >> >> BB
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> On 01 Mar 2004 23:15:48 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >But maybe $30K is a horrendous lot
> >> >> >> >of money to you, Jax?>>>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >It's a horendous amount for THAT boat. 30K can buy....
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >A J30 and a J24
> >> >> >> >Two Pearson 30s
> >> >> >> >A C&C 30 late model
> >> >> >> >A Catalina 30 late 80's
> >> >> >> >A Bristol 29.5
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >And so on....
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >RB
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> or an even dozen Sidelmanns!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> BB
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
>

Your logic eludes me.


> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:25:22 -0500, "Scott Vernon" >
> wrote:
>
> >The new reformed & warned "Bobsprit" > wrote
> >>
> >>
> >> Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they
soon
> >tire
> >> of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature
of
> >> Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take
any
> >of
> >> it seriously.
> >
> >Which you are 85% responsible for yourself.
> >
> >
> >
> >> The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be
ugly,
> >cheap
> >> and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are.
> >
> >
> >Yet they are the best selling sailboat in history.
> >
> >
>
> Yes, and to you, McDonalds is the worlds best restaurant for the same
> reason.
>
> BB

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:14:52 -0600, Jim Cate > wrote:

>
>
>Bobsprit wrote:
>> You need to read the notes you respond to more carefully. What I said was:>>>
>>
>>
>> Jim, while this group can offer valid and often helpful advice, they soon tire
>> of a subject and turn to school yard in-fighting. It's been the nature of
>> Alt.Sailing.Asa for some years now. It's up to you if you want to take any of
>> it seriously.
>> The Mac line of power sailors is generally considered by MANY to be ugly, cheap
>> and poor sailing boats. They are also expensive for what they are. I was aboard
>> a new M at the AC Boat show (I didn't even know it wasn't called the 26X
>> anymore). It was a laughable excuse for a power or sailboat. I was told it
>> could do nearly 25 knots, though 3 foot chop would cut that by a 3rd. A 3rd?
>> Such a loss of performance from moderate chop is indicative of design limits
>> too steep for my blood.
>> Few people, other than a Mac owner will encourage you to buy one. While it may
>> be the "best" compromise between power and sail, the trade offs are downright
>> offensive to sailors. If you have sailed good sailboats, I seriously think
>> you'll be dissapointed in the Mac and regret buying one.
>>
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Robert B
>> C&C 32, Alien
>> NY
>
>Robert,
>In any event, my notes apparently provide some entertainment value to
>the group, since this seems to be one of the more active current
>discussion topics. I was aware of the general reputation of the Mac
>boats before posting my questions, but I was looking for information
>about the new model, that includes significant mods that may have
>resolved at least some of the limitations of previous models. Looking
>for some "logical" and "rational" advice.
>
>I appreciate your balanced and helpful comments. I'm aware that all
>boats, including the Mac, would entail compromises for my particular
>intended uses in the Galveston-Kemah environment. I'm not settled on a
>trailorable boat, and there are lots of used, larger boats available in
>our area. As mentioned previously